News Half sentence for pleading guilty? Thank god they shelved that idea

[cHodAX]

BBC News - Sentencing reform proposals 'may be shelved'

Was shocked they were even considering this, after the Strangeways program I think alot of people would have protested if half sentences had gone through. It is bad enough that people commiting violet crimes are getting less than 2 years, which is 12 months or less with good behaviour, to lower to a potential 6 months or less would be a complete farce. Luckily they have seen sense, we need to save money but not that badly.

 

[BloodOmen]

piss take isnt it? the justice system is just 1 big joke at the moment, they really need to take their heads out of their arse and start locking people for long stretches rather than the pitiful holidays they get now in a dolled up prison with xbox's and what not.

 

[Job]

Guy in China gets executed for stabbing a cyclist to death he hit with his car in case she tried to claim compensation.
'Seems reasonable to 90% of human beings'
China executes student who stabbed woman to death - Yahoo! News

What would you get here for same offence, probably 6=7 years actual prison time...er what?

 

[Tom]

Prison is an extremely expensive and highly ineffective means of dispensing "justice".

 

[Fafnir]

Well lets take the 3rd strike a bit futher, if you get sentenced for the 3rd time just give them a shot in the back of their head and forget about them, but should not be for minor crime.

 

[Zenith.UK]

Well lets take the 3rd strike a bit futher, if you get sentenced for the 3rd time just give them a shot in the back of their head and forget about them, but should not be for minor crime.

Thank goodness you qualified that at the end!

"Sir, this is your third speeding endorsement. Sentencing guidelines state that I have to now shoot you in the back of the head."

 

[dysfunction]

Prison is an extremely expensive and highly ineffective means of dispensing "justice".

Yes indeed. It doesn't rehabilitate....or deter criminals for that matter.
There are not many other viable options at this point.

 

[Embattle]

Guy in China gets executed for stabbing a cyclist to death he hit with his car in case she tried to claim compensation.
'Seems reasonable to 90% of human beings'
China executes student who stabbed woman to death - Yahoo! News

What would you get here for same offence, probably 6=7 years actual prison time...er what?

I suspect some what longer as it was murder.

Current policy is being dictated by statistics and a lack of prison room, not by what is best for the public.

 

[old.Tohtori]

'Seems reasonable to 90% of human beings'

This is a funny thing, because peoples(might need a ' there) sense of justice and people'sp) sense of law is quite different. Capital punishment, for example, only works if it suits individual persons thoughts, otherwise it's a bad idea, or a perfectly rasonable thing to do.

Tell someone that someone might have stabbed a child; they go bonkers and want the bugger hung right away. Tell someone their family member might have stabbed someone; they demand evidence, proof and even then hanging them is cruel and unusual.

People, bah, they don't know jack sh*t about what punishment fits what.

 

[mooSe_]

This is a funny thing, because peoples(might need a ' there) sense of justice and people'sp) sense of law is quite different. Capital punishment, for example, only works if it suits individual persons thoughts, otherwise it's a bad idea, or a perfectly rasonable thing to do.

Tell someone that someone might have stabbed a child; they go bonkers and want the bugger hung right away. Tell someone their family member might have stabbed someone; they demand evidence, proof and even then hanging them is cruel and unusual.

People, bah, they don't know jack sh*t about what punishment fits what.

I kinda agree; people let their emotions get in the way of justice too much. "Some people just don't deserve to live!" is something I hear often, but the person saying it never seems to have some clear rules for who does and doesn't deserve to live; instead it usually seems to be based on how much of an emotional reaction they get to each crime. A justice system should be based on more than public outrage and capital punishment is stupid if it's just for revenge so that people who read about it in the paper can feel good about it.
Half sentence for pleading guilty seems pretty stupid to me. They do need to do something about the prison system but letting criminals out early because we can't afford to keep them doesn't sound like a good idea.

 

[Job]

I suspect some what longer as it was murder.

Current policy is being dictated by statistics and a lack of prison room, not by what is best for the public.

Maybe you don't keep up on sentencing in the UK (better things to do), but fifteen years is the max you'll do unless it's pre arranged or you're quite obviously insane and will be kept locked up till you're not (Or can convince you're not).
Half for good behaviour and you have 6-7 years, which is the norm.
Two bouncers by us chased a young lad who verbally abused them around the town then stabbed him to death, they got 8 years each and were back on the streets, 3 years later.
In China they would be executed.

 

[Nate]

I think we should turn The Isle of White in to a prison island.

YouTube - ‪Escape From New York Original 1981 Trailer‬‏

 

[cHodAX]

Prison is an extremely expensive and highly ineffective means of dispensing "justice".

And yet there is no viable alternative.

 

[soze]

Make prisoners work. I know of a kid from the council estate where I grew up who has gone to prison as it is easier than living on the street. If they cant do something productive have them move bags of mud from one side of the yard to another. Anyone who refuses gets nothing but the minimum legal food and nothing bud a bed in the cell.

 

[cHodAX]

Make prisoners work. I know of a kid from the council estate where I grew up who has gone to prison as it is easier than living on the street. If they cant do something productive have them move bags of mud from one side of the yard to another. Anyone who refuses gets nothing but the minimum legal food and nothing bud a bed in the cell.

Even the ones that do work often go on to reoffend mate, hell many of the ones who take the educational programs reoffend as well. The statistics don't lie on this one, too many people spend thier lives looking for the easy answers which often leads to commiting crime rather than grinding it out and working 8 hours a day for the next 40 years.

The problem is really one of mindset and we have always failed at changing that, people see things on TV, aspire to have them and will do anything to get them. Also you have the kids see violence on TV and all around them when growing up, it becomes the norm to them and you end up with another generation of violent young people who will end up in prison. Until society addresses these problems (and it won't because it means taking big business on) we will continue to need a prison system, even if it is just an epic fail and waste of money. Better to waste the money and have them off the street, than save the money and be at the mercy of thieves and thugs on a daily basis. Anyone who disagrees should go spend a month in South Africa, experience it and listen to the stories. That country is a prime example of what happens when too many criminals are on the loose, serious violent crime and murder are skyhigh.

 

[MYstIC G]

And yet there is no viable alternative.

There is, it's just not palatable.

 

[cHodAX]

There is, it's just not palatable.

That is why I said not viable. The public at large won't buy it because eventually someone they know ends up with a bullet in the head, hands removed or 50 massive scars on their back and the mental damage that goes with it.

 

[soze]

While I think a life for a life should come back for cases that do not rely on a witness testimony I don't think you need to cut hands off ect. Prison just needs to be made into a really horrible place to be. At the moment its comfortable. The tent city jail has the right idea find everything they like and ban it. No Tea or Coffee no Smoking. You get the least food legally allowed and if you don't like it don't come back. Add to that 8 hours a day of manual labour and a rock hard bed, and you have somewhere people will not want to be.

I do not know anything about rehabilitation and if this would be worse. But currently we send criminals somewhere where they get 3 hot meals a warm bed as well as tv / radio. We then put them together with other criminals so they can discuss how to commit crimes better and then we give them a free gym just so they can get big and scary for release time.

 

[cHodAX]

While I think a life for a life should come back for cases that do not rely on a witness testimony I don't think you need to cut hands off ect. Prison just needs to be made into a really horrible place to be. At the moment its comfortable. The tent city jail has the right idea find everything they like and ban it. No Tea or Coffee no Smoking. You get the least food legally allowed and if you don't like it don't come back. Add to that 8 hours a day of manual labour and a rock hard bed, and you have somewhere people will not want to be.

I do not know anything about rehabilitation and if this would be worse. But currently we send criminals somewhere where they get 3 hot meals a warm bed as well as tv / radio. We then put them together with other criminals so they can discuss how to commit crimes better and then we give them a free gym just so they can get big and scary for release time.

That is much like South African prison. You know the result? Much more murder. Criminals kill victims just so that they can not be identified or testified against. As I am sure I have mentioned before, 3 years ago my friends father who lives in Durban was shot on his own driveway because he saw the guy trying to steal his car and went outside to tell him to fuck off. He didn't shoot Phil because he swore at him, it was because he had seen his face and could tell the police. To him murdering an old man was much more preferable to 2 years hard time in a prison like you described.

 

[soze]

That is much like South African prison. You know the result? Much more murder. Criminals kill victims just so that they can not be identified or testified against. As I am sure I have mentioned before, 3 years ago my friends father who lives in Durban was shot on his own driveway because he saw the guy trying to steal his car and went outside to tell him to fuck off. He didn't shoot Phil because he swore at him, it was because he had seen his face and could tell the police. To him murdering an old man was much more preferable to 2 years hard time in a prison like you described.

That's savage And your right not something I would want over here.

 

[Tom]

And yet there is no viable alternative.

Locking up the mentally ill or drug-addled is not by any means "viable".

 

[cHodAX]

Locking up the mentally ill or drug-addled is not by any means "viable".

I agree, what is the alternative though?

 

[Helme]

That is why I said not viable. The public at large won't buy it because eventually someone they know ends up with a bullet in the head, hands removed or 50 massive scars on their back and the mental damage that goes with it.

That's probably because what you're proposing is revenge, not justice and any rational being should be against eye for an eye. It doesn't work as a deterrent, in fact I'd argue that no sort of punishment works to deter crime, you have to go to the root cause of it and in most cases that is poverty and lack of options.

When you slash education, remove hundreds of thousands of jobs and then deny aid unless they've worked previously crime starts looking as a viable alternative(or if you're a woman, teenage pregnancy starts looking good).

Sure there's always going to be a few bad eggs, but I sincerely doubt that everyone in prison currently are there because they're evil.

 

[Calaen]

Lets just kill the evil ones then!

 

[Job]

Actually there is an alternative, and it's one that will happen eventually.
We will take the step, with increasing evidence from brain studies, that
people are simply driven to whatever behavior from the structure of their brains.
At the same time we will be able to identify the 'problem' areas and neutralize them, following that of course everyone will need a medical to prove 'not insane' as in Homer Simpson, a mass lobotomizing will occur to prevent the excesses of behavior.
You will not be held responsible for your actions anymore than someone with Parkinsons is blamed for shaking.
It may seem all very Sky-fi, but we are very near to understanding the main bits allready
and what is handy to know today is compulsory tomorrow.

 

[Lamp]

They were discussing this at length on the radio today. A number of ex-cons phoned in. They all said they'd rather do a short term inside than do community. People were phoning up saying 10 years should be 10 years. Others said jail terms are simply not long enough. Most people were against any form of reductive sentence for guilty pleas. Others were saying, instead of giving someone a 20 yr sentence & letting them out after 10, make it 30, and let them out after 15.

 

[Tom]

I agree, what is the alternative though?

Spending money and dealing with the problem, perhaps? More money for local institutions to deal with mental illness? A sensible debate on this country's failed drugs policy?

Fuck the Daily Mail readers.

 

[Scouse]

Prison is an extremely expensive and highly ineffective means of dispensing "justice".

I agree Tom.

I'd go further and say the rule of law is a joke and that our economic system is responsible for 90%+ of our crime.

Lock up capitalism if you must.

 

[MYstIC G]

It doesn't work as a deterrent, in fact I'd argue that no sort of punishment works to deter crime, you have to go to the root cause of it and in most cases that is poverty and lack of options.

The root cause of crime is opportunity. People do these things because they think they can get away with them. By way of example, if somebody insulted me and I bashed their face in, that wouldn't be financially motivated (poverty) or a lack of options (insulting them back).

That is the problem with the current system is that more and more people get more lenient reprimands so they effectively feel that they can commit crimes and effectively get away with them.

 

[old.Tohtori]

The root cause of crime is opportunity. People do these things because they think they can get away with them.

And a whole lot do, not really helping to deter from it.