George Best

[rynnor]

Yes, hes had it 3 years and AFAIK the liver still works perfectly. How terrible of him.

You dont think alcohol is contra-indicated by the immuno-suppressant's hes taking then...

The assesment of living 5 years is not just an assesment of the chances of the liver transplants sucess but would also include the chances of the person drinking himself to death during those 5 years.

 

[Ch3tan]

He hasnt drunk himself to death. For the last bloody time, he is ill because his immune system is low due to the drugs he is taking to stop his liver being rejected. As such his kidney has become infected.

You can spout all you want, but dont ignore what is actually happening.

 

[rynnor]

He hasnt drunk himself to death. For the last bloody time, he is ill because his immune system is low due to the drugs he is taking to stop his liver being rejected. As such his kidney has become infected.

You can spout all you want, but dont ignore what is actually happening.

Maybe I should dumb down my previous post for you - too many long words perhaps?

 

[Tom]

Some of them weren't long enough, if you look closely.

 

[Louster]

Louster, if you had the money through working hard, would you wait to die, or would you pay up? Why would you bother working harder for money if you didn't get benefits like this in the first place? Lastly, can you think of a better system for meriting people than the open market place?

I was mainly arguing a completely irrelevant side-issue: that the link between earning money and 'being entitled' to a better standard of living only makes sense if we live in a society that perfectly scales income with merit. Which is clearly not the case, pretty much no matter how you actually define something as subjective and fuzzy as 'merit'. The open market basically rewards people who are good at exploiting other people, and 'being good at exploiting others' doesn't really seem like a great way of defining 'merit'.

And no, right off the top of my head I can't come up with any practical alternatives - but my point is that you can't say that working hard directly leads to having more money in this system, nor can you say that succeeding within this system 'entitles' (on some sort of righteous moral level) you to a better standard of living without basing that on the belief that this system is some sort of perfectly realised ideal.

 

[MrHorus]

How many people in this thread smoke cigarettes? If its so fucking easy to give up, why don't you?

Been there done that, thanks.

And yes for the record, it *WAS* pretty easy.

 

[Tom]

Been there done that, thanks.

And yes for the record, it *WAS* pretty easy.

And yet, despite it being easy for you - there are millions of other people for whom giving up smoking is impossibly difficult. IMO alcohol is no different.

 

[JBP|]

Been there done that, thanks.

And yes for the record, it *WAS* pretty easy.

I agree, i smoked 20-30 a day for the best part of 20 years and allways thought i couldn't give up.


Untill i did one day about 5 months ago:kissit:

 

[haarewin]

I agree, i smoked 20-30 a day for the best part of 20 years and allways thought i couldn't give up.


Untill i did one day about 5 months ago:kissit:

still plenty of time for a relapse. it usually takes 3 attempts to give up smoking - the first may last for a while then relapse. the second is much shorter before the relapse, then finally, on the third attempt, people successfully give up. dont mean to piss on your parade though. if you stay off the cigs, good for you.

being an alcoholic is enough to 'rewire' your brains chemistry so that removing the alcohol completely would actually kill a lot of heavy alcoholics. they have to be weened off with other similarly functioning drugs.

i'm tired of hearing about george best too. 'the sun' will no doubt print a 10 page story about him being one of "england's sporting heroes", and as a role model because he slept with loads of women, completely ignoring his alcohol dependancy, which, in my opinion, is his most salient characteristic.

 

[Scouse]

And yet, despite it beingk easy for you - there are millions of other people for whom giving up smoking is impossibly difficult. IMO alcohol is no different.

I know maybe 7 or 8 people who have given up smoking and I know loads of people who keep trying but fail.

The difference in every single case is that the 7 or 8 people all have very strong wills. In their life when they make decisions they follow through with them. None are prone to any sort of depression or any sort of illnesses where they feel "overwhelmed". They're active people who try to achieve things and feel empowered by the decisions they make for themselves and, unless they've made a stupid mistake, stick by them.

Without exception those who I know who fail (like my mum) all have one thing in common - weak wills.

Sorry if that sounds really insulting to whoever is trying to give up here. The fact that they try and fail doesn't make them bad people - it just means that they're more suceptible to the trials of everyday life and less able to cope without some sort of chemical crutch.

George Best is one of these people. I believe what separates the good footballers from the great are acts of will and the ability to make decisions better and faster than others. The problem is that Geprge Best was a man of such incredible will on the pitch and he was rightly celebrated for that, however, he's no longer exceptional. He's an average joe made humble by a disease that humbles average joes the world over.

I don't wish him pain, or death, or anything bad at all. I just wish he'd get out of the fucking papers because he's not special any more...

 

[yaruar]

I know maybe 7 or 8 people who have given up smoking and I know loads of people who keep trying but fail.

The difference in every single case is that the 7 or 8 people all have very strong wills. In their life when they make decisions they follow through with them. None are prone to any sort of depression or any sort of illnesses where they feel "overwhelmed". They're active people who try to achieve things and feel empowered by the decisions they make for themselves and, unless they've made a stupid mistake, stick by them.

Without exception those who I know who fail (like my mum) all have one thing in common - weak wills.

Sorry if that sounds really insulting to whoever is trying to give up here. The fact that they try and fail doesn't make them bad people - it just means that they're more suceptible to the trials of everyday life and less able to cope without some sort of chemical crutch.

George Best is one of these people. I believe what separates the good footballers from the great are acts of will and the ability to make decisions better and faster than others. The problem is that Geprge Best was a man of such incredible will on the pitch and he was rightly celebrated for that, however, he's no longer exceptional. He's an average joe made humble by a disease that humbles average joes the world over.

I don't wish him pain, or death, or anything bad at all. I just wish he'd get out of the fucking papers because he's not special any more...

The way i see it giving up any addiction is a very cut and dry thing.

If you genuinely want to give up, then you will and you can. If there is any doubt in your mind (or say, you actually enjoy the addiction, feel you need it) then you will never be free of it.

I went from being a borderline alcoholic (minimum of 2 bottles of wine a night, up to 15-25 pints+spirits on a night out) to hardly drinking at all. I did that by realising i didn't want to do it any more. If i still enjoyed it or got anything from it i'd be hitting the vodka at 8am by now.
Smoking on the other hand is proving to be a bitch to give up, but that's because i genuinely enjoy it!

 

[Scouse]

The way i see it giving up any addiction is a very cut and dry thing.

If you genuinely want to give up, then you will and you can. If there is any doubt in your mind (or say, you actually enjoy the addiction, feel you need it) then you will never be free of it.

Smoking on the other hand is proving to be a bitch to give up, but that's because i genuinely enjoy it!

I think that's bob on - and it fits in with what I said - you come across as a kinda no-pussying about genuine kind of person in your posts. If you make a decision you probably stick to it - and somewhere inside you've decided that you like fags too much to give up just yet

The problem with giving up fags (as I see it) is - you don't get the hangovers or terrible memory loss or any of the bad things that you get with alcohol. Damage by fags is farrrrrr worse - you just can't see it until you're already dying of a smoking-related disease

 

[supersaint]

I know loads of smokers who cough and splutter first thing in the morning until they have a fag,sounds bad to me.

 

[MrHorus]

And yet, despite it being easy for you - there are millions of other people for whom giving up smoking is impossibly difficult. IMO alcohol is no different.

And if in a Utopian world lung cancer patients who smoke were offered donar lungs on the condition that they stopped smoking yet continued to do so, I would equally have little sympathy.

 

[Tom]

To some people, thats like asking them to stop breathing. Its that difficult.

 

[Athan]

How about I express kind of the same sentiments as the original poster, but say it like this:

Can the news.bbc.co.uk team please stop posting stories about George Best's health. And certainly stop making them the HEADLINE FUCKING STORY.

thanks,

-Ath, who doesn't give a toss about GB one way or the other, but really wishes news.bbc.co.uk had a cookie for "none of that annoying celebratory health status, marriage status, whatever status bullshit please"

 

[Athan]

He hasnt drunk himself to death. For the last bloody time, he is ill because his immune system is low due to the drugs he is taking to stop his liver being rejected. As such his kidney has become infected.

You can spout all you want, but dont ignore what is actually happening.

On the other hand ... if the reason he had the transplant is largely because of excessive drinking, then you can infer that he's on the anti-rejection drugs due to his past drinking, and thus his current kidney infection is due to his past drinking, and thus his imminent death is due to his past drinking.

Not that I'm saying it's sensible to infer all that, but ....

-Ath

 

[Damini]

I'd be very, very, mind bogglingly surprised if alcohol consumption has played absolutely no part at all in his decline. Its understandable the doctor isn't implicating it in any way - firstly, if he's treated Best throughout then he's not going to wish to undermine his own decision to do so, and secondly, it's not the the nicest thing to have someone on their death bed and tell the world "He Did It To Himself", and thirdly, it's probably one of an array of reasons why he's ill (though you could have trouble telling where one scenario began and another ended).

From my experience with alcoholics in my family circle, one died, and one nearly died and is now tee total, due to bleeding out. One from every pore, like an ebola victim, and one from varicose veins in the throat, causing her to vomit a couple of pints of blood in a carpark. Hemorrhaging is very common in alcoholics. If this is the final complication that George Best cannot over come, I personally would find it very odd for this to have had absolutely no relation to his alcohol intake.

I'm not saying one hundred percent I believe alcohol is responsible before the traditional tearing apart of words commences, I'm just saying me, I'd be surprised if it wasn't a contributing factor.

 

[GDW]

How about I express kind of the same sentiments as the original poster, but say it like this:

Can the news.bbc.co.uk team please stop posting stories about George Best's health. And certainly stop making them the HEADLINE FUCKING STORY.

thanks,

-Ath, who doesn't give a toss about GB one way or the other, but really wishes news.bbc.co.uk had a cookie for "none of that annoying celebratory health status, marriage status, whatever status bullshit please"

Unlike you there are a lot of people who do care and are interested so have a bit of fucking respect, and read your online news from another source.

 

[Whipped]

Now this thread can end.

 

[Moving Target]

Unlike you there are a lot of people who do care and are interested so have a bit of fucking respect, and read your online news from another source.

Can someone explain why we should respect an idiot? And I don't see why it needs quite so much coverage on the news.

 

[Athan]

Unlike you there are a lot of people who do care and are interested so have a bit of fucking respect, and read your online news from another source.

I believe I showed no disrespect to George Best at all.

I did however express my wish that the BBC would stop making such a deal out of his current condition.

I furthermore expressed a wish for them to make it generally possible to filter out all such celebrity stories on their site.

-Ath

 

[big_ish]

Possibly because he was one of the; if not the, best footballers of all time. And although I don't have huge amounts of sympathy for him, as he got a second chance that most of us wouldn't have, and blew it I am saddened to hear the news that he has now died.

 

[GDW]

I believe I showed no disrespect to George Best at all.

I did however express my wish that the BBC would stop making such a deal out of his current condition.

I furthermore expressed a wish for them to make it generally possible to filter out all such celebrity stories on their site.

-Ath

That is correct. You are however showing disrespect to people who do care. I live on the same estate were he grew up an personally know George's father and other members of his family. Hence I care.

 

[TdC]

In 1969 I gave up women and alcohol. It was the worst 20 minutes of my life!

Mr Best is dead. Finish with the nasty and let the man RIP.

 

[GDW]

Can someone explain why we should respect an idiot? And I don't see why it needs quite so much coverage on the news.

I respect him for what he did for kids growing up in the 1960s and 1970s and what he did for football. I have met him several times and he was anything but an idiot. Clearly you are.

 

[throdgrain]

Yeah but was his mrs a slapper ?

 

[Ctuchik]

well hes dead now, so all u retards can go piss on his grave in a few days...


R.I.P George!

 

[GDW]

Yeah but was his mrs a slapper ?

No, but they were all sluts I believe

 

[Athan]

No, but they were all sluts I believe

Says the person berating me for lack of respect.

-Ath