FAO armsmans!

[gunner440]

Originally posted by Asha
I know f all tbh

howwwwwwwwwww true

 

[Asha]

except all the secrets I know about you ofc...

 

[chosen]

Originally posted by Belomar
Chosen, all realms are different. Heroes get moose form, but they still have to spec in two different spec lines to get access to 1H and 2H weapons. Warriors don't get moose form and truly lack profile, but they do get to spec in one damage line and can then use both 1H and 2H weapons. Heroes either spec in Celtic Spear (for 2H thrust) or Large Weapon (for 2H slash or crush) if they don't opt for a 50 shield/50 weapon guardbot spec. Also, don't forget that warriors were given +15% base damage some patches ago, and have the highest weaponskill in the game.

So overall I would say that heroes and warriors are pretty much evenly matched, whereas armsmen are the weakest of the main tanks.

hmm, kk i was wrong about the heroes then! my mistake, sorry. was just so sure a friend told me a hero just had to spec one line and could wield all kinda weapons

 

[chosen]

oh btw u got all strenght relics now so u got +20% to melee so a armsman with 20% and plate > warrior with 15% and 1 dmg type specline for both 1 and 2h

 

[Kagato.]

Originally posted by Danamyr
Hmmm...just trying to add something constructive to this thread, I wonder if someone can explain this to me.

The 'pure' tanks of the three Realms are the Warrior, Hero and Armsman. Why is it that the Hero get's to Moose, and the Warrior and Armsman get bugger all?

I'm kind of sick of getting the stock reply 'Because Armsmen get plate'. That's a bullsh*t answer. Plate makes hardly any difference IMHO (happy to be corrected if I'm wrong).

I think that either Moose should be taken off the Hero and given to the Champ (instant new FOTM), or Armsmen and Warriors should be given something else.

I am ignoring the Armsmen's ability to use crossbows for the purpose of this debate (because I personally consider it to be little more than a PvE pulling tool)!

Opinions?

I don't see any reason to take Moose from Heros, personally I don't rate them much anyway, though I guess when we get the 'bodyguard' thing they will be a new fotm.

But getting back on topic what exactly could you give Armsmen or Warriors and still keep them in line of what they should be ? Warriors as boring as they may be are still probably better in general then Heros or Armsmen simple due to them being free to act defensive or offensive without penalty, whereas Armsmen have to choose one or the other. Add to that the better weaponskill and hit points and plate armour becomes worthless (specially when most enemies who can spec crush specifically to deal with albion anyway).

So really Warriors are ok as they are even if dull. But Armsmen ? dull and underperform (or so is the common belief).
But to be honest, suggestions of shouts, morphs or anything along them lines is just quite simply wrong, Armsmen by definition sacrifice all learnings of magic to concentrate on improving there melee ability, the pure definition of a tank. Any and all improvements to the class should only be within these boundries nothing magical just a pure improvement to there melee capabilities, pretty much how warriors are is how Armsmen should be.
If Mythic got it right for a change that is.

but I know f all tbh

No comment

oh btw u got all strenght relics now so u got +20% to melee so a armsman with 20% and plate > warrior with 15% and 1 dmg type specline for both 1 and 2h

But relics are always subject to change.

 

[Asha]

maybe make det cheapest for arms/warrior/hero
then more expensive for bm/zerker/merc
and v expensive (and limited ) for savages

fixes everything!! (well maybe not.. )

 

[chosen]

Originally posted by Asha
maybe make det cheapest for arms/warrior/hero
then more expensive for bm/zerker/merc
and v expensive (and limited ) for savages

fixes everything!! (well maybe not.. )

hehe, keep those nasty savages from this thread please, just once i know they are overpowered.
and to Kagato but armsman got a more heavy dmg dealing wpn line aswell ThrustPolearms is kinda nasty to meet solo
been soloing some with my warrior and some with my skald, and ThrustPolearmsmen are the class i can't get down whatever RR they are(if both unbuffed or buffed that is)

 

[Kagato.]

Originally posted by chosen
hehe, keep those nasty savages from this thread please, just once i know they are overpowered.
and to Kagato but armsman got a more heavy dmg dealing wpn line aswell ThrustPolearms is kinda nasty to meet solo
been soloing some with my warrior and some with my skald, and ThrustPolearmsmen are the class i can't get down whatever RR they are(if both unbuffed or buffed that is)

Don't worry polearms are nerfed soon anyway then you wont have any problems with us so long as you have enough sense not to turn your back to us.

 

[Ialkarn]

Warriors>>>>>>>>heroes>armsmen

why? several reasons:

Specific features of the classes:they were named already thousand of times and I wont go back on it,I want instead talk about something wasn't debated enought,it's something about warrior/hero/armsman specific role in a group.

It's well know light tanks like Savages (and prenerfed Beserker)
Blademasters and Mercenaries are better in offense than heavy tanks (better damage output,dual wield advantages:less troubles crossing pbt,guard and evade,haste effect whit slow right hand and fast left hand),but in Hibernia and Midgard heroes and Warrior can have the role of guardbot,in albion a tank speccing s/s would be redundant in a group since palis are build already to do that ( no 2h palis dosent work well,they have lower damage output than armsmen and a no determination),and one more shield tank x group risk to gimp his damage output,so the only possible role for an armsman in albion is in offence,a role fitting better whit another class (mercenary).
The nefarius plate advantage is only apparent,in properly fights tanks are the last things to be hitted.
so plate or studded wont make a big difference:you die aniway if your supports are dead (you dont get heals) you survive if you supports are still up and able to cast.
That's make armsmen cursed.

I could add infinite dettails:

We don't get haste really :in Albion haste/damage add is related whit theurgs,not exactly group friendly,while in midgard and hibernia is related whit healer classes (even double:conc buff+celerity).
the best damage type of the realm dosen't fit whit the class:thrust 1h is dex/str based while armsman primary stat is strenght,also the best thrust styles is evade based.

Crush 1h is redundant whit shield (same damage type,based on stun styles).
You have only one option really if you decide to be shield specced :slash..worse damage table for an alb and the irony want spec it hight dosent give many advantages in terms of styles (diamond slash isn't so uber,backslash is the last style effective in in RvR).

mmm I went off topic here

Edited:the request many ppl does,about remove the double spec line wouldn't really solve the problem,since we don't have a valid line where spend those points;that would make them like offensive heroes:atm Spear/2h heroes having an hard life in hibernia cause BM outdamage them.
they are also crap guard bots (the chance to land a slam is related whit your 1h spec).
I think 2h/pole should keep the double spec but have a consistent damage increase . (ppl is always surprised about the high caps of armsmen but they ignore it's often related whit a +0 quickness template,very effective on a couple of swings terribly gimped on a longer fight.),or they should give better effects to those styles,things little by little it are happening,atlast for polearm:we got our snare styles fixed (short duration anytime,probably the only valid reason to have an armsman in group atm),and we getting a long time stun on our backstab combo.

 

[bracken_woodman]

Make the damage-type spec have a much greater impact on variance - that would be a good start.

 

[Kagato.]

I don't mind the double-spec actually I just wish it did what it was supposed to do and decrease damage variance, at 50 pole 50 thrust there should be little to no variance in damage, otherwise whats the point in it?

 

[bracken_woodman]

Originally posted by Kagato.
I don't mind the double-spec actually I just wish it did what it was supposed to do and decrease damage variance, at 50 pole 50 thrust there should be little to no variance in damage, otherwise whats the point in it?

Exactly - and what's more annoying is that its been demonstrated before that warriors have lower variance (and possibly heroes too) without having to double spec.

 

[Kagato.]

So much for 'advanced weapons'.

 

[iluvatur]

just go 50 pole, 33crush/slash/thrust

with spellcraft and decent rr they all be near 50 ( shows theres still variance with 50 spec anyways)

choosing the right weapon for your opponent each time will make your weapon more effective and your role more fun! 0_o

 

[Danamyr]

Personally I feel that the use of Pole is far too endurance heavy. I had a Lvl 30 Arms (pre /lvl) that was specced 2 H Slash. Great group character, but absolutely tonk solo because he had no defence whatsoever.

When the next patch came in that gave everyone the free single line /respec I changed him from 2 H Slash to Slash Pole.

The damage wasn't jaw dropping over the 2 H Slash styles, but the end bar was empty after 3 styled swings - err...that sucks!

If the purists are going to maintain that Armsmen should not get any magical abilities (and I am not saying I disagree with the idea of purisim), then perhaps if they lowered the end cost of pole styles by 50% or so, then that would make the Armsman a more attractive class to play.

Or how about a non-morphing 'Battle Rage' type effect, where you are immune to being mezzed/rooted/stunned and do double/triple damage for 30 secs (on a 30 min timer) - taking Determination for tanks one step further?

Or you could have an effect whereby the % chance to critical hit is increased by 100% or similar - and this could effect the whole group rather than just the Armsman himself - sort of like a 'Serene Presence' type effect where the Armsman's skill and valour inspire the whole group like the presence of such an individual would boost morale in a group of soldiers in reality.

Just a couple of ideas for you to expand upon/flame

 

[Ocalinn]

Originally posted by Danamyr
Personally I feel that the use of Pole is far too endurance heavy. I had a Lvl 30 Arms (pre /lvl) that was specced 2 H Slash. Great group character, but absolutely tonk solo because he had no defence whatsoever.

When the next patch came in that gave everyone the free single line /respec I changed him from 2 H Slash to Slash Pole.

The damage wasn't jaw dropping over the 2 H Slash styles, but the end bar was empty after 3 styled swings - err...that sucks!

If the purists are going to maintain that Armsmen should not get any magical abilities (and I am not saying I disagree with the idea of purisim), then perhaps if they lowered the end cost of pole styles by 50% or so, then that would make the Armsman a more attractive class to play.

Or how about a non-morphing 'Battle Rage' type effect, where you are immune to being mezzed/rooted/stunned and do double/triple damage for 30 secs (on a 30 min timer) - taking Determination for tanks one step further?

Or you could have an effect whereby the % chance to critical hit is increased by 100% or similar - and this could effect the whole group rather than just the Armsman himself - sort of like a 'Serene Presence' type effect where the Armsman's skill and valour inspire the whole group like the presence of such an individual would boost morale in a group of soldiers in reality.

Just a couple of ideas for you to expand upon/flame

i like this