FG vs FG fights: Who isn't doing their job?

[Kreig]

It doesn't cause interrupt like damage spells, it simply stops you casting the spell you are casting, just like that. No difference in QC or normal cast. But amnesia doesn't cause any interrupts after the casting is stopped so you can atleast start casting new right away.

Not when bards abuse it, if u've ever played against a bard who abuses Amnesia, its near imposible to cast for long periods during the fight.

xxxx is interupting you, your spell fails.
xxxx is interupting you, your spell fails.
xxxx is interupting you, your spell fails.
xxxx is interupting you, your spell fails.
xxxx is interupting you, your spell fails.
xxxx is interupting you, your spell fails.
xxxx is interupting you, your spell fails.
xxxx is interupting you, your spell fails.

Even well after the spell you were trying to cast has finished failing, anoying and blatent bug abuse.

 

[Glacier]

Not when bards abuse it, if u've ever played against a bard who abuses Amnesia, its near imposible to cast for long periods during the fight.

xxxx is interupting you, your spell fails.
xxxx is interupting you, your spell fails.
xxxx is interupting you, your spell fails.
xxxx is interupting you, your spell fails.
xxxx is interupting you, your spell fails.
xxxx is interupting you, your spell fails.
xxxx is interupting you, your spell fails.
xxxx is interupting you, your spell fails.

Even well after the spell you were trying to cast has finished failing, anoying and blatent bug abuse.

They fixed the instant lull recast to 5 sec timer...

 

[GReaper]

If they are demezzed very quickly they have done their job, and your tanks haven't.

And have you failed to do your job? Read above.

The average Albion gank group consists of 3 mercs, 2 clerics, minstrel, paladin, sorcerer. If the hib group uses group purge, the mercs could possibly save me with prevent flight (tricky), the clerics can obviously heal and use bof, the minstrel can instastun and the paladin can slam or guard/engage.

If the tanks start defending me, they aren't attacking healers/druids. Paladin guarding against 4 others isn't that great.

Mid groups usually have 3 people who can single target root (shaman, 1 high pac healer, 1 lower pac healer), just one who can aoe root (shaman). Hib groups have 2 people who can single target root (druids), perhaps just one person to aoe root if the one druid specs it high enough.

Nobody else in the group can use root to save me in a typical Albion group.

So what your saying is that Amnesia interupts QC!?

I haven't really played casters much, so I wouldn't know

Try and play a main CC'ing class in RvR. You'll soon realise that its damn awkward even when you get a perfect mez off.


But seriously, even if everyone does their job correctly, the other side can still do better because they're more experienced. You can still lose because your realm abilities aren't ready, even if everyone does their job.

 

[liste]

yup. Sorcerers has 2 duties on the battlefield.

Mezz and die

more often than not, i prefer the cleric to rez me after i die (which i will) instead of wasting mana healing me.

the 1% of the time that i stay alive, is when i'm either very lucky, have MoC up and arent stunned by whichever, or my opponent is dumb/inexperienced.

 

[Marczje]

You forgot the third, supplying fast realmpoints

 

[Korax]

But seriously, even if everyone does their job correctly, the other side can still do better because they're more experienced. You can still lose because your realm abilities aren't ready, even if everyone does their job.

Ofcourse

 

[Belorfyn]

yup. Sorcerers has 2 duties on the battlefield.
more often than not, i prefer the cleric to rez me after i die (which i will) instead of wasting mana healing me.

Ooh, thanks for letting me know. Next time we meet your group 2v8 or so, we'll mez and nuke you fast and perhaps cleric forgets to heal if he's not used to do it

 

[Kreig]

They fixed the instant lull recast to 5 sec timer...

Havent played my Cleric in proper RvR for a while so have missed that fix but in the process of leveling a sorc so i should be on the receiving end of quite a few points raised in this thread

 

[Chilly]

Havent played my Cleric in proper RvR for a while so have missed that fix but in the process of leveling a sorc so i should be on the receiving end of quite a few points raised in this thread

its not worth it man.

sorcs are just a bloody nightmare to play in rvr, the only palce theyr generally better than their opponents is small group (1 or 2 ppl) rvr cos of the very high utility, they can do all sorts of shit given the time (time is what you ont have when u have 4 savages desperately trying to get a peice of your robe for their house). And a sorc with moc and a decent cast time can kill nearly anything that doesnt like to stun.

 

[Kreig]

its not worth it man.

sorcs are just a bloody nightmare to play in rvr, the only palce theyr generally better than their opponents is small group (1 or 2 ppl) rvr cos of the very high utility, they can do all sorts of shit given the time (time is what you ont have when u have 4 savages desperately trying to get a peice of your robe for their house). And a sorc with moc and a decent cast time can kill nearly anything that doesnt like to stun.

Im aiming for 50 before next patch, might not be so bad with the Savagery Line changes they may become less fotm, you never know we might even see some Zergs again

 

[Chilly]

Im aiming for 50 before next patch, might not be so bad with the Savagery Line changes they may become less fotm, you never know we might even see some Zergs again

even if savages get a nerf and get oh, say 30% less damage or 25% less quad hit chance or something, i dunno, they will still be fucking evil Vs a gimp avalonian wearing a bath robe with big flashing fuckign hit me now neon lights going off all over the shop.

People just dont know what to do half the time, iv only ever been to maybe 10-15 emain sessions and i hated every single one of them, apart from one when i was a replacement for FCs sorc whoever that was and i didnt die in like 0.5 msec cos i was being protected properly etc.. every other time iv just been left on my own, maybe with a guard if im lucky but the tank with guard fucks off and tries to kill some buffed up hero ffs - so much for him.

Anywya, point is unless your rr8 and have 0.00000000001sec cast time on all spells sorcs are bloody cannon fodder unless all you ever cast in 1 mez and instas.

 

[Korax]

Even with the tiny savagery nerf they are still so uberly overpowered.

To give ya'll a tiny overview of how DAMN overpowered they are:
You can compare a Savage WITHOUT the savagery line with a BM and a merc.
Here are the slight differences that I can think of:
-BMs got Evade 3 and Tripplewield witch give about +8dps dmg add once in a while.
-Mercs got evade 1 and dirty tricks
-Savages got evade 4(!!) hand to hand, witch afaik does more dmg

I'd say savages are slightly less powerful here because of the other two classes special abilety, but WAIT I almost forgot, haha, they have a savagry line... lets see what they get here:
+25% dps witch means they hit with 20.625 dps instead of 16.5. This is should be better then the BM's +50% dps dmg add witch isnt affected by styles, but is a 8dps dmg add (afaik). Also the +25% dps has no long recast time, so can be used in every single battle.

Owch that means that savages are the best class after all... wait... they get more in that line? Rangers dont get anything thats more useful then their dmg add in the pathfinding line... why should savages? Only the God almighty knows, cuz the guys at mythic got a serious bump in their head and forgot)

the list goes on:
Taunt shout to interupt mages
39% haste - 39% more dmg, wtfpwn (yup it stacks with healer haste, 2H savages with capped speed anyone?)
25% parry - woho 50 parry spec, WITHOUT SPECCING PARRY!
25% evade - 20% evade from evade4 + 25% evade = 45% ADVANCED EVADE?! WTF? (easily capped to 50% as long as you got over 2 dex (and tbh, im sure the buff +25% evade ignores the evade cap)) This class is made for assist trains.
+25% thrust, slash and crush resit - omg good thing they got AP 2,5 ANYTIME!
And it would be a shame if they ran out of end when they are fighting, so they got 60% end replanished whenever they wish.


All this at a cost of more or less 5% hp after the effect is gone and the enemy will be dead then anyway, so who cares.

Sorry, I just had to get it out, but its so (very very naugty words) stupid that mythic makes a class this stupid on purpose.

And ofc, dont forget they got Tank RA's and light tank HP.

 

[Kreig]

i dunno, they will still be fucking evil Vs a gimp avalonian wearing a bath robe with big flashing fuckign hit me now neon lights going off all over the shop.

Does any 1 make Avalonians anymore? Yes they are truely gimped and probley the worst character race choice posiable for Albion. Nowdays most casters are either Briton (for the Frair look) or Iconu.

Besides the art of playing a caster is placement and evasion, although this isnt always posiable due to fight conditions, but when ever im always looking for the next tree, rock or some place that i can hide behind. Avoiding direct action if i can, and if you watch any of the DAoC vids that are lurking about you can see that this is the only way alb casters can get on.

Where that isnt feasable due perhaps to open fighting conditions, have you ever noticed how savages + assist trains never go more than a few feat away from any fight? Ive noticed that a lot with savages maybe its because they are sh*te solo or dont want to lose there beloved Endurance Buff. Still not too far away as to nuke debuff or CC someone i think.

 

[Kreig]

Rangers dont get anything thats more useful then their dmg add in the pathfinding line... why should savages? Only the God almighty knows, cuz the guys at mythic got a serious bump in their head and forgot)

Dont forget Rangers get there self insta speed also, very handy for escape or pursuing enemys.

 

[Iceflower]

You should assign camera panning directions to your team as well before you move out from the pk. The more you have defined each team members tasks before you start the less is the risk you miss obvious things.

Casters should never stand still after a nuke. Redeploy and nuke again. If you stand on the same spot you increase the possibility that the enemy tanks spots you and you got the train on you. Furthermore, I noted I often swinged out from the train when meeting another group way too early to get a good point of view which made me a very easy identifiable cloth wearer for the enemy tanks. (You could almost see them smell the rps when they charged you ) It pays to stay in the herd for as long as possible during the charge.

The new items in ToA with casting speed enhancements will make the choice between quickcast or regular casting a moot point from what I have read sofar.

I think the comment about lack of teaching is worth keeping in mind. An expereinced player's ability to teach out something in a respectful manner is worth several realm ranks. The one that goes into verbal abuse mode just displays a lack of leadership talent.

 

[Korax]

You should assign camera panning directions to your team as well before you move out from the pk. The more you have defined each team members tasks before you start the less is the risk you miss obvious things.

Casters should never stand still after a nuke. Redeploy and nuke again. If you stand on the same spot you increase the possibility that the enemy tanks spots you and you got the train on you. Furthermore, I noted I often swinged out from the train when meeting another group way too early to get a good point of view which made me a very easy identifiable cloth wearer for the enemy tanks. (You could almost see them smell the rps when they charged you ) It pays to stay in the herd for as long as possible during the charge.

With my regro warden, I stand till in the middle of hte action, pretending to be mezzed, bringing buble to everyone and healing when needed. Good point moving abit after casting

I think the comment about lack of teaching is worth keeping in mind. An expereinced player's ability to teach out something in a respectful manner is worth several realm ranks. The one that goes into verbal abuse mode just displays a lack of leadership talent.

Think im gonna macro this thread and spam it in every group I get to...

 

[Shan]

Now these are only my opinions, and i can/will be wrong.

"When a balanced FG loses a fight. Who is to blame? Bacause someone, clearly isn't doing their job. I'm no excepional group player, but I do notice how many casual players fail to do their job."

Or enemy is higher RR/better players.

"As most of you know, the CC class in a group should always lead the group. This should also be someone who knows where to run, and how to run, and also where to not stop."

True

"A typical reason to why a group loses a fight is because they stopped in the middle of the road for some reason and gets ganked. Thats why its important to run a way you don't get enemies in from the side, but streight on. As you run in mach 5 you won't be taken from behind."

Mach6?

"Now that the leader of the group gets his enemies streight on, he has a fair chance of mezzing the opposing group. Keep in mind that your view range is 3000, and if you have instatnt mez you should be able to mezz at more or less exactly 1500 range. If you are a sorc (or don't have instant up) you have to be extra concentrated. The moment you see an enemy, /face him, hit QC (in case of instants, like lulls etc) and tap your mez. This HAS to be done very fast to succeed. Be sure to be uner 30 years old (for good reaction) to choose this class (haha, jk)"

Instas won't last for shit. It's better for Healer to ae amnesia enemy FG (Sorc QC Bolt mezz, although it is 2sec timer like all QC, is bitch tho) and then throw in normal AE Mez. Dunno about Bards

"I have been in groups where the CC'er mezzes the enemy before the rest of the group even see if they are allies or enemies (and for some before they even notice that they are there). And I have been in groups where the CC'er insist on not leading, and even getting attacked by tanks before they can mez."

CC'rs who do not want to lead are retarded.

"Now, one of the groups are almost bound to be mezzed, and then it's work that needs to be done, and fast. If you are a class that cannot cure mez, my tactic is to wait and see who gets hit, and then hit purge (witch should be a first priority RA for just about everyone). The ones who can cure mez, for heavens sake, do it! Remember to cure key classes first."

Agreed

"As a healer, you must make sure to be able to cast heal through the entire battle and keep every player in the group at full health. Usually the spread heal is the best to use. Make sure noone is diseased, if they are, cure them and wait for TOA (with group cure disease). "

afaik with SpreadHeal, disease only affects if YOU (the healer) are diseased. Ofc cure disease due the STR Debuff n Snare, it's a bitch.


"Mages should use the same manuver as healers when getting hit. If you have a stun, be sure to not use it on any determination class as your stun will last about 2 secounds. Slam isn't effected be determination. Also if it's a non det class, I would still recomend to not use stun if you can help it. It will only delay your death by 5-6 secounds (because of resists). Having a slam bot do your work, will stop him for 9 secounds, and then he suddenly have a new problem, he has a tank hitting him and he will probably stop chasing you as you are far away."

Stun + Assist Nuke works very well on any non-Det tank. Besides Castable Stun is on different immunity timer than Slam


"Offensive tanks should attack the healers\mages first. Make sure you have a determinstion class as MA that can pick the right classes as taget. And most importantly, REMEMBER to use the assist. A god tip to the MA is to make a macro that informs the group that he has changed his taget, and just spam it abit whenever its apropriate."

Mainly correct. For Mid group, dropping Shaman is also quite useful (drops End of assist train), although balanced Mid Group has 3 PR's and at least 50% rez

A few general tips:

"- When you see a mage with pbae that uses MOC... RUN, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD ! "

Or have a tank Slam him, or use castable stun. Pure shield tank can easily take a blast or two of PBAOE, unless it's 3PB Box, and even then he should be able to run through

"- When you see a healer use MOC, slam"

Correct

"- Tell the group of your current status. It's hard to see if you are rooted, mezzed or diseased. In TOA (afaik) this will be fixed with color codes on the names of people in the grp. Eg. orange for mezzed, green for diseased, blue for LD, red for dead etc."

Correct

"- When buffing up etc, make sure to find out who is MA and what specs people have. "

Mr. Obvious

"- When closing in on a milegate, tell the group to be ready (you have no idea how much this helps)."

Aaaand AE the doors, use your field of view to peek under the door to see if you see "legs" on the other side and so forth.

"- Give pointers to the group, but make sure you don't complain, insead encurrage them."

Everyone not mentally retarded should be able to take criticism


"- Try to have an overview of any situation. When running, twist your camera around and look in every direction. Don't look away from your front in more then one sek. Also, try to be concentrated about what to do, don't pet your dog."

About everyone in group should be panning the camera and yelling INC as soon as possible (Direction also helps alot eh ;p)

"- Use your RA's"

Yep, RA's are meant to be used. Altho wasting IP when you are only one alive is kinda useless, unless you know you can kill someone (rare) and are EXTRA RP HORNY

"PS. Savages, pbae, mezz, determination and disease is overpowered (though this isn't the subject of this thread). "

Agree on Deter and Savages.

 

[Korax]

Now these are only my opinions, and i can/will be wrong. "When a balanced FG loses a fight. Who is to blame? Bacause someone, clearly isn't doing their job. I'm no excepional group player, but I do notice how many casual players fail to do their job."
Or enemy is higher RR/better players.

If you lose, someone failed to do their job, wether the enemy is better or not

"A typical reason to why a group loses a fight is because they stopped in the middle of the road for some reason and gets ganked. Thats why its important to run a way you don't get enemies in from the side, but streight on. As you run in mach 5 you won't be taken from behind."
Mach6?

I don't think I ever used mach 6 more then 3 minutes, someone always forget to sprint after mg stops etc etc. I SHOULDN'T be hard, but hey whaddayaknow.

"Now that the leader of the group gets his enemies streight on, he has a fair chance of mezzing the opposing group. Keep in mind that your view range is 3000, and if you have instatnt mez you should be able to mezz at more or less exactly 1500 range. If you are a sorc (or don't have instant up) you have to be extra concentrated. The moment you see an enemy, /face him, hit QC (in case of instants, like lulls etc) and tap your mez. This HAS to be done very fast to succeed. Be sure to be uner 30 years old (for good reaction) to choose this class (haha, jk)"
Instas won't last for shit. It's better for Healer to ae amnesia enemy FG (Sorc QC Bolt mezz, although it is 2sec timer like all QC, is bitch tho) and then throw in normal AE Mez. Dunno about Bards

I disagree. You should have a very good chance at taking out the key classes before the rest is back on track. And there are always a few det classes that gets left behind.

"As a healer, you must make sure to be able to cast heal through the entire battle and keep every player in the group at full health. Usually the spread heal is the best to use. Make sure noone is diseased, if they are, cure them and wait for TOA (with group cure disease). "
afaik with SpreadHeal, disease only affects if YOU (the healer) are diseased. Ofc cure disease due the STR Debuff n Snare, it's a bitch.

Anyone who knows if this is a fact? Is it a bug or intentional?

"Mages should use the same manuver as healers when getting hit. If you have a stun, be sure to not use it on any determination class as your stun will last about 2 secounds. Slam isn't effected be determination. Also if it's a non det class, I would still recomend to not use stun if you can help it. It will only delay your death by 5-6 secounds (because of resists). Having a slam bot do your work, will stop him for 9 secounds, and then he suddenly have a new problem, he has a tank hitting him and he will probably stop chasing you as you are far away."
Stun + Assist Nuke works very well on any non-Det tank. Besides Castable Stun is on different immunity timer than Slam

You sure about that?

"- When buffing up etc, make sure to find out who is MA and what specs people have. "
Mr. Obvious

And still not everyone do it.

"PS. Savages, pbae, mezz, determination and disease is overpowered (though this isn't the subject of this thread). "
Agree on Deter and Savages.

Mezz is overpowered because everything relys on it, deter is overpowered because it fucks up all the classes that don't have it. If you (roughly) halved the time of the mezz and halved the effectivness of deter, it would be like 200 times more fair.
As for disease, its veeeeery hard to cure the intire grp for disease and heal them at the same time.
And pbae does to much dmg imo, I'd prefeer it lowered by 20%ish.

Btw. thanks for great answers and corrections

 

[Meduza]

Me, Elajt and Meduza once killed a full group of Mids. What Mid gets the blame?

u seem to forget they came back 3 times... and only the last time they managed to kill us...

but as Elajt said.... Was fun, aye

 

[Korax]

u seem to forget they came back 3 times... and only the last time they managed to kill us...

but as Elajt said.... Was fun, aye

Stlong

What classes vs what classes btw?

Me (korax) and Oddballl (shade and bard) took out 6 of a full group albs before enother FG hibs came and helped us, so tecnically we took out a FG. Why? All has low RR, 3 mages I think and no purge .

Went like this: They were spread out on amg odins, so a few AE mezzes and they were all stuck. One used purge, I PA'ed and killed him, and from there I PAed one by one mage, and went on like this.

 

[Fafnir]

When a balanced FG loses a fight. Who is to blame? Bacause someone, clearly isn't doing their job. I'm no excepional group player, but I do notice how many casual players fail to do their job.

Well as a dwarf thane i can say since i got no det or purge i usually go down fast in group vs group, think mainly because i'm a dwarf with hammer, resemble a healer, and thus target to take out. Guess thats why its so dam hard for me to get groups. But cant complain making 15k per day the last days i played solo in df/odin/emain.

 

[Iceflower]

>Think im gonna macro this thread and spam it in every group I get to...

The sad thing is that you would have to use it quite often

 

[Deepfat]

"When a balanced FG loses a fight. Who is to blame? Bacause someone, clearly isn't doing their job. I'm no excepional group player, but I do notice how many casual players fail to do their job."

Casual players may indeed fail to do their job and so do drunken decent players It's a game people make mistakes, have off days are afk or semi-afk watching TV etc. Can't blame them it's a game and therefore should be relaxing. Can't say I'd ever join a group with the fore-knowledge I'd be told off afterwards for making mistakes - that sounds a little too much like work to me. I play to get away from my manager not to join a group with 7 of the buggers in lol

My 'chanter dies in 3 hits from savages which means my tactical play can be somewhat limited from my traditional "grass chewing" role I seem to adopt these days. Having seen 'chanters in action from both sides of the fence I'd say that a 'chanter performs best when in a 3fg plus situation where you can PBAE enemies that are either engaging your own tanks and / or healers or mezzed/rooted targets etc. In a 1fg fight generally as a Luri with with a stick you're history. The 1500 hitpoints of damage in 3 seconds you get from 3 Savages steaming into you means that Purge, MoC, Instas from a Druid or even IP isn't going to help you. I'd love to play more tactically but the most tactical move I could make is prolly to re-roll which I have no intention of doing (silly me hehe)

 

[Fedaykin]

i play a sorc and have since day 1

i'm a tall avalonian.. try hiding in emain

but wouldnt change class for the world

 

[Danya]

afaik with SpreadHeal, disease only affects if YOU (the healer) are diseased. Ofc cure disease due the STR Debuff n Snare, it's a bitch.

Unless they just redsisease you immediately. Of course that doesn't always happen, the timer on mid's insta disease is 8 seconds after all!

Stun + Assist Nuke works very well on any non-Det tank. Besides Castable Stun is on different immunity timer than Slam

No it isn't. All stuns are the same immunity timer.

 

[Korax]

Unless they just redsisease you immediately. Of course that doesn't always happen, the timer on mid's insta disease is 8 seconds after all!


No it isn't. All stuns are the same immunity timer.

Thats what I thought.

 

[Laston]

Mezzers have you say!!!!

just wondering if two groups meat each other wouldn´t it be better if a tank lead and the mezzer behind, when you run into enemy people MUST unstick (ofc) and the person at the front run to the side away from his group so only him and perhaps one or two peeps gets mezzed (the tanks hopefully ) any mezzer mind telling me if you usually target the pers at the front?

 

[Derric]

We always have a merc leading,works good. o0

 

[Glacier]

sure tanks leading is not bad.. but every millisecond counts when its for a bard(sorc, healer) to get the mez off.. i myself prefer leading groups, gives me much more freedom and easier to target the enemy, and seeing them only that milisecond earlier makes it alot easier to land a mez.. how you other sorcs/healers/bards out there feel about this? ps: about me getting targetted first i dont care for.. cause "when" i have gotten my mez of, its up to the rest of the group to keep me alive,and keep "aggroes" off me.

 

[liste]

regarding leading as cloth caster:

If i have a good tank with me, who i _know_ will protect me, stay with me for just a few seconds for the slammer etc, i prefer to lead.

If the guywho would otherwise be leading is a numbty and cant find his way out of a paperbag, i prefer to lead.

If i'm grouped with someone sensible enough to do it properly, i'm quite happy to be off /stick a few inches behind the group. I wont be caught in the insta, and the group will usually have determination/purge or be hit by the onslaught of the enemy when they purge, leaving me in safety behind the lines.

Conclusion; Depends on the group