[Football] How to improve the National Game

[soze]

You really do talk some shite.

What part i happen to think its true. neither of thos midfielders are worth near 20 million and the only reason that is the price tag is because they are English. Spuds must have pissed themseves when you offered that for Carrik

If its about droping Flamini for them its still a no Gilberto can't break back into our team and i rate him above both of them.

 

[Unleashed]

What part i happen to think its true. neither of thos midfielders are worth near 20 million and the only reason that is the price tag is because they are English. Spuds must have pissed themseves when you offered that for Carrik

If its about droping Flamini for them its still a no Gilberto can't break back into our team and i rate him above both of them.

Yeah the same Spuds were laughing when Carrick was part of out team that won the league lol weren't they
And another thing the price was 14m, 18 if we win titles and CL..

Hargreaves has been one of Englands best midfielders for a long time, and won numerous titles with Bayern..as he has been injured since he joined us how you can say he isn't worth what we paid, then you are talking shit.

As for Flamini you can have him LOL

Basically the facts are you are just worried that when this new rule comes in you are going to be fucked over, as pointed out Wenger can't handle English players..let's hope the same thing doesn't happen with Walcott like many others he has let go.

As for the players he has let go, Pennant and Upson have both been involved in England squads, Bentley in squad, Sidwell playing for Chelski

 

[soze]

Yeah the same Spuds were laughing when Carrick was part of out team that won the league lol weren't they
And another thing the price was 14m, 18 if we win titles and CL..

Hargreaves has been one of Englands best midfielders for a long time, and won numerous titles with Bayern..as he has been injured since he joined us how you can say he isn't worth what we paid, then you are talking shit.

As for Flamini you can have him LOL

Basically the facts are you are just worried that when this new rule comes in you are going to be fucked over, as pointed out Wenger can't handle English players..let's hope the same thing doesn't happen with Walcott like many others he has let go.

As for the players he has let go, Pennant and Upson have both been involved in England squads, Bentley in squad, Sidwell playing for Chelski

What is this shit about Wenger can't handle English players it is English players and the egos cant handel Wenger. Pennant though he would know Lujenberg out of a Arsenal team? Upson asked for a Transfer to get first team football. Sidwell asked for a transfer to get first team football. Bently asked for a transfer to get first team football. All of those players created by Arsenal but could not break into our team so left for first team football. How is that Wenger not being able to handel English players. Wenger made Ashley Cole and handeled him fine untill Chel$ki offered him 120k a week.

Pennant was the only one who Wenger kicked out. And wenger produces loads of English talent but they do not make it though to the first team because they were not good enough. So explain to me this he can't handel English players

And no i am not worried i have seen our youth and reserve team with plenty of english tealent and push comes to shove they will be Arsenal players. What wenger will not do is spend 14m for a 8mil player because he is English.

 

[tierk]

.....What wenger will not do is spend 14m for a 8mil player because he is English.

Respect to the man he is probably thye best manger in England for getting players on the cheap and turning them into super stars and earning buck$ when sold.

T Henry, E petit, M Overmaars, P Viera just some of his money makers. Some he made more on others not so much but everything the man touches turns to gold.

 

[Shagrat]

I'm sorry, but as an impartial fan, saying that Wenger cant handle English players really is a pile of tripe.

If I owned any club in the world and needed a manager he'd be top of the list. He's got an amazing scouting network, an eye for talent, and doesnt go for overpriced prima donna crap. And his team plays amazing football.

 

[tierk]

....... Its an english league....it should have english players. ........

Well dont see whats the big issue, as long as the football that is being played is entertaining who cares where they're from, they are wearing a certain teams colors and nationality shouldn't make a difference.

....... The only way to stop silly money being spent is to limit sky's subsidy to big clubs,........

That would be quite a big step back as now for the first time in a very long time we can now attract the best of the best to come and play in England.

....... and yes, invest in grass roots football or subsidy to the FA. Who could then use the cash to prevent the bankrupcy of lower league clubs.........

Personally think if a club is going to go bankrupt then so be it, why should anyone bail em out? It doesnt happen in any other business unless it makes business sense so why should football be any different?

I watch half of these teams in the lower leagues and always think to myself why do they bother? They play shitty football in empty stadiums, so whats the point of keeping these dying clubs going??

....... Personally i've always had an issue of majority foreign sides. I don't see how it can be called an English team, when half your squad is French/Italian..............

I am the exact opposite as i couldnt give a shit where the player comes from so long as he does a good job for his team and earns his pay.

.......as everyone has to abide by the same rules. And with less money to throw around from TV rights, we might actually have a game thats not living up in the clouds (and maybe have footballers who realise they aren't 'special' just lucky people who got to have a job doing what they love)...............

Remove the money and you will remove the ability to attract foriegn stars to England and these players regardless of what anyone can say bring a lot to the league in terms of skills as well as selling power in merchandising terms.

Football stars, whatever people think of their personal lives and behaviour, bring together people from all over the world and entertain the masses. They should, rightly so in my opinion, get payed fat cheques, all other entertainers at the top of their game do, movie stars, singers, so why not footballers?

 

[Overdriven]

The ONLY way it could be improved, would be if no English players played... Leave it to the professionals

 

[Aesgir]

No offence there Tierk, but yeah i see this sort of mentality as part of the problem. If its not English players playing in the English league....its not an English league. We had the influx of Italian players in the late 90's....the game tried to be more like Serie A. Well yeah....but i could watch Serie A games to see that style of football. In fact i used to, thanks to Channel 4 . I recognise many will disagree with this viewpoint, but hitting the terraces to find 4 englishmen out of 11 on the pitch, i just wonder what happened to cause people to lose pride in our own players.

Yes with the best of the best being attracted to english football, its great in the short term. But whats for the future? If English teams attract all foreign talent, and home grown talent suffers, then Football actually becomes unsustainable as a domestic industry. It effectively becomes all import, no export. Of course i recognise the Sky subsidies will never disappear, its too late for that, but thats what has impacted the modern game most (in my opinion).

I just can't agree on the 'let them go bankrupt' mentality. I hear a lot of fans of big clubs spout this. Do you really think that with the top league dominating finances...there should only be 20 english clubs? The Premier League is already financially so far ahead of the other leagues (again...thank you Sky) that clubs actually recieve payoffs just to stay solvent when relegated from it. Yeah they play to half empty stadiums, due to inflated ticket prices and the like. I can't agree with that either, but hey, they are a business and need to stay afloat. I'm not suggesting other clubs foot the bill, they are the competition, but should the Football Association bail out a lower league club from bankruptcy, regardless of the fact if you find them enjoyable to watch or not, then in my opinion, yes they should.

On the whole, i am actually in favour of foreign talent in the game, but the quota idea i don't see an issue with. You still have the import of talent, it just makes clubs support our own game too. If 50% of your starting lineup have to be British....that still leaves 8 non Brits on the field. Most clubs already have this in place, without need for legislation.
But without British players on the line up....you aren't supporting a local team, you're supporting a brand name. We pretty much do already.

I agree footballers should be paid a good wage, they have short careers, a rough schedule if in a big club, and provide entertainment. But realistically, 100k a week is a ridiculous sum of money to be paid for top players. 1/5th of that would still be considered a damn good wage by anyone. As a side note....i wonder how many movie stars you could name that have been paid millions for starring in a British film? I bet there isn't many.

 

[soze]

Some one said it right in here the best way to improve football is not by lowering the standards of the Premiership. It is by investing more in grass roots football.

Banning foreign players will bring down the standards and then we will need to start sending players abroad for them to become World Class.

 

[tierk]

No offence there Tierk, but yeah i see this sort of mentality as part of the problem. If its not English players playing in the English league....its not an English league.......

No offense taken, this is a open forum and discussion is expected. I understand your point of view but i cant agree with you. I know there are many people that have the very same view as yourself and this applies not just to the English league but pretty much all the major leagues, German, Italian or Spainish.

.....We had the influx of Italian players in the late 90's....the game tried to be more like Serie A. Well yeah....but i could watch Serie A games to see that style of football. In fact i used to, thanks to Channel 4 ........

I dont think the English style of football will ever be anything like the Italian league as different as chalk and cheese. English football has got to be one of the most exciting styles of football, as has been shown over the recent years by Arsenal and Man U (Liverpool fan myself). The influx of Italians i thought was a very good thing as it allowed to players to get famliar with players with a complete different culture, with regards to football, learn new things. Players like Zola, De Matteo, Vialli or the "white Feather" (Ravenelli) can only be considered good for the game. Di Cannio anyone?

.....I recognise many will disagree with this viewpoint, but hitting the terraces to find 4 englishmen out of 11 on the pitch, i just wonder what happened to cause people to lose pride in our own players.......

I dont think its a question of people losing pride in English players but rather that supporters of any club are generally interested in seeing their team win and they probably couldnt care where the players are from.

.....Yes with the best of the best being attracted to english football, its great in the short term. But whats for the future? If English teams attract all foreign talent, and home grown talent suffers, then Football actually becomes unsustainable as a domestic industry. It effectively becomes all import, no export. Of course i recognise the Sky subsidies will never disappear, its too late for that, but thats what has impacted the modern game most (in my opinion)........

I honestly think that you are totally wrong with regards to it being bad for the English game. Personally i think that the current crop of English players are far superior to anything that we have had in the past twenty years. This isnt because English players just woke up one day and got better but rather as a result of being familairised with a different way of playing football. I can remember the days of Arsenal under George Graham or Liverpool under Roy Evans or even Keegan with Newcastle and it has to be said that pretty much all the top teams were shit in comparsion to the top European teams

The influx of foreigners has given the Premiership a big edge over any team and nowadays when you watch any of the English teams play against the top sides on the continent its a fairly goo chance of rolling them over.

Technically, physically and mentally the players we see today, English players ofc, are better then anything we had in the past. Its just that people only want to see the headlines about the foriegn players and ignore the home grown talent that is coming through.

The only position that i think that England is lacking a world class player is a attacking left sided player, aside from this we have more then two or three players capabale of playing in any world cup team and doing well. Its just that people spend too much time slagging off players who are clearly talented.

Emile Hesky is a classic example of this, always been slated by the press called all kinds of names over the years because he didnt score 200 goals a game but people failed to see what he brings to the team. Quality player who only now people are beginning to appreciate. There are plenty of players like this. Gareth Barry another quality player but never been reconized until a few weeks ago. He has been doing it week in week out at Villa for years now.

.....I just can't agree on the 'let them go bankrupt' mentality. I hear a lot of fans of big clubs spout this. Do you really think that with the top league dominating finances...there should only be 20 english clubs? The Premier League is already financially so far ahead of the other leagues (again...thank you Sky) that clubs actually recieve payoffs just to stay solvent when relegated from it. Yeah they play to half empty stadiums, due to inflated ticket prices and the like. I can't agree with that either, but hey, they are a business and need to stay afloat. I'm not suggesting other clubs foot the bill, they are the competition, but should the Football Association bail out a lower league club from bankruptcy, regardless of the fact if you find them enjoyable to watch or not, then in my opinion, yes they should.......

I am a business man and i dont see what justification there can be for proping up clubs that cant get bums on seats. If you cant get people to come and watch games then why bother? Why should the FA or anyone else for that matter have to bail out clubs that have no or minimul fan base? That money could be better spent elsewhere in football. They dont play to half empty staduims cuz the price of tickets are over inflated its cuz they play shitty football. Classic example was Wimbledon Fc, the only games they had a full house was when teams like ManU or Arsenal or Liverpool played against them the rest of the season they couldnt even get together a crowd over 5,000 strong.

.....On the whole, i am actually in favour of foreign talent in the game, but the quota idea i don't see an issue with. .......

I am against quotas as a general rule cuz it opens the door to mediocraty. You are only in cuz you have to make the numbers up if you get what i mean.

.....But without British players on the line up....you aren't supporting a local team, you're supporting a brand name. We pretty much do already........

With the globalisation of football its no longer just about supporting local teams as you have people in China that support Liverpool and you have people in England supporting Barcelona. So you are right we pretty much do already.

.....I agree footballers should be paid a good wage, they have short careers, a rough schedule if in a big club, and provide entertainment. But realistically, 100k a week is a ridiculous sum of money to be paid for top players. 1/5th of that would still be considered a damn good wage by anyone. As a side note....i wonder how many movie stars you could name that have been paid millions for starring in a British film? I bet there isn't many.

The average footballer doesnt make 100k per week and i am not sure the exact figure but i am pretty sure the average wage of footballers in the UK is faaaaar lower then this. Top stars attract top slaries, again just the same as other forms of entertainment. Tom Hanks gets payed fat buck$$ every time he stars in a movie Hugh Grant gets payed fat money also but nowhere near the amount that Tom Hanks does, why? Cuz he isnt as big a star and the same applies to footballers.

Your comment about Bristh movies doesnt apply here to be honest as the Football industry is a far more lucrative business then British films are, with the exception of a couple of movies. Wages reflect this.

 

[Aesgir]

*Chuckles* i understand a lot of your viewpoints too, even if i don't agree with them, i can't fault the arguments themselves . Guess we should let someone else have a turn.

And yeah, i totally agree with the Heskey sentiment. He was made a scapegoat by a lot of impatient fans demanding more, spurred on by newspapers, something that does seem to happen a lot in English football....people are already taking bets on the new England manager.

 

[tierk]

....people are already taking bets on the new England manager.

He should have never been offered the job in the first place. Shittest option and naturally the FA went for it. Far better mangers out there then this guy and i am suprised he is still in the job. Certainly aint going to winning anything except a wooden spoon with this guy in charge.

 

[Heta]

they should ban english players from permier league

 

[Golly]

coming to the defense of hargreaves and carrick!

carrick, well he definitely helped us win the league, his passing is 2nd to none (can pass almost as well as seedorf given the oppertunity and hes consistent imo)

his fault is probably his work rate, it could be a lot higher, but hes a solid player with average to good attributes across the board and never has a howler, maybe 18m was a touch too much, but hes not a bad player by any stretch of the imagination, and the sum was more of a reflection on tottenham than english players in general, they said they wouldnt sell us berbatov unless we offered 40m+ which he just isnt worth :<

best example of overpriced english players in recent times would be curtis davies, arsenal had a 10m fee rejected for a player who isnt really proven at anything but U21

hargreaves, well he will come good whenever we play a team with an attacking midfielder who generally gets given a free role, the big teams like barca and madrid where messi/ronaldinho/robinho get given a license to do what they want and hargreaves can keep these players quiet- also note whenever hargreaves has played, united havnt conceded a goal thus far- granted hes only played 4 or 5 games but you cant say he hasnt done well thus far, and hes got a mean long range shot

totally agree with marc on the foreign for the sake of it comment, thats maybe where the problem lies, buying foreigners as fringe players where there should be english talent in the wings, waiting for the oppertunity, and when the oppertunity comes around, they have to take it, or they dont deserve the spot- thats giving them more than a sporting chance

o and agree with shagrat as well, wengers the best manager in the world imo- hes turned arsenal into a world class team with 2 generations of players now, making them alot of money in the process with little resources

if it wasnt for wenger arsenal wouldnt even have had the funds for a new stadium, can see arsenal getting stronger and stronger now as well- playing the most attractive football around with 60k seats to fill... their turnovers gonna go up alot this year, giving wenger even more money to play with, on top of the best young team in the world (atm) and isnt dein close to completeing his takeover thingy? seems he has the same knack as wenger within football for turning lead to gold

and im a man united fan :<