Formal letter sent to GOA.
- Thread starter BimboBane
- Start date
Reading some of these post I get a bit tired
Answer to why we are so full of ourselves etc that we send such a high sounding letter to Goa is that we are acually capable of seeing the difference between the hard working suffering Goa emloyees that some of you are so worried about.
Yes I aggree they are right now working in a nightmare situation and doing the best they can
But - the letter isnt aimed at them - it was written in such a way and adressed in such a formal way just because it is aimed at the company Goa - and this is a completly different thing.
Asking a company for information regarding cause and what steps to prevent futher incidenct like this in not unjustified- especially since this concernes their customers belife in their ability to provide a service.
According to post in this thread Goa states that the only service they are accountable for is our ability to connect - so perhaps we should have adressed the letter to Mythic. When issues like this happens it would be comforting to know that someone feels responible for the storage and maintainance of our accumalated fees and spent time.
Which an SLA would provide.
We do not ask them to garantee that nothing bad will happen to their servers - as people keeps harpening - no one wants to make this kind of statement - However coporate business working in the 21st centuary who want to stay compatible ARE working hard on achiving this.
(as I have work as an accountant for many years - this is something I do know about - even if Im one of those who deep inside thinks that the best medicine for a stubborn computer is a good kick)
So again - we wanted to aim a formal request for information at Goa company asking for information on what happened and bacically what we can expect in the future. We did not state that we were going to take any legal action which some of you seem to think.
But if 400 accounts are in risk of loosing faith in their service and close their accounts and go WoW or other - I as a company would certainly like to know.
And if those 400 accounts take the time and effort to talk about it and then write a couple of drafts before aggreeing on one and send it on by a real live postal service - that is a pretty good statement, dont you think?
And Awarkle - You are the last one ( but not the first - although some of the others at least had the decency to apologies after) in the tread stating something like this
whahhhhhhhh i lost my dummy whahhhhh" its just the "lets hope we get free stuff
Well I lost everything on a completely kitted RM - do you expect me to be happy?
Yesterday I did get back my artifacts
But my sootstained boots/Imolated ring/bracer of heavenly bodies/ beaded resisting stone have not been retured
Again should I be happy over this?
How do you suggest I get a new beaded resisting necklace - It a quest reward ???
Well - some others who lost items like this have gotten them back to I guess that in a couple of more weeks I may be back more or less as I were.
Should I be happy over paying for 4 weeks while my previous efforts and hard work are lost and I also have to keep an eye on what happens with my items?
Dont think so.
And your inuendo that I have falsy and greedely made up claims to get free items (and possibly get to be important through whines at FH) are an insult
and I would appriciate an apolgy from you to all of us who have been hit by the Prydwen incident.
For your own reputainions sake I suggest you find someone whom you trust that have lost items - have gotten the rog jewels and compare those items to my missing stuff, could you possibly be wrong ?
would I really place a false missing report in order to get one of those items intead of the ones I had ?
Owner of 3 Daoc accounts thinking of going all Wow - lagg and all
38 years so old enough to have perspectives on games as well as the value of the money I work to earn
Answer to why we are so full of ourselves etc that we send such a high sounding letter to Goa is that we are acually capable of seeing the difference between the hard working suffering Goa emloyees that some of you are so worried about.
Yes I aggree they are right now working in a nightmare situation and doing the best they can
But - the letter isnt aimed at them - it was written in such a way and adressed in such a formal way just because it is aimed at the company Goa - and this is a completly different thing.
Asking a company for information regarding cause and what steps to prevent futher incidenct like this in not unjustified- especially since this concernes their customers belife in their ability to provide a service.
According to post in this thread Goa states that the only service they are accountable for is our ability to connect - so perhaps we should have adressed the letter to Mythic. When issues like this happens it would be comforting to know that someone feels responible for the storage and maintainance of our accumalated fees and spent time.
Which an SLA would provide.
We do not ask them to garantee that nothing bad will happen to their servers - as people keeps harpening - no one wants to make this kind of statement - However coporate business working in the 21st centuary who want to stay compatible ARE working hard on achiving this.
(as I have work as an accountant for many years - this is something I do know about - even if Im one of those who deep inside thinks that the best medicine for a stubborn computer is a good kick)
So again - we wanted to aim a formal request for information at Goa company asking for information on what happened and bacically what we can expect in the future. We did not state that we were going to take any legal action which some of you seem to think.
But if 400 accounts are in risk of loosing faith in their service and close their accounts and go WoW or other - I as a company would certainly like to know.
And if those 400 accounts take the time and effort to talk about it and then write a couple of drafts before aggreeing on one and send it on by a real live postal service - that is a pretty good statement, dont you think?
And Awarkle - You are the last one ( but not the first - although some of the others at least had the decency to apologies after) in the tread stating something like this
whahhhhhhhh i lost my dummy whahhhhh" its just the "lets hope we get free stuff
Well I lost everything on a completely kitted RM - do you expect me to be happy?
Yesterday I did get back my artifacts
But my sootstained boots/Imolated ring/bracer of heavenly bodies/ beaded resisting stone have not been retured
Again should I be happy over this?
How do you suggest I get a new beaded resisting necklace - It a quest reward ???
Well - some others who lost items like this have gotten them back to I guess that in a couple of more weeks I may be back more or less as I were.
Should I be happy over paying for 4 weeks while my previous efforts and hard work are lost and I also have to keep an eye on what happens with my items?
Dont think so.
And your inuendo that I have falsy and greedely made up claims to get free items (and possibly get to be important through whines at FH) are an insult
and I would appriciate an apolgy from you to all of us who have been hit by the Prydwen incident.
For your own reputainions sake I suggest you find someone whom you trust that have lost items - have gotten the rog jewels and compare those items to my missing stuff, could you possibly be wrong ?
would I really place a false missing report in order to get one of those items intead of the ones I had ?
Owner of 3 Daoc accounts thinking of going all Wow - lagg and all
38 years so old enough to have perspectives on games as well as the value of the money I work to earn
Make no mistake. No one is saying this isn't a disaster on epic proportions (probably the most serious one to hit any of the DAoC servers worldwide), because it is. However, the point is that GOA simply cannot commit to an agreement that things like this never happens again, because nothing is certain in the IT world, regardless of safeguards.
Awarkle
Fledgling Freddie
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- Feb 1, 2004
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- 1,131
did you specifically state the NAMED items that were lost such as quest items dropps and stuff because if im correct goa can replace them as they are flagged in the data base.
and yes i did loose everything off my necromancer and i cant remember what he had on goa refunded me 5k worth of arulite and 5plat which should be enough to get him equiped again. ITs not as if i can remember if i had such items like krojers dex ring etc.
It was only rog drops that were lost.
Personally i would never have posted on freddys house that i had written a letter of complaint. Instead i would have sat on it till i got the reply THEN posted it.
and yes i did loose everything off my necromancer and i cant remember what he had on goa refunded me 5k worth of arulite and 5plat which should be enough to get him equiped again. ITs not as if i can remember if i had such items like krojers dex ring etc.
It was only rog drops that were lost.
Personally i would never have posted on freddys house that i had written a letter of complaint. Instead i would have sat on it till i got the reply THEN posted it.
xxManiacxx
Can't get enough of FH
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- Jan 25, 2004
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Average age of intelligence on these boards are around 10 so when something "grown-up" are being posted they just have to whine on it.
It´s like it´s prohibet to act mature on these boards.
It´s like it´s prohibet to act mature on these boards.
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2003
- Messages
- 5,755
Melachi said:I hope your reply is as entertaining as mine
Ok, a little anger driven ill be the first to admit that, but wait till you see their reply
Threats? Harrasment?
Seriously, this crowd is a bunch of idiots with no training.
I cant wait to see a reply to the formal letter.
Wow, because ofc, you didnt act like a dick.
If I was a GM i'd leave you till last.
Tilda said:
Bit off-topic but is there no way for you moderators to seperate the posts you make as a moderator from the ones you do as a 'normal' user? Like making moderator accounts you can log on when moderating the boards?
Atleast i find it a bit offensive when moderators discuss something with other users and then locks the thread right after they (moderators) answers and by that prevents the other part from posting their view/response (not about this particular thread)...
Not a flame, just an observation...
Esselinithia
Fledgling Freddie
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2003
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- 1,110
Awarkle said:
Lets see a few facts you are missing.
- People who lost items can't play.
- It is a service we pay for. GOA isn't playing a game, they providing a service for our money, and they should follow all laws, regulations, and should behave as a real bussiness
- If you check daoc files, you see references to non-personal accounts, and press people, etc. use daoc to write articles, reviews, etc.
A lot of people play games even at work, since it helps them to focus on something else for a while and start working agin with new fresh thoughts, when they can't fix a bug in their code, have some inactive period but they should stay awake, etc. and in a lot of cases companies willing to finance some of such games, when it is in their best interest. Multiplayer games are also used in team building.
DAoC is a game, like many other games with reliable support but it is also a service offered by a bussiness that you pay for. You pay a lot less for access to vBulletin members are access (and buying daoc and all addons one by one isn't much cheaper than the licence for vbulletin), and yet for your $30 a year, you get good support with vBulletin, even for unsupported versions (say 3.5RC3)
And also: SLA isn't mean: 100% bug free game. It means, we know what to expect from GOA...
Esselinithia
Fledgling Freddie
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- Dec 23, 2003
- Messages
- 1,110
andree said:
If they don't get any money for their work, and we don't pay for using a private forum, and probably GOA doesn't pay for the service, and have no official contract about it, what would you expect? They run their private page as they wish, and if you think they are bad people, you can use other private pages. If you think GOA would need an official forum, where staff has responsibilities, you should let them know.
atos
Fledgling Freddie
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- 2,527
Actually by typing /quest och /journal in your chat window you will see what encounters you have completed. And Goa will be able to just reset all those or just reset them to the point where you go and claim your reward.
I'm not sure they even thought about this possibility.
I'm not sure they even thought about this possibility.
Esselinithia said:
Why cant people who have lost items play? Can you not make a new character?
You pay for the ability to connect to the servers not for your characters or abilities. GOA would be fully entitled to set every back to level one if they really wanted too. obviously it would be commercial suicide but they would be within their rights to do so.
Compensation should be for the time where you could not connect to the server and on top of that lost items should be replaced. i.e. refund for the days you could not connect and characters restored to their prior state. Anything on top of that really is a bonus.
I do empathise with pyrwden people and hope you all get your items back asap, but really cant see the point of going beyond that.
Sorry completely agree with Esselinithia.
Sure, levelling a new toon to lvl 50, fully equip it, get MLs so I have a chance to compete in RvR takes a casual player like myself only a year or so, great idea.
I wonder if this often repeated argument would hold in court. It may be in the CoC but how many times have CoCs or general conditions (the famous small print) been contested in a trial and overturned by a judge? Especially in France which is deemed consumer friendly? Actually we're paying to be able to play our characters in a mmorpg, where the "r" stands for roleplay. Logically roleplay implicates a certain degree of free choice with the tools Mythic/Goa provide. They may claim they own the toons we create (would be interesting to follow the intellectual property rights laws route as well) but actually we create and foster them, so this is an integral part of the game experience we pay for. If they claim the right to take that away from us, the balance of obligations in the contract tilts in favor of the supplier (We pay 12 EURs per month just for the right to connect to an empty server??). There is a general notion in roman/napoleonic contractual law which stipulates that the obligations must be balanced or otherwise the contract is deemed one sided or abusive and as such void. Without being a specialist in French contractual law I'd dare say that this notion is also the guideline for any French judge dealing with consumer matters. Goa can't escape that easily. And you're correct, commercially it would be suicide to limit the game experience even further.
Agree completely, they should increase their efforts to restore the toons, as it's already 14 days wait for some people to be able to play their toons.
Merino/Yeyi
Ballard said:
Sure, levelling a new toon to lvl 50, fully equip it, get MLs so I have a chance to compete in RvR takes a casual player like myself only a year or so, great idea.
Ballard said:
I wonder if this often repeated argument would hold in court. It may be in the CoC but how many times have CoCs or general conditions (the famous small print) been contested in a trial and overturned by a judge? Especially in France which is deemed consumer friendly? Actually we're paying to be able to play our characters in a mmorpg, where the "r" stands for roleplay. Logically roleplay implicates a certain degree of free choice with the tools Mythic/Goa provide. They may claim they own the toons we create (would be interesting to follow the intellectual property rights laws route as well) but actually we create and foster them, so this is an integral part of the game experience we pay for. If they claim the right to take that away from us, the balance of obligations in the contract tilts in favor of the supplier (We pay 12 EURs per month just for the right to connect to an empty server??). There is a general notion in roman/napoleonic contractual law which stipulates that the obligations must be balanced or otherwise the contract is deemed one sided or abusive and as such void. Without being a specialist in French contractual law I'd dare say that this notion is also the guideline for any French judge dealing with consumer matters. Goa can't escape that easily. And you're correct, commercially it would be suicide to limit the game experience even further.
Ballard said:
Agree completely, they should increase their efforts to restore the toons, as it's already 14 days wait for some people to be able to play their toons.
Merino/Yeyi
Merino said:
I think you have miss-understood the point, read more carefully what I posted... You CAN log in and you CAN play. Sure you may not be able to go pwn in RvR but then that has never been explicitily included as a guarantee in the game has it? That was the point I was making, when people say they cant play the game still, it is infact not correct at all. Don't missunderstand me, I want you all to get back and fully equiped asap, I am just making the point when people talk about compensation it should be about getting their gear back not the time they couldnt play (other than the actual downtime itself).
The rest... The service that you pay is to connect to their servers and their software. I dont understand what you mean empty server? Surely all the zones, quests, mobs etc i.e. the core world and engine built by mythic, that is what we pay for. GOA could shutdown the servers at any time and the only thing they would owe us would be unused subs. sad but very true. There wouldnt be a single MMORPG operating if this wasnt the case.
Dear Ballard
I think basically we agree, with only a minor difference in opinion. Your point was well understood. Yes, one can play. But one cannot play the toon one wants to play, that’s my point.
Now to the argument “you pay for the right to connect”; as I wrote above I’m not sure that would really hold in court. I think we can argue that we pay to connect and play the toon we decide to roleplay, this is the essence of the contract we have with Goa as their customers. As mentioned I’m no expert of French consumer law and jurisdiction, but I know from several cases in my country that CoC’s or “general rules” from suppliers, which are also known as disclaimers, are sometimes discarded by judges as being one sided and against the spirit of law.
Of course even if a judge would deem the CoC to be too narrow focused and that Goa would in effect have to provide us with the possibility to play the toons we created, all we could ask for as compensation is getting our subscription payments back. Which we are getting in the form of free days, so no reason to sue anyone.
I’m however not asking for any compensation, I’m asking for a speedup in the restoration process as this in my opinion is taking way too long and being unfair to the players who got high ticket numbers. (Which in turn has an effect on the compensation issue, but let’s drop that for now).
Merino/Yeyi
I think basically we agree, with only a minor difference in opinion. Your point was well understood. Yes, one can play. But one cannot play the toon one wants to play, that’s my point.
Now to the argument “you pay for the right to connect”; as I wrote above I’m not sure that would really hold in court. I think we can argue that we pay to connect and play the toon we decide to roleplay, this is the essence of the contract we have with Goa as their customers. As mentioned I’m no expert of French consumer law and jurisdiction, but I know from several cases in my country that CoC’s or “general rules” from suppliers, which are also known as disclaimers, are sometimes discarded by judges as being one sided and against the spirit of law.
Of course even if a judge would deem the CoC to be too narrow focused and that Goa would in effect have to provide us with the possibility to play the toons we created, all we could ask for as compensation is getting our subscription payments back. Which we are getting in the form of free days, so no reason to sue anyone.
I’m however not asking for any compensation, I’m asking for a speedup in the restoration process as this in my opinion is taking way too long and being unfair to the players who got high ticket numbers. (Which in turn has an effect on the compensation issue, but let’s drop that for now).
Merino/Yeyi
If youi're going to quote RightNow replies, at least can you quote them correctly. I've just read Rightnow support request 090515-000006 and it is quite different to the version you posted.Melachi said:
I really don't like seeing my staff misrepresented by people with an agenda of their own.
Corran
Part of the furniture
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- 6,180
Requiel said:
Hey req,
Think most people expected a "edited" response from you guys to be posted here just from the guys attitude.
Keep up what you doing, hope you get a nice bonus and some time off for your effort to help restore things as should be.
Melachi
Fledgling Freddie
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- Dec 22, 2003
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- 1,001
Real Reply said:
I did edit it last time, too throw in an actual appology, because I landed myself in it earlier saying I was appologised too, and through sheer arogance after a re-read of the reply I saw they hadn't actually appologised, (which in my opinion is also arogance) since they even said "maybe a tad touchy".
Anyway, was I silly and stubborn to edit the reply? Yes.
Are GOA still brutal for Customer Support? Yes.
