FotM Whine Thread

Jaem-

Can't get enough of FH
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Dukat said:
its not so bad with the 50 slash, as i depend less on blocks and more on damage I find it easier to deal with DW classes, but there is still the fact that rangers and hunters are slightly more melee oriented classes than scouts.

Ranger:
DW
Self buffs
EDIT:SpeedBurst

Hunter:
Spear
Pet
SelfBuffs
SpeedBurst

Scout:
Shield (halved by dw)
+200units range

Out of the above bonuses scouts are the class that leans towards ranged bonuses rather than melee bonuses. Shield is ok for melee but 1hand damage is always going to be less than 2hand/DW.

again these views are only my opinion

EDIT: just checking a char builder... rangers get speedburst too? didnt know that :O

Speed shout abit overrated, just about everything breaks it I found on hunter. :p
Self buffs only effect unbotted players, which is saddly a small amount, which would prob make them better then scouts in unbuffed vs unbuffed fights.

Forgot to mention Spec af is another bonus, maybe not a class feature but still there.

Whats the difference? duel weild dmg dealer, 2hd+pet dmg dealer, defencive dmg dealer.

Abilty to deal and take dmg is quite nice.

BUUUUT.. back on topic.. was about whines! Whine away everyone :D
 

Dukat

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Jaem- said:
BUUUUT.. back on topic.. was about whines! Whine away everyone :D

omg it was meant to be about why ppl whine all of a sudden :(

scouts having shield or +200units range is not new, yet we get whined at
sorcs doing what they do isnt all that new, but they get whined at
'Albion zerging' is an old whine, why is it suddenly fashionable again :(

whats next? "omg smite clerics how can you live with your ubar instamezz" ?

or are we going to whine at armsmen for having plate?
 

Matmardigan

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Dukat said:
whats next? "omg smite clerics how can you live with your ubar instamezz" ?

respeced my rejuv cleric 2 full smite with NF, and be sure, smite clerics dont get any whine threads, THEY SUX, whine :(
 

Vodkafairy

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nerf rr2 mongoloid minstrels being able to insta stun and/or interrupt anyone regardless of class, rank, equipment and ml

nerf mincer mezz being uninterruptable when its halfway through playing

nerf every interrupting insta spell

nerf charge, once its on there is absolutely no chance anyone can do anything to stop it, lethal against solo elds or small groups

:(

oh and nerf elds :p

edit- nerf rr2-3 scouts being able to hit for 400-600 dmg regular shot, utter pisstake. take away relics completely please
 

Flimgoblin

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I thought scouts and rangers both got 2100 range? and hunters 2000?
(before any toa +%range stuff)
no?
 

Ogen

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Dukat said:
omg it was meant to be about why ppl whine all of a sudden :(

scouts having shield or +200units range is not new, yet we get whined at
sorcs doing what they do isnt all that new, but they get whined at
'Albion zerging' is an old whine, why is it suddenly fashionable again :(

As for the scout thing... In NF range is everything.. and to you ppl who talks about "but scouts do no melee dmg with 42 shield spec.. ok check this out mates... (Slam bow bow bow :touch: )

And for the zerg whines... Zergs can now port.. wich mean they move faster then before.. + i dont think albs usually ran 200+ in their zerg in OF...

Hope this clears out ur head mate. :)

I do not whine, cuz i tend to do allright in rvr.. But this is still sad facts..
 

Jaem-

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Ogen said:
As for the scout thing... In NF range is everything.. and to you ppl who talks about "but scouts do no melee dmg with 42 shield spec.. ok check this out mates... (Slam bow bow bow :touch: )

In open fights, range usualy has nothing extra to add to the fight, going at max range then firing is a waste of time, even if the guy stands still in that time positioning yourself, he'll easily exit the distance you've set yourself, best going about half way so they get shot if they approach get shot if they run. If it a keep fun time leech scout then range probs everything. :p

Slam, Get Add, Interupted, Dead :touch: But I guess ways around it with abilities, but limited. ;o
 

Dukat

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Flimgoblin said:
I thought scouts and rangers both got 2100 range? and hunters 2000?
(before any toa +%range stuff)
no?

afaik it was scouts only, with scouts and rangers sharing only the slowest bow in the game (5.8spd). I think. the people at the critshot forums will know more than me though.
 

Jaem-

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Dukat said:
afaik it was scouts only, with scouts and rangers sharing only the slowest bow in the game (5.8spd). I think. the people at the critshot forums will know more than me though.

Albs have 5.8 spd immolated, believe ranger is 5.6? and hunter about 5.4?
 

Calo

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Dukat said:
<sobs> :(

Its a fact tho, there are more whine threads atm than since i can remember, and no one will tell me why :(

Whine threads are just funny

like post a thread with sorcs are fotm, and u can be 100% u have 10 pages of albs flaming mid chars & ac & ...
its funny ;)

but true its getting bit to much :(
 

Calo

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oh and nerf ppl called Glamis who smite u from eras towers !!
 

Votan

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Iirc scout: 2200 range, ranger 2100 and hunter 2000.
 

Sanzor

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Votan said:
Iirc scout: 2200 range, ranger 2100 and hunter 2000.

Dunno, could be. I just know that range on archers in daoc is scout, ranger and hunter. Hunters having both quickest bows and less range.
It adds up a bit with a 2h weapon and a pet to give enemy players penalties on their defence.

I wont say scouts is overpowered, its just the current "range" system in NF and the relics. Removing relics would be fine for me tbh.
Anyway, don´t think scouts was whined much at in ToA although it gave em increased range and damage.
Currently its just the damn range when being higher above ground >_<

As for Dukat...SBs not build to take on other stealthers seems unlogical to me. What should they take on then? Casters...maybe, but most are grped these days, so not much meat for em. Soloing sorcs? Sure, although they have to be below rr5, else the sb gets owned -_-
Anything called tanks from Albion just pwn sbs.
 

Helme

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Comparing casters range and scouts.

Scouts have base 2200 range on their bows. Casters have 1500 range on their DDs, giving them ~50% advantage (46.7% if you want to be picky). They have 18.9% advantage over bolt casters. So, to be more correct, I should say that scouts have 19-47% advantage over all casters on a level playing field. Now, lets put that Scout in a tower where he has the 500 unit elevation bonus.Now he has 2700 range compared to the 1500/1850 caster range. That translates to a 45.9%-80% range advantage. And if you want to see sick range, a Scout with 10% range and Braggart Bow arrows at the top of a level 10 tower he would have 2200*1.14 + 500 = 3008 range. Add in trueshot and he has 4512 range for a single arrow.
 

Flimgoblin

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Matmardigan said:
respeced my rejuv cleric 2 full smite with NF, and be sure, smite clerics dont get any whine threads, THEY SUX, whine :(

need to group up with smite club sometime :) (which we need to do more of)

we do get whine threads... just from albs for not healing them :(
 

Dukat

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Helme said:
Comparing casters range and scouts.

Scouts have base 2200 range on their bows. Casters have 1500 range on their DDs, giving them ~50% advantage (46.7% if you want to be picky). They have 18.9% advantage over bolt casters. So, to be more correct, I should say that scouts have 19-47% advantage over all casters on a level playing field. Now, lets put that Scout in a tower where he has the 500 unit elevation bonus.Now he has 2700 range compared to the 1500/1850 caster range. That translates to a 45.9%-80% range advantage. And if you want to see sick range, a Scout with 10% range and Braggart Bow arrows at the top of a level 10 tower he would have 2200*1.14 + 500 = 3008 range. Add in trueshot and he has 4512 range for a single arrow.

Have you seen the cost of trueshot? for what it does?

Never mind DD's, what about bolt range? 1875.

and then some Casters also have access to nearsight at 2300 Range (thats 100 more than scouts) on such a fast cast time it may as well almost be an insta. Nearsighting a scout is the quivelant to snapping his bow in half, as after being nearsighted we have to run the 2200 units distance to get into melee.

Casters also have access to defence against scouts, eg. BT, BrittleGuards and pet intecept in some cases. defences alone can make a caster almost as hard as a tank to kill if they have everything up.

Going to compare casters to scouts, you need to cover one of the sore spots for most archers atm : speed (eg. drawspeed or castspeed). castspeed can be decreased by RA's and softcapped stats. drawspeed has a 250 cap, going past this does very little to you drawspeed (afaik). archers cannot reduce drawspeed with RA's, as Mastery of Archery got removed. capped ubar casters can get cast speed REAL low, where as even the best scouts have to stick with a pretty much hard-capped drawspeed.

Another thing, arrows can miss, they can be evaded and they can be blocked. DD's dont miss, they cant be evaded and cant be blocked. add to this the fact that standard bowshots are usually a fair bit lower in damage to DD's, and you see that it isnt just about Range.

I aint too bothered tbh, just hate the scout whines.

Hunters/Rangers can and do play just as well as us scouts and have just as many victorys. in tower fights there isnt alot to choose between a hunter or ranger (or, i would suspect, scout), they each pop out of thin air and hurt u at range, but there are ways around this, eg. Guard, Nearsight, getting under the battlements, etc etc, the tactics are the same for rangers and hunters at range as they are for a scout at range.

atleast thats how i see it
 

Dukat

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Matmardigan said:
respeced my rejuv cleric 2 full smite with NF, and be sure, smite clerics dont get any whine threads, THEY SUX, whine :(

omg... omg.

.......OMG


...OMG!!!11111


smite clerics are walking SB eating machines. I grouped with glamis in Old Frontiers, in my pre-50 days, used to sit at mmg waiting for em, i'd get beat up and glamis would eat the mids :D took 2 mids at once iirc... that was cool :)

Smite clerics are amazing, and they dont get any whine threads because people who get ganked by them dont have the guts to admit it :D
 

Jaem-

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2200 +10% ToA range = 2420 units + whatever tower height bonus gives. Almost covering the gap between tower and keep, so would that mean only defending leech spec scouts are overpowered? :p
 

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