[DISCIPLE OF KHAINE] experienced DoK's

Phantomby

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Playing a DoK (only low level) but thoroughly enjoying it.

Only main gripe is the poor balance of classes for scenario rvr on the dark elf side.

So what are Dok's like when they hit 20+?
anyone found a path or ability they think is crucial to their play style?

So far im finding a tank or witch elf for dps and sticking to them like glue. Throw some heals on either myself or them depending on who is taking damage and assist their target to cut through any heals or just drop them asap.

its a fair amount to juggle, but i prefer this over mashing one key. (though playing a mincer in daoc nearly killed me for the effort to results quotent).

so what do i have to look forward to?

Any experienced DoK's please post your impressions, im eager to hear how you have found your feet.

thanks
Mix - DoK <Blackriver Raiders>
 

pikeh

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The DoK is a tough class to play in RvR, mostly down to choosing the secondary target whilst attacking, debuffing and moving.

Finding a tank and switching between you and him whilst in combat is pretty effective, but soon you will find you can hold your own against pretty much any class going.

At level 8 you get an attack called Soul Rend, that frenzy attacks your primary target, and heals your secondary target. It's badass.

DoK is the only class I've played so far, in OB and Live, it's so versatile, and I think the fact that it is hard to play is the main attraction to me.
 

Aada

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The DoK is a tough class to play in RvR, mostly down to choosing the secondary target whilst attacking, debuffing and moving.

Finding a tank and switching between you and him whilst in combat is pretty effective, but soon you will find you can hold your own against pretty much any class going.

At level 8 you get an attack called Soul Rend, that frenzy attacks your primary target, and heals your secondary target. It's badass.

DoK is the only class I've played so far, in OB and Live, it's so versatile, and I think the fact that it is hard to play is the main attraction to me.

But you are totally OP 1v1 though, hell no class should have the dps/healing ability like the DOK.
 

Phantomby

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hmm, this isnt the thread for nerf speculation

<tho if it were my guess would be on the SW with its roots, snares and ranged damage on the move kite tactics>
 

Aada

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hmm, this isnt the thread for nerf speculation

<tho if it were my guess would be on the SW with its roots, snares and ranged damage on the move kite tactics>

That is true but if you do not think the DOK is stupidly overpowered think again.

Many a times have i encountered a DOK in RVR/Scenario 3-4 levels lower then me and be totally humiliated because his heals mitigate my DPS mean while he is still hacking my health down with his silly dps as well.
 

Phantomby

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yup ive heard the same (not the reason i chose the class btw).
Low levels they are silly, but i think they even out past 10's, and tbh this game isnt about 1v1. against most things with heals you need to assist train it down. And by that i mean anything getting heals not just classes with heals.

anyway, back on track...
I think im going 13 torture, 8 dark rites. See how that pans out. I might end up switching more heavily into dark rites depending on what i tend to be doing most of in combat.
 

Grimlorn

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That is true but if you do not think the DOK is stupidly overpowered think again.

Many a times have i encountered a DOK in RVR/Scenario 3-4 levels lower then me and be totally humiliated because his heals mitigate my DPS mean while he is still hacking my health down with his silly dps as well.
There's nothing you can do about it though. I think pretty much all healers can 1v1 any other class that can't heal, especially early on. Not sure about endgame though, but if you nerfed all the healing classes it would really screw up the game group pvp wise I think.

I know KoD can also tank champions early game but I'm sure they can't do that forever.
 

Keata

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That is true but if you do not think the DOK is stupidly overpowered think again.

Many a times have i encountered a DOK in RVR/Scenario 3-4 levels lower then me and be totally humiliated because his heals mitigate my DPS mean while he is still hacking my health down with his silly dps as well.

You have to remember that everyone gets boosted in levels for rvr. Tier 2 its 18, i think its 8 in tier 1..
 

Apollyn

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You have to remember that everyone gets boosted in levels for rvr. Tier 2 its 18, i think its 8 in tier 1..

Doesnt really matter, someone lvl 12 when ur 16 will have less abilities, less armour and less mastery points spent.

DoKs are pretty much the only class I actively avoid engaging in 1 vs 1 on my WH. I must admit, I lose most fights to melee (I'm 25) unless I get a nice disarm or can open out of stealth, healers like zealot/shammy can be downed fast, sorcs as well but DoKs are just insane. Ive gotta balance defending against crazy DPS with trying to debuff healing, it just doesnt happen (prolly cos I dont have the skills) but I cant out DPS their healing fast enough before they tear me apart even with detaunts and disarms, and WH is pretty good at dmg.
 

Phantomby

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thats still a 1v1 situation though and if you nerf either of the abilities (damage or healing) they become a worthless class in groups.

This game realy is grp - zerg based and should be kept as such. I think you probably have a point but balancing for those situations is counter-productive in the larger scheme of things.
 

Xphyral

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ofcourse it's overpowered 1v1 it's a melee healer with utility, it shouldn't lose to a melee class that cannot heal itself. takes a bit more skill to play it well in a group though.
 

talima

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im playing a DoK just got 20 tonight wee ;)

1v1 yeah they are op cant imagine much can beat em. but they are i think the weakest healers its more about group healing ans shielding the hot's wont deal with a combined assault. which is the weakness you have to pressure they are vulnerable to burst. and AP denial tactics. they have to spend time attacking to build up healing power so if you can keep the pressure on they will stall and drop , but its not something to try alone ;)

the dps is aweful compared to a real dps class . at level 20 my attacks are doing about 150. the level 1 sorceress i started this morning over breakfast throws spells that do that much damage. so you really want to team up with a dps for level grind/questing, a DoK with a tank works to you dont kill fast but my word its amazing the vlume of things you can fight at once and not die that way!
 

Apollyn

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im playing a DoK just got 20 tonight wee ;)

1v1 yeah they are op cant imagine much can beat em. but they are i think the weakest healers its more about group healing ans shielding the hot's wont deal with a combined assault. which is the weakness you have to pressure they are vulnerable to burst. and AP denial tactics. they have to spend time attacking to build up healing power so if you can keep the pressure on they will stall and drop , but its not something to try alone ;)

the dps is aweful compared to a real dps class . at level 20 my attacks are doing about 150. the level 1 sorceress i started this morning over breakfast throws spells that do that much damage. so you really want to team up with a dps for level grind/questing, a DoK with a tank works to you dont kill fast but my word its amazing the vlume of things you can fight at once and not die that way!


OK, so a dual wielding DoK hits for 150 per strike, so 300 per 2 seconds without considering special attacks. Last night DoKs were dealin 200 hits on me with 300 crits, that drops me fast when you factor in special attacks.


Also, you say its all about team tactics etc but WH is specifically designed to go 1 vs 1 with utility classes and win, I lose to melee 1 vs 1 unless I'm lucky or they are poor. DoK will drop me stupidly fast and its a utility? I can kill any other healer/dps class fast but DoK is trouble. It does DPS not a mile away from me and heals himself well, makes life hard for us WHs in the back line :S.
 

Phantomby

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im playing a DoK just got 20 tonight wee ;)

1v1 yeah they are op cant imagine much can beat em. but they are i think the weakest healers its more about group healing ans shielding the hot's wont deal with a combined assault. which is the weakness you have to pressure they are vulnerable to burst. and AP denial tactics. they have to spend time attacking to build up healing power so if you can keep the pressure on they will stall and drop , but its not something to try alone ;)

the dps is aweful compared to a real dps class . at level 20 my attacks are doing about 150. the level 1 sorceress i started this morning over breakfast throws spells that do that much damage. so you really want to team up with a dps for level grind/questing, a DoK with a tank works to you dont kill fast but my word its amazing the vlume of things you can fight at once and not die that way!


how are you finding the DoK around your level? still competative? I hear the damage drops off but healing is ok.

tbh, even in the lower tiers, if my target is getting heals its difficult to take them down even with an assist. I usually give up and select a different target. (this is meant more as an observation about game mechanics and speed of taking someone down rather than a comment on doks damage)

im enjoying mine (only 11) by generally being a pain, living a long time even when assisted, though i think the cloth armour will start to tell in later levels next to a black orc or chosen and we will drop quite fast.
 

Jor

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I can kill any other healer/dps class fast but DoK is trouble.

Sounds ok for me, or wait: any(!) other but one class looks quite a bit OP to me :p

Playing a DoK myself (lvl10 atm) I can already see me loose DPS compared with a WE for example and having less defense/damage mitigation than a tank (s/s Black Ork for example). From what I heard DoK's start strong and even out around 20+ when people start to get some more special abilities. I played a dark Templar (DT) in AoC and choosed DoK for a reason - wanted to see if the (nearly) completely broken DT could be reborn as a DoK: melee+melee based lifeleeching. I loosed shield and the heavy armor but gained a second weapon. My feeling so far: DoK works a bit like a somewhat squishy DT in frenzy mode that NEEDS melee damage to gain healing and has some nice group features. Deny the DoK the melee damage and he can't really heal himself. So he has at least two Nemesis: ranged dps and burst dps. And even the HoT's are unreliable, Rend Soul can be disrupted even by lower level mobs for example. Still I enjoy my DoK atm as it is a no pain-no gain char with strengths and weaknesses and I need to use tactics to play it to his full potential, which makes the game fun to play.

But that's not the point anyway since WAR is a group/wargroup based game, right? Would be interesting to hear peoples comments about lvl30+ PvP in groups with a DoK - how do they do? Are they wanted/needed or are everybody and his grandma wants a full time healer like Zealot?
 

boinged

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With a 21 WE I'd love some HoTs from a friendly DoK. If I'm not getting focus fired then I can kill most classes but need my HP replenishing. I usually pop a HoT pot now in the absence of healing.

I may be biased but I'm thinking that healing tanks should be secondary to melee and ranged dps. Most people go for softer targets anyway and these guys can pile out more damage. Tanks have more HP and armour so should be able to survive longer but if my HP goes below half then that's only 1500 left which can go pretty fast.

Shamans are my favourite healer so far - nice AoE heals so as long as I run around close to them I'm ok, some sort of bubble skill and they can do a bit of damage to help things along. I prefer offensive play to defensive - would rather kill and die alot than have a standoff.
 

Ctuchik

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You know your one of the first for the nerf bat enjoy it while it lasts i guess :)

thats probably not true. i can think of a few other classes that played well, are TONS more overpowered then a equally well played DoK.

luckily theres not that many playing them, so i'm not gonna make the OP rerollers roll those by telling which classes they are ;)
 

Ctuchik

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I may be biased but I'm thinking that healing tanks should be secondary to melee and ranged dps.

but they ARE. the reasons healing classes seems OP now is because to few ppl are high lvl enough to get any counters for them. like reduced healing effect debuffs and other such stuff. once those are in play healers are quite squishy to say the least...
 
S

sacrem

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i am only level 16, but i think i have decided on a 5/15/5 specc. anything more in the other 2 specc don't look worth it to me, this specc give me good damage, decent debuffing and decent healing, also means i would have to loose so much damage by stacking willpower to make healing viable.

i am going for a more RvR support roll, probabl;y playing with a shaman and a Sorc most of the time.

i ain't got loads of XP yet, but just my 2 cents
 

Rhayn

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I was happily chopping away through the first two tiers, thinking how great bloodthirst was and stacked up on strength and weaponskill stuff. Worked like a charm.

What a rude awakening Tor Anroc was. Sent me whining on guildforum about how crappy the game was. The next day I respecced full DR for the grouphot and donned all my willpower gear, reluctantly accepting a much more defensive role.

Much to my surprise I found myself having a blast, and truely feeling I was making a worthwhile contribution to our side. So my advice would be this. Have fun sinking your blades into stuff for the first two tiers. By all means spec for Bloodthirst and stack up on strength. But be prepared to switch gears when you ding 22 and adapt a much more defensive role.
 

talima

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ok ill try to cover all points

WH VS DoK- firstly dok isnt a WH target or shouldnt be. DoK is a medium armour front line melee healer the classes that should be taking me out are teh tanks and ranged dps guys.
that being said if a WH uses his from stealth attacks on me and hits with a hard burst ill drop. we dont have the big heals of other healers were far more of a group healer and hot'er. if a WH just wanders up to me without using his stealth then yeah i fancy my chances but him being suicidal isnt my problem ;) the good WH go past me and utterly rape the pure healers and sorcs.

hows it going through T3
well the DOK has a problem in the leveling up field. to level we really want to be deep almost pure torture our melee dps tree and we are going to be stacking weapon skill and str. the other healers can get away with int/wis as prime stats , so yes my healing is dropping off. its still no problem for solo but in scenarios i feel it. but thats because of the gear and spec im using while leveling.
with a change out of tactics and keeping some high wilpower items i could swap them around and be more heal intensive.
our best use is to be but with a crowd of tanks/mauraders and sent up front as a line push , my gheal and hots do a great job of mass ehaling the whole group but healing through a co ordinated burst isnt my forte thats what the shamans and zeolots are behind us for.

my performance in the solo questing department is fantastic. can solo champs with a couple of adds survived pulls of 6 mobs all higher level. i kill pretty fast now takes around 6 skills to kill a same level mob.

one extremely handy hint i have found is rend soul can be retargetd mid cast to heal several targets . and this heal does scale with str/weapon skill.

really like the class so far
 

pikeh

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ok ill try to cover all points

WH VS DoK- firstly dok isnt a WH target or shouldnt be. DoK is a medium armour front line melee healer the classes that should be taking me out are teh tanks and ranged dps guys.
that being said if a WH uses his from stealth attacks on me and hits with a hard burst ill drop. we dont have the big heals of other healers were far more of a group healer and hot'er. if a WH just wanders up to me without using his stealth then yeah i fancy my chances but him being suicidal isnt my problem ;) the good WH go past me and utterly rape the pure healers and sorcs.

I've gotta say I agree with that. WH's do sick damage and it's one class that can consistently beat me if I'm not paying attention.
 

Jor

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I've gotta say I agree with that. WH's do sick damage and it's one class that can consistently beat me if I'm not paying attention.

Had my first 1:1 with a WH (both of us lvl12) and it was a close fight with him (her? can't remember) vanishing and re-attacking and dancing around (yes, I know, I have to practise that, too). Class-balancing wise it's ok if a HoT-healer like a DoK can be outdamaged by a burst/high DPS class. If the WH can jump me, he should have the advantage to kill me. The only thing that bothered me a bit, was that re-stealthing every time... I could barely land hits due to him dancing around and vanishing into stealth.

I should really roll a WE or WH and get a feel for that stealth behaviour myself, should make things easier in the next fights.
 

Phantomby

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So is everyone going torture / dark rites spec?

Ive been hearing sacrifice, has a lot to offer but is a different play style. So far im tryign to work out its gains / style over straight damage / hot spec.

anyone got any experience with sacrifice spec doks that would care to elaborate?
 

Rhayn

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Full DR here.

Ancient PC sadly, so trying to melee stuff turned out to be an exercize in futility. Working out well though.
 

pikeh

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I've been figuring out a few specs, Firstly I settled on this one;
Disciple of Khaine Career Builder - Warhammer Online
Seem's a good balance between the two, but as per usualy I'm more willing to try something not so obvious, maybe DR/Deep Sac spec or something, but Sacrifice isn't too good until mid 30's anyway.
 

Jor

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Way too early to talk about speccs for me, so far I invest points in DR to help my healing, no idea how this works out in the long run. I like all three lines for what they have to offer, I think I'll choose something in the melee/lifetap theme because my decision to roll a DoK mainly comes from AoC, where I played a Dark Templar and wasn't very satisfied with it's performance. So far the melee/lifeleech/group support abilities of my young DoK are nice, I'd love to see some kind of bonuses for positional styles as this would fit the DoK's role (to my mind). Kind of damage add bonus for "stabbing" from behind, bleed styles from side or else.
 

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