FAO Tedious Ten!!!

[Asha]

Flim what you said goes right back the other way too. The albs who don't like ac raids have no way to react either. There is nothing you can do if someone from your realm acts like a moron and does an AC raid. Multiply that feeling times all the nights that you watch the same people take keeps and towers in the wee hours. You can't do anything about it except quit.

Now imagine they dump and AC'ed relic in your keep... after so long of not being told to quit if you don't like it or stfu or whatever. You don't want the AC'ed relic. You certainly don't wanna spend your guilds BP for an AC'ed relic.

 

[Enli]

i wont carry on yabbering as ive been drinking (and its getting hard to focus) and i wont talk about what TT are doing (there playing how they want and i respect that) but at the end of the day remember this is just a game, stop acting childish and perhaps more maturely?

now lots of

correct, belgian beer with flame wars as lecture

 

[psyco]

if anything, its a good thing... less running around trying for JUST rps, and more siege, witch less us forget but that what makes this game unique

 

[Rigga Mortice]

Flim what you said goes right back the other way too. The albs who don't like ac raids have no way to react either. There is nothing you can do if someone from your realm acts like a moron and does an AC raid. Multiply that feeling times all the nights that you watch the same people take keeps and towers in the wee hours. You can't do anything about it except quit.

Now imagine they dump and AC'ed relic in your keep... after so long of not being told to quit if you don't like it or stfu or whatever. You don't want the AC'ed relic. You certainly don't wanna spend your guilds BP for an AC'ed relic.

I know what some people's reply to this is going to be, so I'll pre-empt them. Yes, if TT didn't want to spend BPs on the ACed relic, they could have just could have just released the keep.

And then the people that ACed the relic could claim the keep, and the status quo would have remained with no need for input from the 95%+ of the realm. And the whole lot would have been swept under the carpet, aside from slightly different yet equally epic thread on FH.

Nothing that those that disagreed with it can do or say. The only stance these people can take is dormancy. Inaction. Hardly a particularly positive stance; nobody ever changed things by ignoring them.

Its as demoralising to play in a realm like that as I'm sure it is to play against one.

I stood by and watched a similar thing happen to Glastonbury, now current population at peak times: less than 50 , citing "nothing I can do about it, not my problem" at the time. Pardon me for my part in trying something, even if considered ill-concieved by some, this time.

 

[Golena]

If someone sabotages your frontier so that you can't defend it you're SOL.

I'll do exactly the same to you as you did to me here m8.

What you want to do is go into the game as it stands currently and notice that even with the keep set to level 1 the hibs still didn't take the relic back, in fact they actually lost another.

There's a difference between making it so albs can't defend the frontier and giving the enemy a 2% chance of taking it. In a level 10 keep with the number of albs about at the moment hib wouldn't of stood even the slightest chance of taking the relic. You claim that relic movement spices up RvR, it only does that if the side that lost it shows any interest in taking it back.

Go look at the hib board where someone tried to drum up enthusiasm for recapturing the relic.. despite the fact that the keep was set to a low level, 90% of the repiles were simply "why bother".

If the sides were equal and the hibs could of attacked a level 10 keep then yes TT would of been sabotaging the realm and all your complaints would of been valid. In a level 10 keep you might as well just of dumped the relic in humberton keep and of been done with it!

It's like playing someone at table tennis that your far better in skill to. If you simply return the ball sensibly so they have a chance at hitting it back both sides can have a fun game although you'll almost certainly end up the winner. If you simply smash the ball back at breakneck speed so they never actually get to touch it then yeah you might of played more in the spirit of the game (trying to win the point) but your only likely to have the one game and neither side is going to enjoy it much. There's a point at which roleplaying the for arthur approach has to be balanced with the making the game enjoyable for both sides approach and at the moment the second point seems to be passing the majority of the complainers by.

It's sort of the same as ganking a soloer with your full group at 4am in the morning.. yeah it's fun for the full group the first 4 times and definately in the spirit of the realm war MMPORG game, but it's got a fairly limited lifespan until the soloer gets bored and logs for the evening. Maybe the truth is that the server is dead and trying to get a bit more life out of it is simply impossible at this point so trying is stupid, and what TT are doing is stopping albs "winning" before they turn off the lights, which is what everyone is so upset about.

 

[thergador]

before they turn off the lights, which is what everyone is so upset about.

couldn't agree more tempers are high every 1 is looking for the big baddy thats making the game die, when in fact its like all things they come to an end, and yes AC is not good for enemy moral, but mids have been hitting alb towers at 4 am nearly every morning and then albs take them back so it proves that the game is 24/7 but taking relics should be made harder at night maybe up the defences of the npcs ect, meaaning the late night player can still try but its be a lot harder. one thing to remember alot of peeps are going to more to warhammer when it comes out and the same sort of thing's will happen there. its not going to kill the game its gunna make the enemies pissssed off and hopefully they will come and fight.

but i think due to low numbers (in game not just hib) moral is down and most of the big rvr names from all 3 realms have left/gone quite, so there very little fight in the 3 realms.

tbh i love rvr and it sucks that the games dieing but even if we got 100 new players per realm it still would as the moral is at rock bottom. the only way to change that is for a few peeps from each realm to get there realms in to the mood to fight agian, and may-be drop the hole TT thing (noy saying i agree or dis agree with them can see both sides of the argument). but sooner or later the cluster is going to be like classic where it might as well be a pve server, that may suit some poeple but not all.

so wheres the 3 men/women 1 for each realm that are needed by there fellow realm mates, to rally them ready for what may-be the final big battle

ps come on if you think your hard enough

Spoiler

joke btw thought it might get the hibs/mids fighting

 

[Matt]

It's like playing someone at table tennis that your far better in skill to. If you simply return the ball sensibly so they have a chance at hitting it back both sides can have a fun game although you'll almost certainly end up the winner. If you simply smash the ball back at breakneck speed so they never actually get to touch it then yeah you might of played more in the spirit of the game (trying to win the point) but your only likely to have the one game and neither side is going to enjoy it much. There's a point at which roleplaying the for arthur approach has to be balanced with the making the game enjoyable for both sides approach and at the moment the second point seems to be passing the majority of the complainers by.

It's sort of the same as ganking a soloer with your full group at 4am in the morning.. yeah it's fun for the full group the first 4 times and definately in the spirit of the realm war MMPORG game, but it's got a fairly limited lifespan until the soloer gets bored and logs for the evening. Maybe the truth is that the server is dead and trying to get a bit more life out of it is simply impossible at this point so trying is stupid, and what TT are doing is stopping albs "winning" before they turn off the lights, which is what everyone is so upset about.

Good post in it's entirety, i do think that's indeed what is ppl passing by. (Is that even a normal english sentence?)

 

[Tuthmes]

At least when someone ninjas your relics you can go out and do something about it. If someone sabotages your frontier so that you can't defend it you're SOL.

What's there todo about it? You mean trying to take it back, so it can be AC'd the next day/week?

 

[Tuthmes]

Now I can see why people would get demoralised and annoyed by constant mid-night raids... you struggle to take the relic back and boom next morning it's in an alb keep. But that's not what people are saying. And even if they were - what TT is doing is the wrong way to go about fixing it.

It's EXACTLY what people are trying to say:
Hib's cant do anything about the AC'ing, albs can.
Albs cant do anything about the lvl 1 keep, TT can.

And yeah i stated AC'ing, but its more then that. The only realm running with rr11 gank groups l8 night is albion (hi CM!). And trying to play vs that with 3 other hibs, isnt exactly fun, nor doable. Those people don't rely on you cause they logged after beeing zerged down for the 20th time, with a /laugh and a /rude to go with it.

Just keep the 10% bs and the 8vs8 arguments out of here btw, its not what people are on about.

Trying to think of an example that pertains to 8v8 - what if the actions of a guild in your realm made druid armour worse. So that your druid was harder to keep alive. Free malice debuff on all druids Nothing you could do would remove that. And this is someone supposedly on the same side.... Crap example but hopefully you get the point.

It's not only a crap example, it doesnt hit any nails at all. Whats the loss of having a keep set to lvl1, in witch you have a 10% bonus item anyway?

P.s. yeah i just said 10% bs, but couldnt leave it out of the argument for flim's sake :|

 

[Golena]

Now it might be that a 10% difference in damage makes the hibernian 8v8ers all want to quit but that seems a bit petty to me - surely you can cope with that, adapt to it somehow? Relics have fluctuated loads over the years, heck albion had 0 relics for an entire year once, yet we still have people in Albion...

10% damage isn't a huge deal - it's significant but are you really sure that's what's driving people away?

I'm fairly sure that it's not 10% damage that's the reason they are quitting. The current relic situation isn't about 10% and very few people who think what TT did was right haven't even mentioned it.. the 10% is all coming from the people on the other side.
It's what the current relic situation represents and that's the number of Albs no longer wanting a competative game.. Yes Alb had no relics for ages in OF but the big difference then was Alb had the numbers and the chance to get it back. Glastonbury was and is a great example of that happens when a realm dominates a DAoC server. If you arn't familiar with what happened over there and didn't witness it for yourself then it's going to be much harder to understand what the problem is.
Look at the amount of complaining and bitterness amongst the Albs in game at the moment about not being able to defend the relic, and how people are apparently not wanting to play in Albion anymore because of it. Now think about how that's really any different from what the hibs have been suffering the past few months. The reason for it is different, but the result is identical.

If Albs are quitting the game based on the actions of TT how is that different at the end of the day from the hibs quitting based on the actions of the AC'ers. It all comes down to the fact that it's no fun to be playing a game where everyone around you is demoralised and has given up. It doesn't matter if your in a l33t gank squad or not, as they have all pointed out many times, 8v8 is not the only thing in the game they do, and because they run in agramon 2 nights a week doesn't mean they don't enjoy joining the rest of the realm the other 5.

It's quite easy to say they should of done nothing but the cluster at the moment is in almost exactly the same state as classic was a month before the server died. Those who were on classic can see it and tried to do something to stop the exact same thing happening.. Those who wern't there are about to learn the hard way what happens when theres simply nothing left to fight.

Trying to think of an example that pertains to 8v8 - what if the actions of a guild in your realm made druid armour worse. So that your druid was harder to keep alive. Free malice debuff on all druids Nothing you could do would remove that. And this is someone supposedly on the same side.... Crap example but hopefully you get the point.

Lets take another example. Warlocks can insta kill the first target they see on inc making the game very frustrating for everyone on the other side, so their damage gets nerfed to make the game more fun. This happened as a direct result of Albs and Hibs whining about how it wasn't fun to play against warlocks and you were one of these people.
A small group of people (mythic) essentially made the same descision for Midgard as TT are making for Alb, to make it harder for the warlock players in order to provide some balance and you lept up and down and cheered when it happened because you could actually have some fun again. Now when it's you dominating and the hibs with no chance trying to provide some balance so both sides can have some fun it's ruining the game and no fun any more.

And even if they were - what TT is doing is the wrong way to go about fixing it.

What's the right way to fix it. Wait till the server actually croaks then post "I told you so". Reasoning with the people hasn't worked, we've just had the immortal "I pay my subs meights" line thrown back at us time after time. The proof is still in the fact hibs didn't take the relic back.. Even with the hinderance from TT Albs still won, so claiming they are stopping the albs defending is wrong. I would of thought you would actually be the first person to stand up and admit that it's not the winning that's important it's having some fun while doing it. Making it at least slightly challenging for yourself is much more fun than just insta winning.. People kept saying where's the fun in playing a warlock, you press 2 buttons and you win, yay didn't you get bored of it? I'm going to ask the Albs the same thing.. isn't defending a level 10 keep with 50 of you against 3 hibs slightly dull?

 

[Flimgoblin]

A small group of people (mythic) essentially made the same descision for Midgard as TT are making for Alb,

Slight difference -this is Mythic's game. It's not TT's game any more than anyone else who plays.

What's the right way to fix it.

No idea, if I knew that I'd have posted long ago
Maybe rerolling some hibs and ACing the relics back a few times might help. Try and get the "why bother" feeling on the AC relic raiders...
Even just rerolling in hib if they're suffering that much - they'll appreciate the numbers I'm sure.

But I know that setting a keep to level 1 won't stop someone AC raiding. So you've pissed off a whole load of people for no reason. Once the hib relic is taken back I'm sure the same people who took it in the first place will put it in another keep - one claimed by them.

All that will have been achieved is to piss people off and fracture the realm even more.

I can see the reasons behind what TT are doing but I think it's an incredibly arrogant thing to do and ultimately will do more harm than good.

 

[Gahn]

my thoughts?

Relic raids usually increase the amount of RvR... constant AC raids will wear down the enemy morale of course, which makes them a bad thing... but overall any sort of relic movement spices up the game a bit.

Having people sabotage their own realm - however well meaning - erodes what little is left of the RvR game. Dragging it ever more towards "me, my group, the people I kill for RPs and the people that steal my RPs".

It's a lonely place to go and it will make people leave at least as much as the relic stealing will do. At least when someone ninjas your relics you can go out and do something about it. If someone sabotages your frontier so that you can't defend it you're SOL.

Albs can't defend a level 1 keep with 50% of pop on server at any time being? Cmon Flim, u should know better.
And as happens often u are taking a stance without trying to watch the bigger picture imo.

 

[Gahn]

joining in the discussion is good - trolling is not. One liner's are fun now and again but there was some good chat going on there, posting "yakyakyak" and then an insult doesn't help.

On the other points - I've never aspired to be in an 8v8 guild in the nearly 5 years I've been playing... and I know quite a few people who are the same. I have friends who tried it and thought "this is crap" and I know some who tried it and loved it.

Part of what keeps an awful lot of people playing is the fact they belong to a realm. It's a reason to play other than improving the stats on your character... brings context to it, continuity. It's a long way from RL stuff but morale in-game has similar roots - if you care about who you're fighting with or what you're fighting for you'll play on through a nasty defeat. Part of the reason you go back out into the frontier the third time you get wiped by the gank group pbaoe rr11 chanter is because other people are relying on you.

Now it might be that a 10% difference in damage makes the hibernian 8v8ers all want to quit but that seems a bit petty to me - surely you can cope with that, adapt to it somehow? Relics have fluctuated loads over the years, heck albion had 0 relics for an entire year once, yet we still have people in Albion...

10% damage isn't a huge deal - it's significant but are you really sure that's what's driving people away?

How much more do you think having people in your own realm stop you from defending drives you away?

Trying to think of an example that pertains to 8v8 - what if the actions of a guild in your realm made druid armour worse. So that your druid was harder to keep alive. Free malice debuff on all druids Nothing you could do would remove that. And this is someone supposedly on the same side.... Crap example but hopefully you get the point.

Now I can see why people would get demoralised and annoyed by constant mid-night raids... you struggle to take the relic back and boom next morning it's in an alb keep. But that's not what people are saying. And even if they were - what TT is doing is the wrong way to go about fixing it.

Guess u didn't read the real motivations of peeps rerolling and still thinking "omg they quit cause they can't stand Albs with 10% power" (AND strenght btw), tis is not the case.
U can go and troll the forums a bit and see that when Mastade made MRE's to try and take relic back prime time we were all happy and such (involving Realms) etc, problem is u can't really take a level 10 Keep defend by the WHOLE fucking lot of Albion ain't u? And even if u retake it (after weeks of siege) what the point is? To see the same relic gone the very next morning or 2 weeks l8er for all that it means?
Also i find your example a bit flawed there, is not that TT lowering keep to level 1 put Albion Realm at the danger of nothing, only a wider chance of Hibs to get back what's been stolen (and don't start with the 24/7 game pls cause u know better).

 

[Gahn]

Flim for presidant!!!:worthy:

although im not sure about his example (and thats maybe cos ive been drinking, and i cant actually understand much atm)

but thing i dont get, why are hibs/mids quiting/re-rolling onto another realm? All albs know that you can easily do a MRE (look at how succesfull mustades raids are) and totally screw alb over. I know you think its points as the Early morning players will just take it back, but think of these 2 reason's

* At least you have the satisfaction that you can do a prime time raid sucessfully and gain rp's

* Think of the albs that dont do early morning play, that might actually enjoy doing siege defence warfare, as all i see is 99% albs being generalized as the so called "AC raiders" which is far from the truth.

i wont carry on yabbering as ive been drinking (and its getting hard to focus) and i wont talk about what TT are doing (there playing how they want and i respect that) but at the end of the day remember this is just a game, stop acting childish and perhaps more maturely?

now lots of

I still fail to realize how peeps can be so blind -.-
All of Mastade's MREs (being the 1st even funny i concede that) finished in a big, great, absoulte nothing! Y? well it's simple, all Albion packed in the keep where Hib power Relic was kept and letting us open both of your Relic Gates.
And the strategy "worked" u know y?
Easy because "Anyway the AC crew will get em back tomorrow morning, who cares? let's defend the stolen one".
Tis is much for the roleplaying peeps -.-

 

[Tuthmes]

Maybe rerolling some hibs and ACing the relics back a few times might help. Try and get the "why bother" feeling on the AC relic raiders...
Even just rerolling in hib if they're suffering that much - they'll appreciate the numbers I'm sure.

But I know that setting a keep to level 1 won't stop someone AC raiding. So you've pissed off a whole load of people for no reason. Once the hib relic is taken back I'm sure the same people who took it in the first place will put it in another keep - one claimed by them.

All that will have been achieved is to piss people off and fracture the realm even more.

I can see the reasons behind what TT are doing but I think it's an incredibly arrogant thing to do and ultimately will do more harm than good.

Heh reroll, while you just said it realm thing earlier in your earlier post. Anyways how many people do you think have the time to play at AC hours? Then not the mention the fact that you'll still be up against a lot of albs. Setting a keep the keep to lvl 1 to stop people AC'ing has never bin the point of it. Its showing albs that some people can do something which is pissing of other people. It's a responce to the AC'ing.
The part about pissing people off and doin more harm then good, has bin done by the AC'rs, not setting a keep to lvl1. But every time, you ignore this.

To put it simple. Tell people to stop beeing morons in the morning and people might enjoy the game again.

 

[Flimgoblin]

To put it simple. Tell people to stop beeing morons in the morning and people might enjoy the game again.

I doubt they'd listen to me

The part about pissing people off and doin more harm then good, has bin done by the AC'rs, not setting a keep to lvl1. But every time, you ignore this.

Two wrongs don't make a right and all that.

A (once again crap) analogy: My neighbour's cat kept shitting on my lawn so I started playing really really loud music 24 hours a day.

 

[Thadius]

A (once again crap) analogy: My neighbour's cat kept shitting on my lawn so I started playing really really loud music 24 hours a day.

My neighbours cat kept shitting on my lawn. One day i snuck up behind it and dumped a bucket of ice cold water on the little bugger!

 

[Tuthmes]

My neighbours cat kept shitting on my lawn. One day i snuck up behind it and dumped a bucket of ice cold water on the little bugger!

Rat poison in the a jummy bit of cheese imo!

 

[Golena]

Slight difference -this is Mythic's game.

Ok so it's mythics game.. Mythic put in the ruleset that a guild could take a keep and lower it to level 1 while it had a relic in it. GOA have enforced that it's not against the code of conduct to do so.
I therefore fail to understand by your argument why TT have done anything you should disagree with. They are playing Mythics game within the bounds of Mythics rules. To argue differently would be to argue that who makes the descision is irrelevant and it's the descision and concequences that's the important factor, which means that slight difference has no bearing at all. The question becomes is weakening something from one realm to create a more balanced game for both sides benefitial to everyone playing, no matter who does it. The Albs believe that holding the relic by any means necessary is more important than a balanced fight, TT believe a balanced fairer fight is more important than the risk of losing the relic.

It's not TT's game any more than anyone else who plays.

And by the same token it's not anyone else's game more than it's TT's.
The entire argument is being made by people who are upset because TT are enforcing a descision that effects the entire realm. What your wanting to do is enforce your beliefs on TT.
How many people flaming in these threads like Kagato and his fancy changing of TT's name actually care about what TT think of the situation. Yet at the same time your expecting TT to give a crap about what you think. If you don't care about their feelings, why should they give even the slightest considerations to yours.

You think it was wrong, they think it was right. The difference is that this time it was their descission to make. Everytime an Alb goes out solo in rogs and gets farmed by a full group they are actually making the enemy stronger by provinding them with RA's and weakening Albions position, but it's fairly easy to argue that if the Alb enjoys doing that then he shouldn't stop for that reason. TT's example is much more blurred and which side of the line it falls under is difficult to say, but it's certainly not for the blinkered people shouting insults in these threads to make the decission.

If we want to go back to your original argument it's Mythics game and as such they made the decission when they created the game mechanics and the CoC's that came with them. They say it's fine so there's nothing wrong with TT potentially making the enemy realms stronger in order to try and get their enjoyment from the game in the same way the rogged up alb should feel free to keep going and feeding RP's to the enemy in order to find his.

 

[stellaartois]

Plz stop whining on TT about this
personaly i don't agree with them but as long as they play within the rules off the game nobody can flame them
And i can't say this enough its all the whining on other peeps that gets this game down nothing else

 

[Konstantin]

I

As for the mids and hibs leaving? like I give a damn, a few less people to zerg me, boo hoo. .

usaly its you thats zerging.....

 

[Britin]

Prydwen ~ Excaliber Server RIP

Congratulations to all those people who have brought the demise of the cluster forward 6 months .... and i don't mean TT

 

[Xrystofer]

Kagato+Uspe you guys really crack me up

1st of all making TT solo is hilarious as they are probably the Only borderline decent alb rvr guild left on this cluster atm

As for Raven checking out Hib section Uspe ... how about you go take a look and check out all the recent quit threads ... you are flogging a dead donkey atm the fact you and your realm-mates wont stop until you are pounding a pink pulp into the ground is quiet sad ...

As for Kagato ... once again you twist everything that is said to suit you ... i think the lower deapths of hell should be reserved for vain bastards like you tbh ... was laughing my ass off in Insergence /gu the last night when a m8 who i was grouped with ... along with you /shudder told me you said on vent that... if we see that Deception gimp fighting gank her to bits ... kinda sums up your attitude tbh ...

Have fun fighting amoungst the scraps tbh ... There is now NO fg versus fg scene on this cluster and even solo action is dead

after what kagato said i couldnt agree more with u