Graphic Cards

[old.[RaveN]DaGoD]

Whats the best graphic card to buy for christmas?
Does any one know and good review sites?
I heard the Voodoo 6? (what is it now? lol) is good but slower than the GeForce 2 but the GeForce 2 is a good card but has some combatibilty problems considering I have a P3 500 192MB I wanna run games like Halo too can any one help me? <:/

[Edited by [RaveN]DaGoD on 17-10-00 at 22:03]

 

[stu]

Get a Geforce DDR and wait for the prices of anything faster to drop.

I've not found any software which stretches my GF DDR at all really. So the premium of £250 or so for a new GF2 Ultra kind of seems silly. The graphics card market has gone the same way as the CPU one now: new hardware being released at ridiculous rates, and ridiculous prices, and we're waiting for the software to catch up.

Advantage of it is you can pick up some really decent stuff for very good prices.

 

[old.TUG]

Yeah, DDR GF1's can be had for about 115 quid nowadays if you don't mind it being OEM. I still use a DDR GeForce 1 and people expect me to have shit fast components because I'm always answering their questions when they email me etc but DDR GF1's are still top notch, specially if you play in 1024*768 - 32bit colour. It's the DDR GF1's fave res IMO

Another reason why I aint upgrading my pootah like mad anymore is cuz they get bloody boring after a while!

 

[old.logic7]

screw a Geforce DDR. Get a Geforce2 MX. A helluva lot cheaper ($98 here in the states, that would be about 67 to you guys!), all of the extra features of the Geforce2, overclockability (new word???), and it runs as fast as a DDR Geforce.

 

[old.Davehart]

yep, a GeForce DDR thing

 

[bodhi]

I'll have a radeon thx.

yes its ATi.
yes its the same speed as geffer 2 (ignoring firingsquad benchmarks here)
and yes its more expensive.

but it can do more (fully direct x 8 compliant, watch DVD's at more than 3 fps etc etc).
and for the past year and a half ive been happy as a pig in shit with me rage fury, and i hated the tnt2u i had for a couple of months.

Ati has it imo.

But then im a) not a quake 3 player b) pissed as a fart and c) I hate nVIDIA more than anything else on this planet (yes TUG, nova SR's included.).

 

[old.TUG]

Better than cinquecento's m8 (if I spelt that right, don't pay attention to how to spell the names of cheesy little cars like those)

GeForce MX's in the UK aint that cheap, and over 1024*768 in 32bit, the DDR GF1 mashes the MX hence that's what I'd buy.

MX - about 110 quid
DDR GF - about 115 quid

Hence, me'd buy a DDR GF1

ATI Radeon... if I was to buy one it'd have to be the 64meg DDR version, but I doubt I'd buy one cuz it's ATI

 

[old.Johnny Jackal]

GeForce2 Ultra - UK release date?

Originally posted by Stu-
So the premium of £250 or so for a new GF2 Ultra kind of seems silly. The graphics card market has gone the same way as the CPU one now: new hardware being released at ridiculous rates, and ridiculous prices, and we're waiting for the software to catch up.

I think you mean the GeForce2 GTS, not the GeForce2 Ultra unless you know something I don't. The GeForce2 Ultra is the latest NVidia supposedly out this month and supposedly twice as good as the GF2 GTS. Obviously we wouldn't be so bloody confused if they had sense to change the name.

About the graphics card market I agree except for the fact that here in the UK we don't get the latest card until 6 months after the states (by which time we hear about a bigger faster version). I hate the way distributors play some sort of sales timing game with us over here.

Use the GeForce2 Ultra as an example: in the states the release date is now (Oct) - lets see how long it takes to reach our store shelves.

 

[old.TUG]

Erm...

GF2 Ultra is a higher clocked GF2 hence is unlikely to be twice as good as the clock speed is far from twice as high.

We don't get cards till 6 months after than the US?? Far from true Try 2-3 weeks at the most!

GeForce 2 Ultra's *are* already available in the UK, if you want a link then email me... 481 quid tho - NO THANKS!

 

[stu]

"screw a Geforce DDR. Get a Geforce2 MX. A helluva lot cheaper ($98 here in the states, that would be about 67 to you guys!), all of the extra features of the Geforce2, overclockability (new word???), and it runs as fast as a DDR Geforce"

No cheaper (as TUG says), you can clock a GF if you want, and no it doesn't. Besides, an MX is like a Celeron isn't it.

"I'll have a radeon thx.

yes its the same speed as geffer 2 (ignoring firingsquad benchmarks here)"

Not according to Anand, and almost everyone else.

"but it can do more (fully direct x 8 compliant, watch DVD's at more than 3 fps etc etc)."

'oooh'. You already have a DVD player tho Bod, coz you know just as well as I do that DVD-ROM is for pikeys

"I think you mean the GeForce2 GTS, not the GeForce2 Ultra unless you know something I don't"

No, I do mean the Ultra, so yes, I guess I do. Again, as TUG says (my god, the man makes sense) Ultra will be nowhere near 2x GTS. It will probably be about the same improvement TNT2U was over TNT2.

 

[old.logic7]

DAYUM! You guys are gettin' the shaft on GeForce cards. Today's (Oct 20, 2000) cheapest pricing on Geforce cards are:

• Geforce SDR - $117
• Geforce DDR - $143
• Geforce2 MX - $94

At current exchange rates (.6919), that would make them:

• Geforce SDR - 80.73
• Geforce DDR - 98.67
• Geforce2 MX - 64.86

(I don't know how to make a Pound sign)

BTW, GeForce2 MX overclocked to 200MHz can best a GeForce DDR.

 

[Xavier]

and a geforce ddr overclocked reigns supreme once again

what's the point in comparing hardware on an uneven playing field, next you'll quote benchmarks in 3dmark between:

Geforce 2MX
Pentium III 1Ghz
1Gb RAM

and

Geforce DDR
AMD K6-2 300
32Mb RAM

tit

 

[old.TUG]

1) England is gay so it seems a rule that we pay more than you americans

2) Go get a DDR GeForce and bench it against your MX over 1024*768 in 32 bit colour - NOW do you see the difference?!

DDR - Short for Phat mem bandwidth Needed for high res's and colour depths, therefore how can the bandwidth of normal SDRAM compare to the DDR's when you're in a relatively high res and 32bit colour depth? The answer? It can't.

Nuffage said

 

[old.logic7]

How can an SDR card compete? Simple, overclock the memory as well as the chip istelf. If you've ever looked at benchmarks with the DDR VS the MX, you will see that as the resolution gets higher, the difference between the two becomes smaller. Tom's Hardware and AnandTech have charts to show just that.
Take a look at this page:

http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/00q3/0008141/detonator3-06.html

At normal quality, the MX and DDR give up the same FPS at any resolution. It's not until you go to high quality that there is a difference. This can be attributed to memory bandwidth. DDR memory offers more data throughput than SDR. However, if you overclock the memory, you can gain that edge back. At Normal settings, the memory bandwith of the MX is perfectly capable of delivering data with enouh speed that the MX can perfectly match the DDR. Taking that into account, one could speculate that the two cores are evenly matched at their default speeds. Memory will be the limiting factor of the MX. Higher quality needs more polygons and better textures, something that DDR memory has no trouble delivering. One thing to note though; at high quality, the difference between the two starts to drop as the resolution goes up. At 1024x768 the difference is 15fps, at 1600x1200 it's 6.8ps. These differences can be even less (if there is one at all) with core and memory overclocked on the MX. There is enough technical documentation on the web to support this (ArsTechnica, AnandTech, Toms Hardware, ect...).

Of course, if you continue the article, you will see that the DDR can have a substantial lead over the MX, but it narrows as the resolution goes up.

This is why the MX (here anyways) is a better buy. I guess for you guys across the pond it doesn't matter.

Your point, Xavier, is noted, even if it is exaggerated. But, my point is simply that if you want the speed of a GeforceDDR, you can save a few bucks buy getting an MX and overclocking it a bit.

 

[old.GateKeeper]

I Have an MX and run it quite happyly in 1280 * 1024 in quake III banchmarking at 39.8 fps on demo001. That's on 32bit colours ,
32 textures ,
high detail level ,
and trilinear filtering !

o'clocked it to 200 core and 195 memory!

GateKeeper

 

[old.logic7]

At that speed it matches the Geforce DDR.

 

[Ono]

I have a GF2 GTS. Is that good?

 

[old.TUG]

blah blah blah

The solution? Overclock the DDR memory an'all... there you go, stuffs the MX once again

 

[Xavier]

Basically logic 7, we're saying that a budget, cutdown of a high-performance graphics card can't cut the mustard... tis another POS I'm afraid... just becuase you regret buyin the MX and realise that the DDR is a better card doesn't mean ya have to defend your purchase...

go with the flow

by the way ppl I am serious about swapping my second geforce 2 gts (creative labs, and no, not an MX) for a voodoo 4/5 so if anyone is interested...

 

[old.logic7]

Actually, I don't yet have a GeForce MX. I'm currently running a Diamond Stealth S540 Savage4 card, so I'm not defending my purchase (yet). I'm definitely not getting a Geforce DDR because the difference in price here in the US doesn't warrant it. For $50 more, I don't see a real return. A few FPS doesn't bother me. Besides, I play everything at 640x480 and 800x600 (I've got a 15" monitor), at those resolutions there is no real difference between the two cards.

My future purchase of an MX isn't only for gaming either, I also do 3D design (usually for rave flyers). ANY GeForce is good for that (Hell, the MX can whoop the hell out of an Oxygen 210).

If you could save $50 on a card and get the same performance by simply overclocking it, wouldn't you do it?

And, for the record, the MX still has all of the additional features of the GeForce2 that the Geforce256 doesn't.

 

[old.TUG]

fairynuff, but I spose since we're in the UK, the £5 difference between the MX and DDR GF1 kinda makes the DDR a better buy as it will be able to take heavier, more bandwidth needy games of the future.

 

[old.Johnny Jackal]

Originally posted by TUG
Erm...

GF2 Ultra is a higher clocked GF2 hence is unlikely to be twice as good as the clock speed is far from twice as high.

We don't get cards till 6 months after than the US?? Far from true Try 2-3 weeks at the most!

GeForce 2 Ultra's *are* already available in the UK, if you want a link then email me... 481 quid tho - NO THANKS!

Erm...

lets not get too picky - you know what I meant.

2-3 weeks after the states - maybe from some little known importer, but I was talking about general release. I phoned a couple of stores and they had never heard of it.

£481 - OUCH! (soon graphics cards will cost more than PC's)

 

[old.Johnny Jackal]

Soon you'll have to install your PC onto your graphics card

 

[Testin da Cable]

puh. your card'll have 4x the ram thats 10 times faster than you average comp, massivepenis like throughput and several grafical processors that will probably also have more bang for your buck, or pound or guilder for that matter than the fastest o/c'd athlon. this massive card will require liquid coolant running on large pump that sounds like your neighbors power drill and it will need it's own 500W power supply to feed it. it will raise the ambient temp of your computer room by 15 C and instantly vaporize anything that come into contact with it. anytime you'll want to open your box to do some stuff you'll have to turn it off a day in advance or risk getting severe burns......

 

[old.TUG]

As it goes, the GF2 Ultra in question is available from one of the biggest high performance hardware outlets in the country so

 

[old.logic7]

Originally posted by testin_da_cable
puh. your card'll have 4x the ram thats 10 times faster than you average comp, massivepenis like throughput and several grafical processors that will probably also have more bang for your buck, or pound or guilder for that matter than the fastest o/c'd athlon. this massive card will require liquid coolant running on large pump that sounds like your neighbors power drill and it will need it's own 500W power supply to feed it. it will raise the ambient temp of your computer room by 15 C and instantly vaporize anything that come into contact with it. anytime you'll want to open your box to do some stuff you'll have to turn it off a day in advance or risk getting severe burns......

The 3DLabs Oxygen GVX420 fits that description (almost...)

Dual New-Generation GLINT R4 Rasterizers
GLINT Gamma G2 Second-Generation Geometry Processor
128MB On-Board Memory
Flexible Dual Processor Architecture
Dual Display Capability
Dual Analog and DVI Display Connectors

Or you could always get into a 3DLabs/Integraph Wildcat 4210

• Complete OpenGL® 1.2 geometry acceleration using two highly-tuned geometry engines - providing 6.4 GFLOPS of geometry processing performance - which sustain the highest level of real-time on-screen performance in the industry
• Large, dedicated 128 MB frame buffer and 128 MB texture memory support rich, photorealistic shading and highly detailed textures - always in true color, with maximum depth accuracy, and with double buffering enabled (That's 256MB of RAM guys!!!!)
  [*}Wide, independent buses connect frame buffer and texture memory to the graphics chipset for maximum performance
• Dual-pipeline featuring 256-bit frame buffer and 128-bit texture buffer
• SuperScene antialiasing - true, multi-sampled scene mode antialiasing offering higher performance and significantly lower memory utilization than typical multi-sampled antialiasing techniques
• 3D volumetric texture support
• Specialized DirectBurst™ technology optimizes the 3D graphics pipeline, significantly boosting performance
• Advanced 2D and 3D rendering functionality guarantees maximum acceleration of the most advanced professional 3D applications
• Digital flat panel display support
• Designed for AGP Pro 110 (2X and 4X)
• Can drive dual display from a single AGP Pro 110 slot (under Windows 2000 only)

Going rate on either : Oxygen GVX420 US$2249.00
Wildcat 4210 US$------- You have to buy a PC with one in it.

 

[old.TUG]

Not quick enuff for games

 

[old.Johnny Jackal]

What was that about putting your massive penis through?????

 

[Testin da Cable]

heh thought that would get your attention m8

 

[bodhi]

Ordered me radeon yesterday so should in theory be here tomorrow or friday. Thought about saving money and getting the 32Mb DDR version. Then said fuck it and went for the all singing all dancing more toys than frankie's blow up doll version. DDR 64Mb VIVO Retail (dont buy an OEM ATi card, theyre clocked lower then the retail ones for some reason). Getting it for £288, which isnt too bad considering its £309 at DABS. Ah well its only money. I shall tell you when I've installed it how orgasmically fast it is (I'm on a Rage 128 atm, so chances are the radeon will be faster ).

Bodhi