Gay priests, bishops etc etc

[Furr]

Well since this hasn't come up yet, what are your thoughts on gay priests, bishops etc etc

Should the Church adhere to the bible or should it not? Was the Vatican right to send out its memo telling people that homosexuality is evil.

Since most of you are either atheist or agnostic (including me) it would be intresting to see what you lot think.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

I think it's funny watching the kerfuffle.

 

[Yoni]

well I come from a staunch catholic background and I can see what my parents will be saying however I believe as long as the bishop / vicar indulges in sexual practices which are safe consensual and fun then I really am not bothered about their sexual preferences.

 

[(Shovel)]

Originally posted by Wazzerphuk
I think it's funny watching the kerfuffle.

Agreed. And I'm officially a Catholic. (as documented in another thread).

It could, in the end, do a lot of good for the church. With so many other "unpopular" areas of Christianity it is purely down to individual opinions, but this actually poses a real challange in that - frankly - it's wrong. There's no way you can actually sustain a debate stating that homosexuality is evil.

Personally, although change wont come any time soon, the performance and dedication of the first homosexual bishops will probably have a massive influence on the future of the Christian (not just Anglican) faith.

In that respect, it's extremely disappointing for those of more liberal mindset that Dr John dropped out of the pressure. So long as he had faith in his ability in his role, he was in a position to prove what is a massive point to the "old churches".

 

[Scooba Da Bass]

As I understand it he's an Episcolian and there's no real anti homosexuality message according to their interpretation of the NT other than from Paul and John, Paul basically saying "Jewish law sucks, except for that one part prohibiting homosexuality." John's contribution, it's part of the Book of Revelation, which I think speaks for itself. The book of Revelation might as well have been called "The book of John's trippy ass dream." None of them alluded to Christ, and if it isn't directly from the big man, it's not Christianity. You can follow Paulism all you want, but the guy had a thing for turning his own bias into pointless and strict tradition. Episcopalians are one of the few religious groups out there that follow Christ's supreme law:

A new Commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another. Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength. This is the first Commandment. And the second is like unto it, namely this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other Commandment greater than these. On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets

The allegations of his abuse came from the more religiously orthodox factions and seemed like a desperate last stance which kinda failed since he was confirmed today.

 

[(Shovel)]

Good quote Scoob.

Kinda sums it up really. I know that it is common feeling that "all Christians believe the Bible", but that isn't the case. The thing is, it does contradict, and those who follow Christianity in any way have to live with that. Some people flounder around and say: "Errr well.. errr... mysterious ways yeah?".
Other people can stand up, go "yep, fair cop, but that is the bit that matters to me". If more people made a point of doing that, being themselves and representing their faith not their religion, things would be altogether closer to hunky dorey.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Originally posted by Y0ni
well I come from a staunch catholic background and I can see what my parents will be saying however I believe as long as the bishop / vicar indulges in sexual practices which are safe consensual and fun then I really am not bothered about their sexual preferences.

You think the church care if sex is fun?

 

[Ono]

I think it highlights how hypocritical and lost the Church has become these days.

How the fuck are they suppose to set an example as the leading religion in the Western world when you can't get your own house in order and decide on a single unified standpoint?

No wonder people think the Church is a joke these days.

The devil must be pissing himself.

 

[Tom]

If the Church had its way we'd still be burning heretics.

 

[Scooba Da Bass]

It's great that there's idiots on both sides, religious fools are strictly orthodox and take the bible as word, non religious fools make statements like;

If the Church had its way we'd still be burning heretics.

 

[Ash!]

I think it shows how behind the times and out of touch the church really are. At the end of the day the Vicar, Preist or whoever should be the spiritual focal point for the parish.

It does not make any sense to judge sombodys ability to preach the word of the bible just because of their sexuality. The problem I have is that most organised religions like to take the moral high ground and never change some of their principals. Just because the bible said a few thousand years ago it was wrong to be homesexual it does not mean it is still true today.

Its like when everybody believed the earth was the centre of the universe and it was flat. Science had to finally get off its perch and concede that it maybe wrong. Why cant religion be the same ??

Speaking as a buddhist of course

 

[Scooba Da Bass]

You need to understand that there are hundreds of different churches; Lutherian, Episcopal, Presbytarian, Catholic, CoE, and a million others. Saying 'the church' makes NO sense whatsoever unless you point out who you're talking about.

That the Episcopal church have ordained an openly gay man suggests they are one of the more progressive (or heritical if you believe the Pope) churches out there.

 

[leggy]

Originally posted by Wazzerphuk
You think the church care if sex is fun?

god dammit, that was the first thing I noticed when reading this thread.

I'm always too slow

 

[throdgrain]

I think they shouldnt have gay priests. Im an atheist as I said before, so I don't really care, but the point is if they go about beliving everything in the bible, they must surely do as it says.
Mind you, if the bible doesnt actually say that Id reconsider my
arguement, but as I dont know ...

 

[Embattle]

Like all things in the media this story has been given far too much importance, although its matched by the David Kelly story and so called global warming etc.

 

[doh_boy]

I'm a practising catholic and here are my views

1) As far as I'm aware the church never says something is evil they'll say something is a sin but there's a whole world of difference.

2) The act of homosexual sex is a sin due to the fact that it isn't reproduction. (The assumption is that it is therefore only for fun). Basically any sex that is recreational is a sin (the argument is that your life and thus your body is a gift from god and you're abusing it and the other persons [body]). So in reality I try to ensure that any contact of that kind is done (by me) for a serious emotional reason rather than for fun (or whatever). Since it's been proven that homosexual relationships are just as serious as hetrosexual the infered 'homosexual sex is recreational' is proven false.

[So basically (as far as I'm aware) the act of homosexual sex is 'outlawed' in the bible just as sex out of wedlock (marriage) is.]

3)The fact that a person is sexually attracted to a person of the same sex doesn't matter if there is no sex. so as such (in the catholic church) homosexual clergy is no problem.

4)In my opinion my religion is a set of rules for me and nobody else. Pretty much everything Jesus said has the message 'Don't judge other people let god do that at the end of time' in it somewhere. So basically anything other people do 'as long as it doesn't impact on other people' is their business.

 

[Tom]

Say what you like about different churches, ask most people in this country what 'The Church' means, and they'll probably say the same things. Who gives a shite about different churches, they're all worshipping the same thing, only in different ways.

They're all a bunch of hypocrites, its all meaningless shite so far as I'm concerned, if I believe in an afterlife then thats between me and the almighty, I don't need some ancient relic of the past to be a middle-man.

 

[Ono]

Tom.

Your sig.

Is that referring to me?

 

[Tom]

www.natural-selection.org

 

[Summo]

Hey, gay Bishops! Get back to Russia, ya son-of-a-bitch!

 

[Scooba Da Bass]

Originally posted by Tom[SHOTTEH]
Say what you like about different churches, ask most people in this country what 'The Church' means, and they'll probably say the same things. Who gives a shite about different churches, they're all worshipping the same thing, only in different ways.[/quote

So because you and a lot of stupid people fail to understand the differences that makes it a bad thing for educated people to point out the flaws in the view?

They're all a bunch of hypocrites, its all meaningless shite so far as I'm concerned, if I believe in an afterlife then thats between me and the almighty, I don't need some ancient relic of the past to be a middle-man.

Jolly good for you, I'm glad you believe that people should be free to worship as they choose without being condemned as idiots because their views on theology are diffrent to yours, oh wait....

 

[Arnor]

dont care either way, but its retarded to refuse to hire ppl because they are gay.

 

[Ono]

Originally posted by Arnor
dont care either way, but its retarded to refuse to hire ppl because they are gay.

What about gay asylum seekers?

 

[Arnor]

Originally posted by Ono
What about gay asylum seekers?

dont care dont care dont care

 

[DaGaffer]

Personally I've never understood why all you Charlie Church types feel the need to have a man in a frock to preach to you every Sunday anyway, but well, each to their own.

As for all the hoo-haa with the Episcopalians/CofE - so what if there's a schism and the hardliners/evangelists (who really make me nervous) go off and form their own church? That's how the CofE got formed in the first place! Let 'em go I say - clearly they have their prejudices and (as often happens) are selecting the relevant bits of the bible (in particular OT Leviticus) to justify those prejudices. There isn't much reasoning with that kind of attitude and so its not worth worrying about.

 

[Jonny_Darko]

It was really weird a couple of weeks ago when this kicked off.

I couldn't believe they were making the fuss about it. I guess because I'm a groovy liberal type I expected everyone would be the same. It's hard to believe that in Britain in 2003 we're still so effing backward as to let something pathetic like this upset us.

I mean this thing about gay bishops is so stupid. We've always known that a fair proportion of them are a) homosexual and b) attracted to altar boys anyway. I know I'd rather have gay priests than peado-priests so kick out the pervs and welcome the gays into the profession with open arms I say.

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by Scooba Da Bass
Jolly good for you, I'm glad you believe that people should be free to worship as they choose without being condemned as idiots because their views on theology are diffrent to yours, oh wait....

I'm not saying its because I fail to understand the differences, I'm saying that most people don't care, an opinion which hardly makes somebody 'stupid'. I'm sure I could use my own knowledge on a particular subject you're not interested in, and say the same about yourself, but that would be pointless.

For what its worth, if people want to worship, I don't have a problem with that, but I'm perfectly entitled to think they're stupid just because they would rather follow a book of teachings written thousands of years ago, then listen to common sense (on the gay matter).

 

[Jonny_Darko]

What is the name for someone who hates all religion and thinks man will never learn to live together in peace and better ourselves until we wipe out all religion and start taking resonsibility for our own actions?

'Cos that's what I am.

Is that an agnostic? If not what am I?

 

[Will]

An atheist is someone who doesn't believe in the existance of God (or G-d, Gaia, or any divine being). An agnostic is unsure of the existance of God.

Gay priests, bishops etc, all fine by me. Excellent quote from Scooba, sums things up nicely.

 

[Furr]

Originally posted by Jonny_Darko
What is the name for someone who hates all religion and thinks man will never learn to live together in peace and better ourselves until we wipe out all religion and start taking resonsibility for our own actions?

'Cos that's what I am.

Is that an agnostic? If not what am I?

A realist