Politics General Election 2017

[Job]

People act like there was no legal path to challenge these problems before.
It is a poster child legislation and like all 'celebrity' events it attracts the high profile cases, as soon as it was introduced an army of lawyers set up camp to exploit its powers and status to make themselves a fortune.
It is damned by its own profile to be the last stand on the edge of the law vs morality.

 

[Hawkwind]

The amount of tax payers' money directly spent on losing ECHR cases is trivial Human rights cases in Europe have cost Britain more than £4m, mainly because, we have a Human Rights Act of our own. Most cases that the press moan about as imposition from Strasbourg are nothing of the sort because they're being tried in British courts; very few (since 1998) have to get kicked up to Europe. £4M is fuck all.

The indirect costs of having to put in new processes to give people protections under the ECHR is much higher, but in most of these cases that's exactly as it should be; Britain (like most countries) is often Kafka-esque when it comes to dealing with the state, so things like the Data Protection Act and Freedom of Information Act, have all been informed by the HRA.

Finally, there is some accounting for local needs, The Court of Human Rights gives a ‘margin of appreciation’ to member states to allow for political and cultural variations between the 47 different countries that have signed up to the Convention on Human Rights. It’s also applied where the Court considers that national authorities are better placed to make assessments of proportionality about rights protection.

Thanks, admittedly I was not aware of that. Good move and should help. FYI the case I referred to happened in the 90's whilst living in Romsey for a short time, started in local rag but went national. Tried to find something on the web but nothing seems to exist. Lots of issues back then with Farmers and others abusing Planning regs and using ECHR to get around it. As said a few times, was never against ECHR.

 

[Bodhi]

I see Corbyn and his crew have started promising the land of milk and honey again - pay rises for the NHS, free bursaries etc. All sounds very good, but any suggestion of how he's going to pay for it? Other than squeezing "the rich" (which is now anyone over 70k, which will go down well in London, and with lots of NHS Staff) until their pips squeak/they fuck off to live somewhere else?

 

[Embattle]

Oh yes it is all going to come from stopping the planned cut in corporation tax

 

[Bodhi]

Someone might want to tell them that since Corporation Tax has gone down, Corporation Tax Receipts have gone up

 

[Embattle]

You could but I suspect it will fall on deaf ears.

 

[Raven]

I think the thing with Labour is that deep down they know they can only ever be in power when times are good and their excesses are not felt as hard, by the time they have sold off the family silver there is a general election and someone else can clean up after them.

It's probably why they have been in suicide mode for the last 6 years or so, so long as they stay in opposition they are golden because when things start looking up again they can make an effort.

 

[Tom]

Someone might want to tell them that since Corporation Tax has gone down, Corporation Tax Receipts have gone up

Is that true?

Have corporation tax receipts really risen?

 

[Gumbo]

i don't know if it's true or not NOW, as that 2 year old article even excuses itself for using year old data...

Perhaps someone could find up to date data.

Doesn't matter that much anyway. No one cares as Labour could make any old shit up about how they will pay for stuff, and I have no doubt that they will.

Fact is, low rates of corp tax help the growth of business, which long term is what helps to pay for shit.

 

[Bodhi]

Is that true?

Have corporation tax receipts really risen?

The ONS would suggest that it is indeed the case.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...poration_Tax_Statistics_August_2016_FINAL.pdf

 

[Tom]

I think what I'm asking is, are the companies with the broadest shoulders really paying more in corporation tax? The article I posted says not, but I'm no accountant (and don't wish to be).

No doubt corporate tax evasion is a difficult problem to solve, but if someone is actually talking about it while campaigning (I doubt May is) then they'd be more likely to get my vote.

 

[Bodhi]

Corporate Tax Evasion is an easy problem to solve, as it is illegal, and should be clamped down on, no question. Corporate Tax Avoidance (or Tax Management) is entirely sensible, and I would have no interest in working for a company that didn't arrange it's affairs to be tax efficient if I'm honest. Some companies do take the piss (Starbucks, Guardian Media Group), but overall I really don't think it is the issue that is protrayed in the media. Corporation Tax is only a small part of these companies' contribution to the Exchequer, there's also Income Tax, VAT on products sold, CGT for shareholders, rates, etc etc.

What doesn't help is the media's cack handed protrayal of the figures to provoke maximum outrage. Take the stories on Amazon - they bring in around £6 billion a year in revenue in the UK, but becuase they spend so much on promotion, RnD, new services etc, they only make about £36 million in profit here, and quite correctly, pay tax based on that. Yet if you read some of the wailing in the press, you'd think tax was worked out on the £6 billion figure, when it isn't, and never should be.

 

[Tom]

I don't think Amazon is a particularly useful example of honesty. Only after intense pressure have they begun to record sales in the UK (formerly they went to the Netherlands). And when large corporations based in countries with low tax offer expensive loans and services to their branches (all owned by the same people) in countries with higher tax rates, you have to question why these arrangements are allowed to continue.

I think it's fair enough that companies pay only the tax that's legally due, but when they employ artificial structures to reduce that bill further, while enjoying everything that's paid for by people who don't have that option (you and me), their executives should be made to answer. Preferably from their own pockets, while in a prison cell.

Oh and I think tax havens should be consigned to history.

 

[Bodhi]

I don't think Amazon is a particularly useful example of honesty. Only after intense pressure have they begun to record sales in the UK (formerly they went to the Netherlands). And when large corporations based in countries with low tax offer expensive loans and services to their branches (all owned by the same people) in countries with higher tax rates, you have to question why these arrangements are allowed to continue.

I think it's fair enough that companies pay only the tax that's legally due, but when they employ artificial structures to reduce that bill further, while enjoying everything that's paid for by people who don't have that option (you and me), their executives should be made to answer. Preferably from their own pockets, while in a prison cell.

Oh and I think tax havens should be consigned to history.

They actually took advantage of a scheme set up by the government of Luxembourg so Tech companies could base themselves there - that scheme has been closed and Luxembourg are about to get a slap on the wrist for illegal state aid - but if you look at Amazon worldwide, their profits are tiny for the size of company they have - 1 - 3% margin, tops. This isn't reduced using fancy schemes or anything - it is reduced by investing in new stuff (Amazon Video/Music, Amazon Air, the drones, Amazon Fresh etc etc etc). If you look at their accounts, the outgoings are all Sales, Marketing and Research, all of which they can write off against tax.

Personally I don't see the issue with that approach, considering all that cash they invest goes straight back into the local economy (they spent £4 billion in promotion in the UK alone last year).

 

[Embattle]

Reality Check: How much will Labour's NHS plans cost? - BBC News

 

[Raven]

They actually took advantage of a scheme set up by the government of Luxembourg so Tech companies could base themselves there - that scheme has been closed and Luxembourg are about to get a slap on the wrist for illegal state aid - but if you look at Amazon worldwide, their profits are tiny for the size of company they have - 1 - 3% margin, tops. This isn't reduced using fancy schemes or anything - it is reduced by investing in new stuff (Amazon Video/Music, Amazon Air, the drones, Amazon Fresh etc etc etc). If you look at their accounts, the outgoings are all Sales, Marketing and Research, all of which they can write off against tax.

Personally I don't see the issue with that approach, considering all that cash they invest goes straight back into the local economy (they spent £4 billion in promotion in the UK alone last year).

hmmm, Luxembourg tax swindles you say? Didn't some guy involved in the EU protect them with his life? Can't remember his name but he has a look on his face that suggests he wets the bed on a regular basis.

 

[Job]

Isnt it boring now Trump has gone all normal and Farage has faded away.

 

[Scouse]

Normal??!

 

[Raven]

Yup, back to normal.

President Trump: Seven ways the world has changed - BBC News

But fuck it, it's not like the world was full of rainbows before Trump...

 

[Hawkwind]

Brexit: Chancellor Merkel warns UK on scope of talks with EU - BBC News

In essence the sentiment appears to be that we (EU member states) are so gonna fuck you over!

 

[Raven]

Fuck'um.

 

[Tom]

IMO it's all just pre-fight talk, like a boxing match press conference. When it comes down to it, everyone wants a good deal for all sides and that's what they'll go for. Nobody is going to stand up and say "victory, we shat on the UK so now our exports to them will plummet!"

 

[fettoken]

Fuck'um.

Agree. Really starting to dislike Merkel more consistently nowadays.

 

[Raven]

Her problem is that she is unpopular in Germany and soon to be joining job club. She has no choice but to wave her penis about.

 

[DaGaffer]

Her problem is that she is unpopular in Germany and soon to be joining job club. She has no choice but to wave her penis about.

Er, wut? She has a 60% approval rating. Or did a month ago.

 

[Raven]

Shame that it's not translating into political support.

 

[DaGaffer]

Shame that it's not translating into political support.

CDU are ahead in the polls as well, not by much admittedly, but they'd probably still win an election right now. Merkel isn't looking at the dole queue just yet.

 

[BloodOmen]

Interesting

The Tories' poll lead just dropped by seven points

 

[Embattle]

I guess but to me it shows just how bad labour are considering what the Tories aren't promising and what Labour are even if a person actually believes they can delivery it.

 

[Moriath]

Tories can give away 15 points and still win