Group Purge.

[kiranian-]

It Sucks mystic have made a big mistake in giving one realm that how excatly does it work ?




Kiranian

 

[lofff]

yes and so mythic must suck for the following:
-giv 1 realm SoS.
-giv 1 realm BoF.
-giv 1 realm AEstun.
etc etc etc

 

[Hit ^_^]

when a full group of albs are mezzed boff aint gonna help :>

 

[old.Charonel]

and when your all unmezzed, getting beaten on by an immense number of tanks, group purge isnt really gonna win the day either

 

[Tigerius]

When these tanks survive well over 30secs with 3 people beating on them, BoF is only going to delay your loss.

 

[Novamir]

and GP can in some situations be completely useless, because you're all gonna die anyway. SoS however can save people from zergs unlike any other RA.

 

[brommix]

You Hibs are retards as usual

 

[Lessurl]

Nice brommix, very PC.

 

[Glottis_Xanadu]

SoS saves your groups butt maybe, while GP wins the battle.
Find that an important difference. Imagine that a group of Hibs is surprised (imagine I said) and a sorc actually gets off an aoe mezz. Druid purges, Bard presses instant win button, and Albs die. Hibs get shitload of rp's.
Alb group is walking about, see a bard, are instant aoe mezzed before even saying "inc". They now use SoS to try to get away, but now are mezzed 30 seconds further down the alley, with the Hib group right behind them. Hib group wins.
Yes, lets compare BoF. I must have grouped with the wrong clerics, cause somehow no cleric has used it so far. Not sure why you are giving BoF so much credit. Yes, SoS is nice, but somehow all Albions want the instant aoe mezz along with group purge. Not sure why though
Regards, Glottis

 

[old.Odysseus]

here we go again ....

well im gonna chip in 2 cents anyway

to the original question:
GP is a druid RA that purges all negative effects from a whole group, 30 min timer.

the reason for all the whining is that if a druid with GP is grouped with a bard, you do not get muc effect from doing CC on them, as the CC+instamezz combo will make sure the hib group has initiative.
Thus far it is indisputable (assuming the hib group is somewhat awake and not complete mofos).

SoS is the counter to this CC - the minstrel fires it and you can move while mezzed/rooted/stunned, effectively giving you the option to run away with minst speed.

From my perspective, the one most important feature of SoS is that slam will have no further effect on me. I can run out of range of the tanks. If purge is up i can run out of range and do some extra CC - which will probably be countered with the single purge. I can ofc also nuke - which is often the case

One thing that I have considered;
If the bard has already fired his instamezz, why still have him as primary target? Do the druid and nukers instead.

Long talk.....

 

[old.Nol]

It Sucks mystic have made a big mistake in giving one realm that how excatly does it work ?

How can you determine it sucks if you obviously have no idea how it works and what it does?

You Hibs are retards as usual

tosspot

-----------
This has been covered a million times, neither side will agree. We have an overpowered RA found on a class that might be found in one out of four groups. You have two overpowered RA's, found on 2 classes in every group.

SoS is faster then minstrel speed, even twisting I can't keep up.

 

[old.Pempula]

Again with determination for some classes and high magic resistances, the mezzes will not be the deciding factor for battles, not always anyway. The new changes for the healing classes seem interesting too. GP is good and useful, but definitely not 'uber' in any way. It does have a 30 min timer, many people have single purges however (and albs probably blame GP for all screwed up mezzes they get...).

 

[old.Tzeentch]

'insta-win' is on a 10minute timer.

it's not too hard for me as a bard to get single purge and do the same, i have no need for GP, it's just nice for the others..
as i have remove mezz, i also, unlike most of the bards ive seen, acutally use this ability..

insta mezz also has a really shitty length.. again, optimal group composition, the hib group will win, yes, but GP has fuck all to do with it.

in the past entire week, i've had GP used in my group exactly ZERO times.

you guys are acting like insta mezz and GP are on 3sec timers

in the past entire week, i've been ae stunned over 5 times

....

and then, just as the druid is about to use GP in that cae, the healer puts out mezz

and we're screwed

...

the healer from mid didnt use a single RA there, and he can outplay GP

see, i just dont get your point.. GP isn't all that uber, seriously.. i've played without it a lot of times and won a lot of times too..

 

[Glottis_Xanadu]

Hehe, not many albs like the mids instant aoe stun either...
So lets not get them also involved in the conversation.
I agree that some people might have purge, but purge is only of use if you are not left alone. If my tank would get purge, he would still get slaughtered. A sorc with purge might be able to turn the table by aoe mezzing the other group.
Regards, Glottis

 

[old.Nol]

mezz - gp - root

that simple.

 

[old.Wildfire]

Well, I've played in alb groups with BOF and SOS, and I've played a bard with insta AE mezz, in a group with grp purge. In all honesty I don't think there's as much of a balance issue here as people make out. I think insta CC should be given to all three realms, not just hib and mid. However, a combination of BOF and SOS at the same time is an absoloute killer. An alb group with both running at once (not hard to co-ordinate) basically gets a free 30 second rampage to do as much damage as possible. Group purge is difficult to time correctly because if you use it for just a couple of people, it's wasted, but usually by the time you can see you need it, the enemy tanks and casters are laying into you and you're in trouble anyway.

Ways Albs can help themselves

- Determination RA (can't put a high enough value on this)
- PURGE RA - ALL hibs RR4 and above seem to have this RA. I hear all sorts of excuses that albs give for not having this, but imo it's an absoloutely essential tank and healer purchase, even if wizards, infiltrators e.t.c. may find it of less use.
- omgz stay awake - I know the portal system puts people to sleep, but once you get to emain you should not be looking away from the screen, going AFK for the toilet or whatever while your group is roaming. If you need to, get them to pull over and hide somewhere, otherwise you're going to get them all killed.
- play spin the camera - situational awareness = victory, have chased down many many many groups from all three realms who have clearly had no idea my group was behind.
- always have a tank or crowd controller drive - plus whoever is driving is automatically the group's leader. If they charge, you charge. If they run, you run. Always stay close to the driver, you go wherever he/she goes.
- dont loiter in high traffic areas!!! - "2fg albs amg" "3fg albs amg" "alb zerg amg" "alb zerg bowl" "alb zerg mmg" may not even be people moving around together, but if you will pause for longer than absoloutely necessary (1 min tops) in these areas, you will be jumped, you will not have the initiative, and 9 times out of 10 you will die.

Yes, I've gone off-topic quite drastically, but my point is that while group purge and insta CC are both very powerful tools, there are more problems with the way albs play than with the way abilities and RAs are distributed. These need to be addressed before any RA/specline balancing can even be considered.

 

[old.Nol]

 

[hotrat]

SoS is faster then minstrel speed, even twisting I can't keep up.

SoS is in fact slower than speed song 5, and many minstrels on VNboards are moaning to move it from 200% to 205%

SoS however can save people from zergs unlike any other RA.

Dieing from a zerg aint that bad, just release and (if you have a bard) you can be back in the action in 10 mins. For albs and mids its even quicker usually (hate it when you release to see the mages casting their port spell though ).
Personally i now never use SoS to escape from a situation that i or my group will never win. This is a lot easier to judge if im solo, if a fg with a SB or NS finds me i just let them kill me. Better to save SoS for a situation in which using it might actually gain me some rp.
Group purge must also be hard to use, but if your caught with your pants down and your whole group is mezzed its a nice way to turn the battle around ( a whole group being immune to mezz is hard to fight).

Mythic really needs to encode a way of telling you that a person cannot be mezzed or stunned or rooted. For example you select a Celt, he has been mezzed recently and cannot be mezzed again yet, or even better some kind of on screen indication (zZzZz marks over the head (red for cant be mezzed, white for is mezzed).

 

[old.Pempula]

Originally posted by hotrat

Dieing from a zerg aint that bad, just release and (if you have a bard) you can be back in the action in 10 mins. For albs and mids its even quicker usually (hate it when you release to see the mages casting their port spell though ).

For some strange reason, I would find it a very good thing if porting was totally disallowed with rezz sickness on .

 

[old.Odysseus]

mezz - gp - root

that simple.

You forgot single purge.

That effectively puts hibs in a situation where they have 1 min timer to all the aoe CC we have (root+mezz).
Now try and be the caster that experiences that :/
To be fair I must add this: ofc all purges and gp is not up simultaneously.

And dont try and turn this thread into a 'GP is underpowered and crap'-thread. It is in the top 3 of all class RA's (personally I would say that if I could chose freely from those, I would take GP or BoF).

GP's main force is the ability to take back the initiative in a situation where the enemy has gained it - in conjunction with the instamezz.
It is not so much a matter of the mezz duration as it is of the moment of interruption and hesitation this will cause in the enemys ranks.
It enables the hibs damagedealers to choose their targets before the albs do the same.

I wont start commenting on mid insta aoe stun.

 

[old.Wildfire]

The colour coding for the CC status is a nice idea but how would it work for other things like roots snares and stuns? P.S. also quite disappointed (from a hib POV) at the effective radius of the insta AE mezz. If a whole group is caught by one insta then it's because everyone's on top of each other, and deserve a smacking anyway.

 

[old.Tzeentch]

not saying that ody, i agree its a very good RA, but, it isn't so uber as people make it out to be.. what im saying is, it isnt the reason why hibs win a lot against albs.. it helps a lot if you have it ready, and you are in that situation, but in the case when you dont have a druid, and you are in that same situation, it can still be won.. i've done it countless times, and started to remove mezz on the most important group members, enough to start fighting back..

bit annoyed to see everyone attribute our kills to one RA which I havent even had used in a grp for so long, yet ive been doing so well without.

 

[old.Nol]

This topic is such a dead donkey, if hibs are cc immune, then use SoS to get away from them, and hit them again in 1 minute when they are no longer immune and have no purges. There are hundreds of options, but people never seem to make it past 1, they are so mystified by GP they think that it is the reason for every problem.

I have even seen people moan about GP when infact their mezz was resisted.

We win battles daily without GP, I have no insta aoe, I cast mezz and I cast cure mezz. If my mezz is resisted, I am screwed, I have no secondry form of CC, or a root or snare. You have cure mezz on 2 classes, both minstrel and sorceror, but I have yet to see either one use it.

 

[Tigerius]

First of all Nol it's BS to say that you only have Druids in every fourth group while we have Clerics and Minstrels in every group. The numbers don't go apart that drastically I assure you. Clerics are very necessary, 1 is an utter minimum, so yes not that many go without em, but we're hardly plentiful and usually forced to slave all day in emain. Same goes for Minstrels.

Secondly, saying stuff like "if they GP you use SoS to run away and return in a minute" is downright declaring GP better. The above situation requires Hib group to push a single button, requires the Alb group to push a button, break of combat, make a fast extract and be well beyond Hibs clipping range once the 30secs run out and the mezz stops em dead. The different amounts of effort put in to make full use of them is very drastical. That's the problem, SoS has alot of potential if you sit and think about it and assume the group move under 1 will, in fast paced combat it rarely works out that way and you know that.

Thirdly, a Sorcerer can't cure mezz OR root because a Sorcerer won't live past a Purge. He simply won't be unengaged as soon as there's a resist, purge or GP. Minstrels OTOH do it quite alot I find, if not I tell them to.

 

[old.Nol]

Originally posted by Tigerius
First of all Nol it's BS to say that you only have Druids in every fourth group while we have Clerics and Minstrels in every group. The numbers don't go apart that drastically I assure you. Clerics are very necessary, 1 is an utter minimum, so yes not that many go without em, but we're hardly plentiful and usually forced to slave all day in emain. Same goes for Minstrels.

Secondly, saying stuff like "if they GP you use SoS to run away and return in a minute" is downright declaring GP better. The above situation requires Hib group to push a single button, requires the Alb group to push a button, break of combat, make a fast extract and be well beyond Hibs clipping range once the 30secs run out and the mezz stops em dead. The different amounts of effort put in to make full use of them is very drastical. That's the problem, SoS has alot of potential if you sit and think about it and assume the group move under 1 will, in fast paced combat it rarely works out that way and you know that.

Thirdly, a Sorcerer can't cure mezz OR root because a Sorcerer won't live past a Purge. He simply won't be unengaged as soon as there's a resist, purge or GP. Minstrels OTOH do it quite alot I find, if not I tell them to.

So you telling me you don't have a minstrel and cleric in every group? If that is the case you deserve to die, because it is stupid to leave the PK without either one of those classes. We don't have the numbers to carry a druid out with every group, it is a numerical impossibility, to accomodate, we have heals on 3 other classes, namely wardens, bards and ment's.

In no way I have I admitted that GP is better, quite the contrary I gave you options. It's insane to think that a full group of hibs has synchronised their single purge after the root-gp-mezz option, but still I gave the benefit of the doubt. Complaining that something takes a wee bit of organisation is not a reason to not do it - it is pretty simple to set up a macro /macro SOS /g SOS retreat.

Don't speak rubbsh about a sorc, they have the same survival ratio as bards, no matter what the case, even if bards were the highest HP carriers with the best armour in the game, we cannot survive successive gankage from the tanks. All I ever see is excuses abut how gimped you are and how great GP is, even the thread starter is clueless as to what it is and does.

GP SUCKS! what does it do? It obviously stops you from thinking.

 

[Tigerius]

I always have a Minstrel and Cleric in my groups, partly due to being 1 of them. Most Alb groups wouldn't leave without one. But we do not reliably have 1 L50 high RR Cleric and Minstrel per active Alb group, that's a fact. At some point there will be poor guys in the rear of the zerg without. We've been over this before also, an Alb group needs 5 classes to just get the basic stuff, we can't be so posh as to sit on our asses until we get all of them.

Sorcs same survival rate as Bards is a load of crap, sure Bards get LOTS of attention and if they face a good group they die, but their chances of survival compared to a cloth caster are still immense. Where a Sorc buys LW 2 to sprint in circles, you get it done for free, where a Sorc can buy Toughness and all the best gear in the world you have similar HP/melee absorb without trying and much more when you do. I know you die most battles and that this clouds the facts, but your chances of survival compared to a Sorc is astounding, far enhanced if you get a 6sec Warden.

It's insane to think that a full group of hibs has synchronised their single purge after the root-gp-mezz option

But very realistic to expect an Alb group that AMBUSHED a Hib group to ALL on command break engagement, turn tail and sprint off for 30secs. Lol man, you got double standards.

Just found these statistics on a summary of active RvR classes last week:

Cleric 40
Healer 39
Druid 38

No major discrepancies as far as I can see.

 

[Glottis_Xanadu]

I have to agree with that statement. My Sorc instantly gets some anal sword loving from hibs and mids, and will die extremely fast.. Bards take about 2-3 times as long to kill. Please do not compare me to a Bard, who has a 206% speedsong, and instant mezz, to my 156% speed song, and instant debuffs... (I had to take Wild Arcana to even hope of getting some RP's once in a while ).

 

[Treniel-]

but its Hibs nothing they get is unfair on the other realms! silly people honestly!!!!!! the near 1k nukes, baseline stuns, group purge, morphing tanks, tanks with self buffs and DDs, pets that can nuke threw walls with DD and Snare etc etc don't effect rvr at all you silly people!!!!

no sarcasm meant in this post btw

 

[Chenuba]

To Nol

(quote)
So you telling me you don't have a minstrel and cleric in every group? If that is the case you deserve to die, because it is stupid to leave the PK without either one of those classes. We don't have the numbers to carry a druid out with every group, it is a numerical impossibility, to accomodate, we have heals on 3 other classes, namely wardens, bards and ment's.(quote)

Well you surely show what stupid means quite well.
Some times it's hard even to get a cleric in the group.
A minstrel for every group ???
Most groups move with casterspeed these days, but to get minstrels for every group, fx. on relicraid is just wishful thinking.

Same problem with minstrels and clerics, if they're doing what they're meant to do, people playing them find them very boring.

 

[old.Wildfire]

Chenuba speaks truth, if you find a group with 2 out of the 3 true essentials (sorcerer, minstrel, cleric), you're lucky. If you find one with 3 out of 3, you're looking at a miracle.