Give ingame CSR's

[tildson]

We're paying same amount as those in US, we get soooo much worse support. I could live with that, but im not gonna live with you have to "write a mail" for every damn bug and abuser you meet.

On US, we met a lag-abusing group, contacted CSR and they got what they deserved. Here, they dont care, they cant hire 1guy on each server for this job.

I know there's no use complaining about GOA, but i just couldnt help myself after Digie, a scout on Prydwen, while shooting at us we notice him, chases him and he lag-abuses 5-6sec with a "ghost". And when he's supposed to have "returned", of course he has stealthed. Really think GOA would care if i use Rightnow? Live CSR's are so much better, come on GOA its not too much to ask.

/flaming off

 

[Falcon]

Agree, I've caught 3 cheaters on Prydwen, provided evidence (two of the times the evidence was completely undisputable) yet they were still in game months later. If they were only given a warning for first offence fair enough I guess, except, one of them wasn't first offence as they'd been caught and reported before multiple times.

GOA doesn't give a rats arse about cheaters, Mythic isn't perfect at catching cheaters, but if you report someone and they continue to abuse when a CSR is secretly watching then at least they get banned even if they don't manage to catch all of them - GOA doesn't even try.

The one that annoyed me most was the guy who'd been reported multiple times by a few people. He was a necro when the LoS bugs were still in, hiding a pet inside the wall. I know necros weren't punished for attacking through walls but their news page said specifically, two weeks in a row that hiding pets INSIDE walls where they couldn't be attacked (except by GTAE etc.) was punishable. GOA tell you they care, tell you to report cheats and then when you do, and provide evidence don't give a damn about it, it's just a pathetic PR front when they claim you should report cheaters because they will be dealt with.

 

[Brannor McThife]

Originally posted by Falcon
GOA doesn't give a rats arse about cheaters...

Bullshit. I refer to kr0n (a.k.a. Layl)

Originally posted by Falcon
...GOA doesn't even try.

Bullshit. You can't just ban someone without solid proof. And you claiming the the proof is indisputable shows that you don't half understand both the full method of them proving someone's guilt, nor the legality involved in the banning.

Originally posted by Falcon
The one that annoyed me most was the guy who'd been reported multiple times by a few people. He was a necro when the LoS bugs were still in, hiding a pet inside the wall. I know necros weren't punished for attacking through walls but their news page said specifically, two weeks in a row that hiding pets INSIDE walls where they couldn't be attacked (except by GTAE etc.) was punishable. GOA tell you they care, tell you to report cheats and then when you do, and provide evidence don't give a damn about it, it's just a pathetic PR front when they claim you should report cheaters because they will be dealt with.

Bullshit again. I know for a fact that this person was suspended for 3 days (at least).

They deal with cheats, I know they do. The only issue, is that they cannot publish a list of everyone that has been punished, because they're not allowed to. Just because you don't know of the people that have been punished - and there are many - doesn't mean that GOA doesn't care.

</flame>
</answer>



-G

 

[-chancer-]

Originally posted by Brannor McThife
Bullshit. I refer to kr0n (a.k.a. Layl)

-G

that's where that cock cheese went good never could stand him

 

[Whoodoo_RD]

Originally posted by tildson
We're paying same amount as those in US, we get soooo much worse support. I could live with that, but im not gonna live with you have to "write a mail" for every damn bug and abuser you meet.

OK, so what little you know about GOA and Mythic and how the game is run. Heres 4 things you may not have considered bfore posting:

GOA PAY Mythic for the rights to host the game. (prob about 15% IMO)
Mythic host the game themselves.

GOA Pay Wanadoo for hosting and their connection. (again 15%ish)
Mythic answer to no one.

GOA have to pay for translators, not cheap!
Mythic only use 1 language.

GOA put in more content of their own. So they hire Story writers.
Mythic just roll stuff out, end of story. GOA do have to shell out cash to others, so in reality, we dont pay THEM the same. Also becuse the games writers are on hand, so are facilities to change things in the game.

Ask most ppl from the US, in game CSR's are useless, you only have to read about Nerner and his exploits to know this. I have met a few ppl from US servers, and to quote "all you see in euro is the good side, not the side that shows them to be lazy and arrogant 90% of the time".


Still, theres good ol' BW here for your cheese.

While I do agree that CS needs looking at, in game CSRs are not the answer. Highlight your complaints on here if you wish, naming and shaming seems to work well, or just make sure you get all the details on rightnow.

 

[Lam]

If you want to start comparing how much each company makes don't forget that Mythic has to pay the people that design the graphics, the people that write the code and the people that come up with new ideas and improvements to the game aka developers.
GOA doesn't have that cost but as Whoodoo_RD said they do have some extra costs.

I don't mind not having ingame CSR's, I play US servers and although they can be helpfull at times I rarely bother to send in a CSR ticket.

 

[Falcon]

What Layl did was a little more high profile, just as the whole hack incident, if someone enters another realm and starts interfering then of course they need to do something, it's something that can effect a lot of people and is foolproof to detect and prove, the things that take a little more work however just get outright ignored by GOA. In fact, even that said I've known a couple of people who've run through a zone wall and caused trouble without getting punished.

Bullshit. You can't just ban someone without solid proof. And you claiming the the proof is indisputable shows that you don't half understand both the full method of them proving someone's guilt, nor the legality involved in the banning.

That's quite funny actually, as I've worked professionally on cheat prevention and know both the technical and legal aspects of both detecting and punishing. Most other games companies and MMOG providers do a better job of removing cheats than GOA, they cannot hide behind this excuse because it's a simple fantasy.

Bullshit again. I know for a fact that this person was suspended for 3 days (at least).

They deal with cheats, I know they do. The only issue, is that they cannot publish a list of everyone that has been punished, because they're not allowed to. Just because you don't know of the people that have been punished - and there are many - doesn't mean that GOA doesn't care.

Hehe, so you know they got suspended except GOA couldn't tell you that? Or did you just ask them whilst you were crossrealming? Do you even know which necro I'm talking about? Even if this IS true or whether it's you trying to make up for your real life deficiencies as usual by trying to be Mr Inside GOA Man, 3 days is hardly a valid punishment for a repeat offender. You do not work for GOA, you are(were?) a simple volunteer, they rejected your application for a real job remember?

Would've hoped you'd have sorted yourself out now and weren't still the same old bitter twisted loser you always were, still holding a grudge.

 

[Driwen]

Originally posted by Lam
If you want to start comparing how much each company makes don't forget that Mythic has to pay the people that design the graphics, the people that write the code and the people that come up with new ideas and improvements to the game aka developers.
GOA doesn't have that cost but as Whoodoo_RD said they do have some extra costs.

thing is GOA pays those people indirectly (and might pay them a higher percentage off subscription than mythic does).

 

[kain_pravus]

Then again Mythic develope the game, theres a hefty cost indeed probably alot more than the sum paided by GOA to mythic and wanadoo combined.

I would like atleast one CSR per language full time (thats only 3 minimum full time) wandering the servers, poping up at random places patrolling.

but I'm not too fussed TBH, so far I haven't had any real need but if something does goes badly wrong I pretty much want it fixed right there and then (or atleast within the hour if I have to use rightnow).

I'm not sure but have they got people answering rightnow 24/7 or just business hours?

 

[Falcon]

Ask most ppl from the US, in game CSR's are useless, you only have to read about Nerner and his exploits to know this. I have met a few ppl from US servers, and to quote "all you see in euro is the good side, not the side that shows them to be lazy and arrogant 90% of the time".

Er, it's actually the other way around, when the US players find out how bad GOA actually is they realise that their CSRs aren't so bad. The longest response time I've had from a CSR so far is 2hrs 30mins, the shortest response time I've had from GOA is around 24hrs. I accidently sold a quest item on Saturday, appealed it and the CSR sorted it out for me a mere 15mins after reporting it.

A lot of the CSR whines are because of things like:
1) Bug reports, you more often than not don't receive a report back from the CSR about this, some people don't read the info provided and sit wondering why CSRs aren't replying.
2) Expected waiting times are included when you /appeal, I've heard people say "OMG I had to wait 9hrs for a response", cancel the appeal and then go to VN Boards and post crap like "I had to wait 9 hours for a CSR, I just gave up in the end".

CSRs don't always respond fast when busy, I've known real stories of upto 6hrs just after ToA was released but although 6hrs is a long time to wait, it really isn't anywhere near as bad as the month+ horror stories from right now.

Finally, look at the amount of downtime Right Now has, it can often be down for days or even weeks - CSRs don't have that downside, at worst they down for a day, like Christmas for example.

 

[froler-mid]

ive had 5-6 encounters with TEH Kemor the last 2 years. Havnt needed him more tbh ;ddd

was stuck in sidi once, mailed GOA, , kemor popped in 1 hour( on a saturday at 21.00..).

 

[tildson]

Re: Re: Give ingame CSR's

Originally posted by Whoodoo_RD
OK, so what little you know about GOA and Mythic and how the game is run. Heres 4 things you may not have considered bfore posting:

GOA PAY Mythic for the rights to host the game. (prob about 15% IMO)
Mythic host the game themselves.

GOA Pay Wanadoo for hosting and their connection. (again 15%ish)
Mythic answer to no one.

GOA have to pay for translators, not cheap!
Mythic only use 1 language.

GOA put in more content of their own. So they hire Story writers.
Mythic just roll stuff out, end of story. GOA do have to shell out cash to others, so in reality, we dont pay THEM the same. Also becuse the games writers are on hand, so are facilities to change things in the game.

Ask most ppl from the US, in game CSR's are useless, you only have to read about Nerner and his exploits to know this. I have met a few ppl from US servers, and to quote "all you see in euro is the good side, not the side that shows them to be lazy and arrogant 90% of the time".


Still, theres good ol' BW here for your cheese.

While I do agree that CS needs looking at, in game CSRs are not the answer. Highlight your complaints on here if you wish, naming and shaming seems to work well, or just make sure you get all the details on rightnow.

Ive played US now and then for 1½years, the CSR's arent useless, they give you a solid answer atleast - GOA usually ignores you.

I dont care if GOA pays more than Mythic, they should be able to run the business just as good as Mythic. I really dont think anyone would mind 1-2$ extra every month for CSR's do you?

Ingame CSR should already be implemented on EU, why the do you think 90% of the community really dislikes GOA for either one of these reasons:

* Slow patching
* Lots of maintenance and LD's
* Crap support, yes people arent happy with Rightnow's support
* No ingame CSR's, would really help instead of getting a useless answers you usually get - dont wanna have a day conversation - wait 2 days - get a useless answer - wait 2days - get another useless answer and so on. It has happend for so many!
* Bad PR's and informers by GOA, keep us noticed in a more active way.

 

[Twaize]

Re: Re: Give ingame CSR's

Originally posted by Whoodoo_RD
Ask most ppl from the US, in game CSR's are useless, you only have to read about Nerner and his exploits to know this. I have met a few ppl from US servers, and to quote "all you see in euro is the good side, not the side that shows them to be lazy and arrogant 90% of the time".

They only banned Nerner cos ppl stopped playing and it hurt in theyr pockets...

 

[tildson]

Brannor,

Please inform us then if you find no evidence instead of saying nothing - better communication with the players once again. And bravo for kr0n's termination, but thats 1/1000 cases. Once again, keep the accuser informed about the abuser, say something instead of just saying "we'll look into it" - Better customer support please!

And Remi, maybe you were lucky? Kemor is a very decent fellow, but he only got 2hands - not only you should be happy, the rest of us complaining should too. And theres way more complaining about GOA than the yankiees complain about Mythic - try playing there and find out yourself.

GOA's reputation is not good, there is reasons why - rest you can figure before you go say GOA is doing there best and so on. Im sure everyone is doing their best, but i wouldnt let GOA run my company if you get my point.

 

[Sibanac]

Re: Re: Re: Give ingame CSR's

Originally posted by tildson
Ive played US now and then for 1½years, the CSR's arent useless, they give you a solid answer atleast - GOA usually ignores you.

I dont care if GOA pays more than Mythic, they should be able to run the business just as good as Mythic. I really dont think anyone would mind 1-2$ extra every month for CSR's do you?

I would + the fact that to set up 24/7 support facilitys it would cost alot more then what you seem to think.

As for lots of maintance and ld's, US probebly has more maintanance downtime then we do
As for LD's I dont think I had more then 5 days of connection problems then where not due to my ISP

 

[Flimgoblin]

I'd mind in-game CSRs ain't needed.

More policing of cheaters - or rather more _visible_ policing of cheaters might well be something I'd approve of though.

 

[old.yaruar]

Originally posted by kain_pravus
Then again Mythic develope the game, theres a hefty cost indeed probably alot more than the sum paided by GOA to mythic and wanadoo combined.

I would like atleast one CSR per language full time (thats only 3 minimum full time) wandering the servers, poping up at random places patrolling.

but I'm not too fussed TBH, so far I haven't had any real need but if something does goes badly wrong I pretty much want it fixed right there and then (or atleast within the hour if I have to use rightnow).

I'm not sure but have they got people answering rightnow 24/7 or just business hours?

But you can't have one person per language full time, that would be one person per language during business hours 5 days a week.

If you wanted 24/7 coverage you would have to look at shift work which would mean a minimum of 4 per language (can't remember exact laws in europe on shift working atm)
Which would cost the company at least half a million euros a year in extra costs ballpark...

24 hours support is exceptionally costly with very few returns.

 

[ning]

Re: Re: Give ingame CSR's

Originally posted by Whoodoo_RD

GOA PAY Mythic for the rights to host the game. (prob about 15% IMO)
Mythic host the game themselves.

I think it's much more. I would say it's between 40% and 50%.

 

[Sichama]

I can't believe how people will say anything or think anything to support a company that they are the clients.

a) The game is designed by Mythic, the core game, patches updated, expansions, bug fixes...everything is visioned, designed and created by Myhtic that means they have teams of people working for every single thing you see in game and you compare that to GoA's work? who obviously have their own teams but are only consentrated on the few minor changes they do? and yes translations are a minor aspect the way GoA is handling it, i would accept it was a large work if it was done fast because that would mean they had alot of people working on it, it obviously takes so long to translate because they have a couple of people translating a page per day.

b) I don't care how much a company pays or earns from their product, they state their price for their product and if i like it i buy it, if at some point i want more for my money i ask for it if they refuse to give it i either stop buying their product or suck it up and ask again later.

c) I am the customer i am allways right, even when im wrong treat me as im right and you are wrong, and apologise that you can't please me or else i might stop buying your product.

d) DAoC in Europe hosted by GoA is the only online game with a monthly subscription of this magnitute with no online/in game support, in fact its the only company that you don't even get the option to phone them if you have something urgent that needs to be resolved.

e) Many people myself included will change game the minute something as good or even a bit inferior of DAoC hits the shelfs only because we are not happy by the company's customer relations, personaly i will never ever again play a game hosted by GoA no matter how good.

f) A basic in game CSR system implemented by GoA would cost 5 more salaries each month. If given the option to have this service available but the game would cost more i would be happy to pay it if it is in resonable numbers despite the fact i can live without it.
The only real problem i see GoA having is that those people must speak and write English/German, and i believe that is probably the hardest thing to do in France as French people seem to be quite uneducated in speaking any other language than their own.

g) Rumors that GoA has actually been caught stealing money from ex-customers are loud and to my knowledge never been proven wrong by GoA herself. Wanadoo is proven to host one of the bigest e-mail list retrieving, advert, spybot in the world... mr-x my ass.

Just because you are paying for a poor service that does not mean that if you deny the fact that you are scamed for your money it isn't real either, i am fully aware i am giving my money to someone that doesn't desereve it, does that make me a fool so be it.

People supporting GoA are like smokers defending cigarete companies because they buy their products, well they are also fools using something that damages their health and paying for it on top of all. And yes im a smoker too, denying the fact will not make it go away or disprove that we are fools.

 

[ning]

FYI US servers was down during 4 hours yesterday and 2 hours today (just check camelotheral).
Euro uptime is better than US uptime.

 

[ning]

Originally posted by Sichama

d) DAoC in Europe hosted by GoA is the only online game with a monthly subscription of this magnitute with no online/in game support, in fact its the only company that you don't even get the option to phone them if you have something urgent that needs to be resolved.

Horizon europe : no customer support at all for 12.95€ a month with servers full at peak time.

The only real problem i see GoA having is that those people must speak and write English/German, and i believe that is probably the hardest thing to do in France as French people seem to be quite uneducated in speaking any other language than their own.

Funny. If french people seems to be quite uneducated in speaking any other language what about the English ????
You're just xenophobe.

 

[old.yaruar]

Originally posted by Sichama

c) I am the customer i am allways right, even when im wrong treat me as im right and you are wrong, and apologise that you can't please me or else i might stop buying your product.


e) Many people myself included will change game the minute something as good or even a bit inferior of DAoC hits the shelfs only because we are not happy by the company's customer relations, personaly i will never ever again play a game hosted by GoA no matter how good.

f) A basic in game CSR system implemented by GoA would cost 5 more salaries each month. If given the option to have this service available but the game would cost more i would be happy to pay it if it is in resonable numbers despite the fact i can live without it.
The only real problem i see GoA having is that those people must speak and write English/German, and i believe that is probably the hardest thing to do in France as French people seem to be quite uneducated in speaking any other language than their own.

g) Rumors that GoA has actually been caught stealing money from ex-customers are loud and to my knowledge never been proven wrong by GoA herself. Wanadoo is proven to host one of the bigest e-mail list retrieving, advert, spybot in the world... mr-x my ass.

People supporting GoA are like smokers defending cigarete companies because they buy their products, well they are also fools using something that damages their health and paying for it on top of all. And yes im a smoker too, denying the fact will not make it go away or disprove that we are fools.

c - crap, customers are usually arses and generally wrong.

e - if you don't like it then leave already and quit your whining

f - totall crap, to give 24/7 support you would need a minimum team of 10 or 12 new employees if you wanted 1 per language. with 4 you would either have to have tri lingual support (possible, expensive, overworked with 1 person dealing with all the servers on their own) or have support 9-5 monday to friday which is basically useless for most of the player base

g - rumors..... you said it, and as for wannadoo running e-mail retrieving lists, 1- so what and 2 - proof?

As for your last point that's just stupid...

And remember, don't let the door hit you on the arse on the way out.....

HTH HAND

 

[old.yaruar]

Originally posted by ning
Horizon europe : no customer support at all for 12.95€ a month with servers full at peak time.




Funny. If french people seems to be quite uneducated in speaking any other language what about the English ????
You're just xenophobe.

in fact most french people speak another language almost fluently, most english people can't even speak english.....

 

[Cyfr]

Originally posted by ning
FYI US servers was down during 4 hours yesterday and 2 hours today (just check camelotheral).
Euro uptime is better than US uptime.

Only because the US go through patchs that might have unseen bugs in, then they fix these (server downtime) they then send the fixed patchs to goa because they are so far behind. This way goa have a working patch so dont have to bring servers down for fixes (usualy )

 

[Cyfr]

Originally posted by old.yaruar
in fact most french people speak another language almost fluently, most english people can't even speak english.....

English is easy to learn!11

 

[Sibanac]

Originally posted by old.yaruar
But you can't have one person per language full time, that would be one person per language during business hours 5 days a week.

If you wanted 24/7 coverage you would have to look at shift work which would mean a minimum of 4 per language (can't remember exact laws in europe on shift working atm)
Which would cost the company at least half a million euros a year in extra costs ballpark...

24 hours support is exceptionally costly with very few returns.

4 per language, you need atleast 3 * 8 hour shift + weekends, generaly it boils down to teams of 7-8 people.
Add to that all the shift a weekend bonuses and you are looking at paying about 15-20 wages

 

[tildson]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Give ingame CSR's

Originally posted by Sibanac
I would + the fact that to set up 24/7 support facilitys it would cost alot more then what you seem to think.

As for lots of maintance and ld's, US probebly has more maintanance downtime then we do
As for LD's I dont think I had more then 5 days of connection problems then where not due to my ISP

More maintenance due to alot of patches, you also get noticed before it happends - if not, a notice on the herald is quickly brought up about the happening.

Not even close they've got the same high amount of LD's we got, and if they happend - 90% of the times are with a notice either ingame or on herald.

Yes, the last 5days has been allright, but the game have been out for almost 2years now.

Try US, the support is so much better. Too bad most of your friends and primetime is here in Europe, a shame because the patching is really really nice - so is over 10+ english servers, 2rp, 1pvp and 1co-op.

Dont pity GOA, why on earth do you think people are so negative about them all the time?

 

[Falcon]

FYI US servers was down during 4 hours yesterday and 2 hours today (just check camelotheral).
Euro uptime is better than US uptime.

Difference is, US downtime is scheduled, euro suffers from random crashes, unscheduled and unannounced downtime - I've yet to encounter any unsheduled downtime on US, at worst only extensions to planned downtime.

 

[old.mattshanes]

The game really does need them no matter what costs it takes, it would be far much better and make customers much more happier, who likes logging onto a site and waiting upto 3 days or so for a problem to be solved then realise it's not what you asked for? I would really love to see it happen.

 

[old.yaruar]

3 workers can work a maximon of 144 hours a week and even without considering overlapping of shifts you woulld still need to bring someone in for 24 hours a week.

Bearing in mind the longest shift a night worker can do is 8 hours every 24 hour period and there are rules for amounts of days worked a week most night shift workers won't be working 48 hours, most closer to 36, maybe 40.

This means that to give a full weeks support you will need 4 people per server.

As I said, multiple language support is a possibility which might get the numbers down.
But also there will need to be a team leader hired and associated higher HR costs and other assorted costs.
Salaries of 25k euros a year on average + company/hr costs and national taxation will add up.

All in all I personally estimate the total cost of 24/7 csr's would be a 15 percent increase in subscription costs per account, minimum.

OF course I can't do a better breakdown as I don't know the company costs, but I think my estimates are rather conservative especially as france has militant unions who keep their employment law as worker beneficial as possible.

Bored at work and trying to work out my own problems of shifting my company to 24/7 support...

kids don't become IT managers, it's not worth it! although I will have minions soon and working nights I can play daoc on company time.

edit - tired and not reading