Politics Euro Elections, Freddyspoll.

[Gumbo]

This same poll is running on another forum I frequent with a suprising result. With the inclusion of UKIP this thread is clearly aimed at our UK members, but if you are a foreigner feel free to vote for the closest party that matches the party you will vote for in your country, but please comment as such.

 

[Raven]

Spoiling my ballot but tempted to vote UKIP to upset the BBC.

The Euro elections seem to have less point to local council elections though, its not like it makes any difference at the end of the day.

Slight niggle with the poll choices though, spoiling your ballot and not voting are two very different things and should have their own choices

 

[Gwadien]

I don't think I'll be voting, not entirely sure what I'm voting for...

Besides, my local MP (Keith Vaz) hardly does anything for its constituents, so how can I expect anyone to do anything at a European level?

 

[old.Tohtori]

I don't care really, not much into politics.

 

[ileks]

Not sure yet.

Do France, Germany et.c have their own versions of UKIP? Are they doing well or is this anti EU stuff a British thing?

 

[Jupitus]

@Gumbo - I took the liberty of editing in the choice between no vote vs spoiled ballot...hope that's ok...

 

[Gwadien]

@Gumbo - I took the liberty of editing in the choice between no vote vs spoiled ballot...hope that's ok...

Well Ravens true vote isn't there now

You're basically like North Korean man.

 

[Raven]

Yeah, I feel oppressed man

 

[Gumbo]

@Gumbo - I took the liberty of editing in the choice between no vote vs spoiled ballot...hope that's ok...

Yeah I suppose that makes sense, at least you have to show up to spoil your ballot, perhaps no vote should be renamed, 'can't be arsed'

 

[DaGaffer]

I'm not even sure if I can vote. I can't vote in national elections but I can vote in council elections, so I'm not sure about the Euros. But even if I could I don't know who I'd vote for as all the Irish parties seem exactly the fucking same to me, except Sinn Fein who are a bit more lefty than the others, but have Gerry Adams in charge so that's a non-starter for me anyway.

*edit* well fuck me, as a British citizen I can vote in all Irish elections. Quick, everyone move over, we can take the whole place over again!

 

[MYstIC G]

Honestly just don't know. Frankly none of them are saying "keep Europe but cut the bullshit" as far as I can tell.

 

[Gumbo]

Honestly just don't know. Frankly none of them are saying "keep Europe but cut the bullshit" as far as I can tell.

I suppose the closest to that, if you can believe them, would be the Tories with their renegotiation followed by referendum idea. But that's probably more a potato which will be hot come the General Election next year.

 

[Gwadien]

I don't think anyone could 'keep Europe but cut the bullshit' because end of the day, Britain has such little influence in comparison with France and Germany, so they'd respond with 'Like it, or fuck off.'

I think the only way the EU could change is if we actually call their bluff, leave, and they'll change their tune.. hopefully.

 

[MYstIC G]

I suppose the closest to that, if you can believe them, would be the Tories with their renegotiation followed by referendum idea. But that's probably more a potato which will be hot come the General Election next year.

That's just a win-win for them. If they do the referendum and we stay they can forever go "you all chose now shut the fuck up about it" and if we leave they can forever go "we returned Britain to the British" etc etc etc.

I don't think anyone could 'keep Europe but cut the bullshit' because end of the day, Britain has such little influence in comparison with France and Germany, so they'd respond with 'Like it, or fuck off.'

I think the only way the EU could change is if we actually call their bluff, leave, and they'll change their tune.. hopefully.

I sincerely doubt that would work in our favour, that's like standing in the middle of the desert and telling the guy who you need to buy water from that he better call you sir.

 

[Gwadien]

So do 'British' political parties join a 'European' political party?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11721146

 

[DaGaffer]

I don't think anyone could 'keep Europe but cut the bullshit' because end of the day, Britain has such little influence in comparison with France and Germany, so they'd respond with 'Like it, or fuck off.'

I think the only way the EU could change is if we actually call their bluff, leave, and they'll change their tune.. hopefully.

I used to think that if the UK (or rUK) left the EU it would be nothing but bad news, and on a personal level I'd rather it didn't happen, but the more I read about it, at a top line economic level, leaving the EU would probably do much less harm than people assume because Britain is simply so different in its economic behaviour, and much more like the US than the rest of the EU, and powerful enough that it could trade with the EU with very little extra overhead. However, at the social level, Britain would almost certainly become even more unequal than it already is. Yes there might be more jobs as immigration is curbed, but they won't be good jobs and a lot of social protection people take for granted would be stripped away even more quickly than is already happening. Britain wouldn't be the Workshop of Europe as it once was, it would become the sweatshop of Europe.

None of this is to say that the EU works properly, it doesn't, but even the French and German populations are starting to get disenchanted with the EU as it stands, and I think reform is inevitable anyway.

 

[ECA]

Voting ukip.

None of the other parties want to talk about the eu, it splits all of them.
Sorry but refusal to even talk about the EU doesn't get you a vote.

I don't care that farage is probably a racist and a bit of a cunt.

 

[Raven]

I used to be pretty anti EU but these days I actually want to stay in but I also want it to be more transparent and certainly more democratic. I also think the open borders thing is a big pule of wank. I am not anti foreigner or anything (I actually welcome them on the whole) but our population as a whole is spiralling out of control for various reasons. People living longer, immigration, people having too many kids etc. curbing immigration would be a quick partial fix.

Having said that, it makes zero difference because Europe is so badly broken. There should be less MEPs and they should be made up of elected MPs represented by each party in each respective country. Not someone nobody has ever heard of who is voted in simply because he is a particular parties representative.

 

[Job]

Thete are very strong right wing parties all over the EU...its hardly a surprise with free for all immigration and economic mismanagement.
Of course they all want to unite which has more than a sniff of fascism and basically were on our way to ww3

 

[Tom]

Each of the Conservative and Labour election pamphlets shoved through my letterbox have said (I paraphrase) "it's a two-horse race, no point voting for anyone else". Fuck anyone who tells me that my vote would be wasted if it wasn't for a major party. I'm voting for the little guy, just to annoy them.

 

[Gwadien]

Yes there might be more jobs as immigration is curbed, but they won't be good jobs and a lot of social protection people take for granted would be stripped away even more quickly than is already happening. Britain wouldn't be the Workshop of Europe as it once was, it would become the sweatshop of Europe.

I disagree...

The UK was a pretty liberal country in comparison to the rest of the Europe, I think the minimum wage stuff is for the newer European countries, I mean, I believe we had the minimum wage before we joined the EU, (Although it may have increased due to the EU.) But I don't think we'd have a complete U-Turn on 'european' policies, I think we'd keep some of them, that make sense, otherwise there'd be some-what of an up-roar.

What I don't understand about trade and such is why would Japan (I believe they said they would..) stop trading and operating in Britain if we left the EU.

I'm just a bit confused why we can't do what the Swiss do (I forgot what it's called) where they're in the trading part, but nothing else, makes sense to me?

 

[DaGaffer]

I used to be pretty anti EU but these days I actually want to stay in but I also want it to be more transparent and certainly more democratic. I also think the open borders thing is a big pule of wank. I am not anti foreigner or anything (I actually welcome them on the whole) but our population as a whole is spiralling out of control for various reasons. People living longer, immigration, people having too many kids etc. curbing immigration would be a quick partial fix.

Having said that, it makes zero difference because Europe is so badly broken. There should be less MEPs and they should be made up of elected MPs represented by each party in each respective country. Not someone nobody has ever heard of who is voted in simply because he is a particular parties representative.

The population rate is such a red herring, in absolute terms its less than 1%, and more importantly, its a revolving door, very few people arriving in the UK are here to stay. And people are definitely not having too many kids; the birth rate is still below the replacement rate, as it is everywhere in the EU except Ireland, which, incidentally, is why those immigrants are useful. Of course the real elephant in the room is longevity, and that has nothing to do with the foreign hordes...

 

[Raven]

I dunno, there are huge amount of immigrants in Northampton, mostly Poles. Nice enough people as it happens...actually generally really friendly and polite and more importantly hard working. Much more so than many of the English chavs that hang about bleeding the state. Unfortunately we can't do a swap, send our workshy somewhere else and replace them all with people who aren't bone idle.

Ageing and longer living population is obviously the main contributing factor but without turning people into glue at 80 there isn't a great deal we can do. Immigration is one thing we can do something about.

 

[Gwadien]

I dunno, there are huge amount of immigrants in Northampton, mostly Poles. Nice enough people as it happens...actually generally really friendly and polite and more importantly hard working. Much more so than many of the English chavs that hang about bleeding the state. Unfortunately we can't do a swap, send our workshy somewhere else and replace them all with people who aren't bone idle.

Ageing and longer living population is obviously the main contributing factor but without turning people into glue at 80 there isn't a great deal we can do. Immigration is one thing we can do something about.

Yeah, but as you say, what would happen to Wolverhampton if you had the bone idle chavs and got rid of the Poles?

Immigration isn't my grievance with the EU, it's the amount of money spent on it, that's all, really.

 

[DaGaffer]

I disagree...

The UK was a pretty liberal country in comparison to the rest of the Europe, I think the minimum wage stuff is for the newer European countries, I mean, I believe we had the minimum wage before we joined the EU, (Although it may have increased due to the EU.) But I don't think we'd have a complete U-Turn on 'european' policies, I think we'd keep some of them, that make sense, otherwise there'd be some-what of an up-roar.

What I don't understand about trade and such is why would Japan (I believe they said they would..) stop trading and operating in Britain if we left the EU.

I'm just a bit confused why we can't do what the Swiss do (I forgot what it's called) where they're in the trading part, but nothing else, makes sense to me?

Nope, no minimum wage before the EU, and the UK has actually opted out of most EU employment legislation already (like the Working Time Directive), so I hardly see things getting better for employees if the UK leaves altogether (expect pressure on holidays towards American levels for a start). You only have to look at zero hour contracts to see which way the wind is blowing in the UK, and that's with a certain amount of EU social protection.

The risk to the UK for Japanese and other foreign transplants is a. access to EU development funds (Nissan, Honda and Toyota all got EU regional development grants), b. access to European markets without any tariffs. Chances are the UK could still operate a free trade agreement with the EU (it would have to be negotiated though) but the development grants would no longer exist and incentives would exist to move elsewhere, but to be honest that can happen inside the EU anyway (e.g. Dell moving from Ireland to Poland).

The model UKIP want is exactly the same as the Swiss model, and given both countries economic make up (dominated by financial services) there's a logic to that, which is why I think the economic case for staying in the EU isn't that strong. The risk to that is that the Germans in particular have always fancied setting up Frankfurt as Europe's financial capital, but London was too entrenched; a UK pullout could give an incentive to the other EU countries to support Frankfurt in pretty much the same way as Scotland will lose financial services to London if they leave the UK.

 

[Job]

If Britain leaves the investors will flock to the pound...confidence in the Euro will crash after it loses half of the only countries making any money.
Germany will have to shore up the lot.

 

[Embattle]

Like others have pointed out it isn't the idea of a strong Europe that is the problem, it is the very poor implementation, as someone pointed out earlier the Tories have stated a desire for change but I doubt they have the capability or the will to fight hard enough for the change.

 

[ECA]

If Britain leaves the investors will flock to the pound...confidence in the Euro will crash after it loses half of the only countries making any money.
Germany will have to shore up the lot.

Shit sign me up, we can leave the eu AND hand the germans crippling debt and a failed state? It's like two christmasses at once.

 

[Scouse]

I don't care that farage is probably a racist

Or borderline facist?

A vote for UKIP is idiocy tbh. But then, so is voting in our current 'democracy'...

 

[Draylor]

Threads like this help restore my faith in you folks ... the vast majority couldnt give a shit.

Voting card arrived a few weeks ago and was promptly filed where it belongs.