Group Purge.

[old.Nol]

I can't be asked, it's the same argument over and over, with the same people. Whatever, whatever the fuck you say, it's really not worth the bother to get pissed at some green and white pixels. You are right, I am wrong, you are all bardic, camelot authorities on everything ever.

I leave you with a quote from the thread starter, maybe that will help you.

how excatly does it work ?

 

[Brennik]

Back to the "mezz - GP - root (- purge)" thingy. Can't remember when I've last been rooted after I've GPd a mezz. It seems like some people think landing the mezz wins them the battle, whereas every time *I* fight I have to be ready to try to root all the gazillion tanks purging mezz and going for our casters. Probably because the classes capable of rooting are the nuking classes, who go into "kill" mode after shortly after the mezz? Whereas a druid has too options on keeping the group alive, rooting charging people and healing when that doesn't work.

In fact, I think opening with an ae root vs some Hib groups might be a pretty good solution, if the mincer and cleric are ready to stun the CC classes. Would leave the option of using cleric pbaoe mezz open too.

Oh yea, I forgot smite clerics "are not useful", just like high Nature druids "are not"...

 

[old.BJ|Bored]

um sos isnt a self purge ..

so if minst is surprised by the instant mes ... he cant go aha i shall sos and run off and come back later with my group when hibs are no longer immune as u cant use sos when messed ...


also minst sees group, hits sos, bard sees group, bard hits instames

none can attack ..

if sos gave u 30secs immunity to all negative effects then yes id say it was uber, but it doesnt just movement, so i rank gp above it.

 

[old.Zarko]

Originally posted by old.Odysseus

You forgot single purge.

That effectively puts hibs in a situation where they have 1 min timer to all the aoe CC we have (root+mezz).
Now try and be the caster that experiences that :/
To be fair I must add this: ofc all purges and gp is not up simultaneously.

And dont try and turn this thread into a 'GP is underpowered and crap'-thread. It is in the top 3 of all class RA's (personally I would say that if I could chose freely from those, I would take GP or BoF).

GP's main force is the ability to take back the initiative in a situation where the enemy has gained it - in conjunction with the instamezz.
It is not so much a matter of the mezz duration as it is of the moment of interruption and hesitation this will cause in the enemys ranks.
It enables the hibs damagedealers to choose their targets before the albs do the same.

I wont start commenting on mid insta aoe stun.

I gladly change GP to BoF and SoS any day.

 

[old.Zarko]

Originally posted by Tigerius
I always have a Minstrel and Cleric in my groups, partly due to being 1 of them. Most Alb groups wouldn't leave without one. But we do not reliably have 1 L50 high RR Cleric and Minstrel per active Alb group, that's a fact. At some point there will be poor guys in the rear of the zerg without. We've been over this before also, an Alb group needs 5 classes to just get the basic stuff, we can't be so posh as to sit on our asses until we get all of them.

Sorcs same survival rate as Bards is a load of crap, sure Bards get LOTS of attention and if they face a good group they die, but their chances of survival compared to a cloth caster are still immense. Where a Sorc buys LW 2 to sprint in circles, you get it done for free, where a Sorc can buy Toughness and all the best gear in the world you have similar HP/melee absorb without trying and much more when you do. I know you die most battles and that this clouds the facts, but your chances of survival compared to a Sorc is astounding, far enhanced if you get a 6sec Warden.



But very realistic to expect an Alb group that AMBUSHED a Hib group to ALL on command break engagement, turn tail and sprint off for 30secs. Lol man, you got double standards.

Just found these statistics on a summary of active RvR classes last week:

Cleric 40
Healer 39
Druid 38

No major discrepancies as far as I can see.

Hibs can barely get 1 bard in group. And Max 1 in each group - Albs have often 3 mages in group making it bloody hard to kill faster than 1 bard that is more than recognizeable.

 

[poppamies]

the "so called" i win button in mid is given to one class.
The ae mezz and stunn are on 10 minute timer.
Only the healer got it.
There are not enough healers for every grp, and alot of mid lvl 50 healers do not play their chars. Dunno why because they are great fun to play =)
So it isnt like we got insta mezz/stunn all the time.
Most off the time i use my cstable mezz/stunn.
Castable ae mezz is 34 sec longer duaration (insta 22 sec, castable 56 sec)
Enough complaints about the so called i win button thx =)

 

[Tigerius]

Correct that many mezzes aren't followed up by root. Want to know why? As Brennik stated, because it's on the nuke classes, even worse it's usually in a weird line. The sorcerer will use his QC and die to mez so his root doesnt count, the theurgist isn't and probably shouldn't spec Ice just for AoE root, the wizard perhaps should but Earth isn't too attractive for open ground RvR and it would add ANOTHER class to our list of required classes.

We always remind ourselves to root, and god knows if us Clerics could do something that useful then you would be seeing it, but with the roots in alternative speclines and on highly targeted classes it really aint that easy to do.

Casting root as first CC before mez is probably unwise when you have instaCC to fall back on.

Go nature Druids BTW, dont let anyone tell you you're useless. Green con pets completely neutralise Clerics every day out there.

I gladly change GP to BoF and SoS any day.

K, sound ok that we place BoF on say Blademasters then?

Hibs can barely get 1 bard in group. And Max 1 in each group - Albs have often 3 mages in group making it bloody hard to kill faster than 1 bard that is more than recognizeable.

Well to quote our friend Nol, you'd be stupid to leave DL without one. I can partly agree that it can be harder targeting the mezzer when there are 2 other casters, but then again if you are paying attention you know that he has very specific spell effects and you can safely know that even if you arent targeting the right one you are atleast going after a weak and good target. A bard is easily targetable I agree, unless you can have 2 in a group and have 1 running around without an instrument this will be the case. So are Avalonians though.

 

[Eleasias]

tigerius the walking talking whinedoll

 

[old.Odysseus]

Can't remember when I've last been rooted after I've GPd a mezz.

Perhaps because the GP is followed up with an insta mezz followed by tanks ganking cc'ers.

One thing I have noted is the hib tanks' apparent ability to target the casters immediately. Very disciplined (most of the time).

Oh and if Firby is reading this, how does it feel to chase a caster on hillsides?

 

[<Harle>]

Originally posted by old.Odysseus


Perhaps because the GP is followed up with an insta mezz followed by tanks ganking cc'ers.

One thing I have noted is the hib tanks' apparent ability to target the casters immediately. Very disciplined (most of the time).

Oh and if Firby is reading this, how does it feel to chase a caster on hillsides?

Thre's something wrong about your scenario here: You assume that Albs get the jump on the hibs, mezz them all, then the druid uses GP and then Bard uses insta-mezz... and meanwhile the albs are still all stuck to a single person and nicely cramped up in the 300 radius of the insta ? Come on, if you don't spread when you engage an enemy you deserve to be insta-mezzed

 

[old.Odysseus]

Are you assuming the bard fires his insta mezz on the first and nearest person?

I tend to fire my (gimped, non insta, range 1250, low duration) mezz at the casters or the bard.
I assume hib bard do roughly the same: Aim for those that can do some CC.

When the insta is fired to eliminate enemy CC, the bard is more likely to be able to use castable CC uninterrupted.


edit:
btw your own scenario for the hibs aint excactly flattering either:

You assume that Albs get the jump on the hibs, mezz them all

Come on, if you don't spread when you engage an enemy you deserve to be insta-mezzed

hmm?
or maybe hibs are easy to get the jump on - dont use swing-camera?

 

[old.Nol]

quote whoever you like, I am finished with this GP debate, it is never going anywhere.

With regards to the player stats -
100 clerics with over 77 000 RP's = http://www.camelot-seer.com/handler.cfm?app=top100/Excalibur&method=cleric
53 Druids with over 77 000 RP's = http://www.camelot-seer.com/handler.cfm?app=top100/Excalibur&method=druid

 

[old.Odysseus]

Total clerics with over 30K rp/week last week: 19
Total druids with over 30K rp/week last week: 21

Total clerics with over 10K rp/week last week: 48
Total druids with over 10K rp/week last week: 46


Your point?

It is not interesting to know that albion has 1.000.000.000 clerics if only 20 of them do active rvr.

edit:
same link as above btw

 

[old.Nol]

Nice one, it speaks volumes. So do the rest of the groups run with a friar with some rejuv or cabalist with some spirit animation? I am starting to determine a pattern here...

 

[josua]

Bards rarely use instant mezz at the start of fights instead use them when they are being attacked to get away in a fight a bard either has a drum,lute or flute in hand = no defence in my experiance they are 1 of the first characters to die ...if they dont die then thats because they were very lucky very skillful or the oponents were asleep...
there are alot of classes that i belive have overpowerd skills but they have negatives which counter these ...if the group you in plays there charecters as well as they can be your group will win a 1 fg vs 1 fg battle every time... imo no 1 is totaly overpowerd instant mezz isnt the winner of any battle instant aoe stun isnt and group purge definately isnt... its hard for everyone in a group to know what everyone is doing at the same time mistakes are made ...hopefuly you will learn by you mistakes and improve instead of complaining

 

[old.Wildfire]

What Josua said. I'm sure there will be some pointless cries of "traitor!" *ahem tigerius* surrounding me at the moment. But as it stands I'm seeing the grass on both sides of the fence.

To hibs: Albion does have serious issues with class availability. Alb groups simply do not have sorcs, clerics or minstrels available (or available and willing) in sufficient numbers to create balanced groups. Throw statistics around all you like, WF is 5L7 which equates to a lot of time spent RvRing with alb groups, and I will say "bugger that" to the statistics every time.

To albs: Yes, hibs get insta AE mezz, but as has been mentioned, a decent bard won't run in and waste it straight away, it's essential for getting those tanks you miss first time with your castable mezz off your ass so that you can run away. The problems with our fair realm are, unfortunately, based largely around the kind of players we have, moreso than in the abilities of our classes.

 

[Novo]

Originally posted by Tigerius
At some point there will be poor guys in the rear of the ZERG without....

Confirms my thoughts on the majority of Albs game plan.... (FC and a few others excluded)... ZERG ZERG .... pretty sad really.

(of topic btw .... I know just couldn't resist it!)

 

[Tigerius]

As pointed out most of our Clerics are buffbots, and yes they do have RP because they were once actually played. Checked RP gained over a recent time period to get the idea about our number of active Clerics.

I'm not entirely sure what groups without Clerics do, never been in one but there isn't 1 active Cleric per Alb group. You saw the standings with equal amount of active Druids as Clerics, you saw yourself say you only had Druids in 1/4 groups, you saw yourself say albs have 45% of the server numbers.. now equate these 3 facts and see what you come up with.

Of course got Bards don't use instamezz, looking at the duration it's a nobrainer and TBH it's not bothering me that much.

BTW: WF is a traitor!

BTW: I don't whine, 95% of what I say is a fact or a belief of a major population. I don't involve personal opinions about different matters.

 

[Tigerius]

Originally posted by Novo


Confirms my thoughts on the majority of Albs game plan.... (FC and a few others excluded)... ZERG ZERG .... pretty sad really.

(of topic btw .... I know just couldn't resist it!)

If it was part of our gameplan wouldn't the guys in front of the zerg with a Minstrel cancel their speed to allow us all to move together?

Ever struck you that we're doing our best using speed to get away from them and to the enemies and they are just tailing us?

 

[old.Nol]

I'm just astounded at the thought of groups going out without some form of "heal" specced healer and then wondering how they lose? Seems to me as if insta mezz and GP are the least of your problems.

 

[Novamir]

Originally posted by Eleasias
tigerius the walking talking whinedoll

don't blame him, he was nerfed from uber alb char to a normal char :/

 

[Tigerius]

I'm not sure if those groups are suprised they loose even encounters. I'm not anyway.

When I'm discussing I'm assuming Cleric, Minstrel, Sorcerer which as Wildfire stated isn't the truth for all alb groups, in fact not many at all, but I guess I get lucky alot. The problem is that you keep refusing to do the same, assume you get the classes you need. Keep hearing whines about how you have too few of this n that. Everyone has that problem, Albion does more since our essential abilities are spread out over more chars.

The arguments we've been hearing are basically like "Oh alb groups are so stupid to not have a Cleric for healing, buffs and stun, a Sorcerer for mez, a Theurgist/Wizard for root, a Minstrel for speed, a Friar for other buffs, they should expect to die", then it's "but we never have Bards, and never Druids, we have to use green cons".

Originally posted by Novamir




don't blame him, he was nerfed from uber alb char to a normal char :/

Listen to Novamir, he knows what he's talking about. Cleric WAS an uber Alb char, that is a class that could actually compete with Hib classes, now they're nerfed to normal Alb chars, RP cows.

 

[old.Nol]

I talked about grouping without a healer. There is always some form of healer in hib groups, if there are not druids, there is normally a bard, warden, mentalist and vice versa. As previously stated, if you don't have healers in your group, you have bigger problems then GP and insta mezz.

 

[noaim]

Love to see the albs whine about everything, but then when someone points out that they have close to 10k players, when Midgard and Hibernia have about 6000 each, they say "well what wrong with having a bigger army?".

Then I have to ask you silly albs...whats wrong with having more powerful RA´s?

And seriously...do you really think every hibernian lvl 50 druid have enough RP´s for GP? Exclude those who dont...how many do you have left?

Then divide that with the number of hib groups and you get my point...I hope.

And I also would like to ask...what was the most common outcome in a fight between 1 alb fg and 1 hib fg before GP?
I would think the albs lost bigtime...and you still do...so whats the real difference?

 

[Tigerius]

Actually, and this is before RAs entirely obviously, the group who got the jump won, always been my experience. Usually this was us. Was quite easy actually. If Hibs got the jump then they usually won and noone pondered that much. In a head on group v group it depended alot on exact circumstances but we for sure won alot of em. This is my individual experience speaking about a particular group, not Albs in general. Problem these days is getting the jump is quite insufficient.

I quite seriously DO think every L50 Druid has enough points for GP, if he doesn't then do your realm a favour, group the gimp for a day in Emain and earn the... 20k? RP needed for 2L4.

 

[old.Pempula]

Originally posted by old.Odysseus
Total clerics with over 30K rp/week last week: 19
Total druids with over 30K rp/week last week: 21

Total clerics with over 10K rp/week last week: 48
Total druids with over 10K rp/week last week: 46


Your point?

It is not interesting to know that albion has 1.000.000.000 clerics if only 20 of them do active rvr.

This stat does NOT in any way proove that only 20 of the clerics do active RvR. It only shows that only 20 of them have some idea of how to play the game: albs suck.