English Warhammer Servers

[rynnor]

But no point arguing with you really. Obvious you just want to down talk goa whatever is said.

Not really - I have no particular axe to grind about GOA - I just think that a direct subscription is better than one via a middleman (no matter how good the middleman) which is probably logically un-assailable as a point but your welcome to your opinion.

 

[Oskorei]

This is a very important point, and I really really really really really hope you get this ironed out. Mythic need to at least mention that you exist on the US English speaking sites, otherwise I foresee people getting very confused and playing on US servers without realising there is infact a seperate company with servers in EU.

Yup, the only reason why I play DAoC on US server now is because I downloaded the demo from a site...turned out to be US version...

Whatever happens, GoA has to do a really crappy job should I play WAR on a US server: the time difference is horrible. I probably would just leave the game entirely. But from what IainC said it looks like they've got alot of stuff sorted, so I'm not too worried. Also like the idea that they moved (at least partially) to Ireland. Less striking there

 

[Calaen]

I never had any problems with GOA, the few times something came up Right now did what it was meant to do.

Roll on WAR!!!

 

[Votan]

My main gripe was not so much with GOA but more with Open Tranist. Assuredly GOA failed rather miserably in certain regions like customer communication but one should give them the benefit of the doubt. It turned out to be OT that was causing the majority of the issues.. for me I kept on perusing the forums after I'd stopped playing so I missed the whole Prydwen debacle. There are of course other "issues" that have discredited GOA and some of its staff members. One can but hope that they (company & individuals) learned something from it.
Sure GOA wasn't perfect, far from some would say, but things can change.. even GOA

I'm trying the US DAoC server (classic) atm. I'm enjoying myself but its certainly not the same sort of enjoyment I had when playing on Excalibur (prior to clustering). The mentality there is quite different. I've lived there so I knew what to expect but I can certainly sympathise with other people who would almost feel offended or excluded by the said mentality. I'm just going to stay right here in Europe with the EU WAR version.. if need be I can always switch

 

[Gahn]

2 things im going to add here for general consumption:

1- DAOC was killed almost entirely by the "i want to 8v8 " and "dont add" kiddies, NOT goa. sorry, no, your wrong, it was.

2- bear in mind, IainC and the others are the monkeys, not the organ grinders, if you want them to go on giving out information, dont kill the messanger
(and no im not saying you are, i just know how these threads tend to go )

I almost felt off the chair rofling, you are a golden mine for comedy!

 

[Mabs]

I almost felt off the chair rofling, you are a golden mine for comedy!

glad to oblige
but im not suprised you didnt try to prove me wrong

and on the off-chance you do
list me all the things that drove the community apart , and generate the most whine on FH and elsewhere (apart from CM ofc)

 

[IainC]

Paid attention to what? I have better things to do than read every thread here and it seems my guess was pretty accurate in terms of outsourced customer services.

I dont think this is a great thing either tbh - you can either

* sub with Mythic and get your CS direct from the company that wrote the game.

* sub with GOA and get your CS from an Irish call centre setup by a French comms/hosting company who provide services on behalf of Mythic.

Which one sounds better to you

WAR is being entirely run from Ireland apart from a few senior managers and the marketing team who are staying in Paris. All the customer support, community management, technical teams, QA and so forth are in Dublin. The CS isn't outsourced, it's in-house. The CS teams are training up already so that they will be fully conversant with the game and they will have access to the same tools and resources as the Mythic CS teams.

 

[Flimgoblin]

300? Seems a lot especially in France where its difficult to get rid of staff.

Especially, hiring on a demand that is currently hypothetical - is the CS to be run from India by any chance?

They're taking on the Persians...

(and relocated to Dublin for WAR)

 

[Gahn]

glad to oblige
but im not suprised you didnt try to prove me wrong

and on the off-chance you do
list me all the things that drove the community apart , and generate the most whine on FH and elsewhere (apart from CM ofc)

Pretending that a fist of 8vs8 and soloers (of whom only a few were aggressive towards other ppl in game) drove away almost 4000 customers is worth a laugh dude.

My numbers are Cluster and Bots are included wise:

Prydwen crash and how it was managed drove away more than half of Prydwen pop (from 4000 to 3400) [Goa fault period]

Meanwhile Toa drove away 1/3 of the pop (from 3400 to 1200) [Mythic fault].

Now of those 1200 ppl left try to take a guess of who left for what:

8vs8 ppl/Soloers or the so called RvR guilds packed (more or less) 200 accounts Cluster wise, some gone cause of the action (tis is entirely to blame on the Pop itselfs).

What was left of em, left after the TT incident and the management of it [Goa fault].

From that point on it was an obvious spiral to oblivion.

I really don't think that 100 peeps pissed off cause of adding or bad words in game could change the numbers.

 

[Flimgoblin]

I'd say the 8v8 attitudes and very very divisive infighting on these boards didn't help the cluster any, but IMO clustering itself had a bad impact on the game:

It poisoned the realm game, more so than any /bg joining cross realmer, and it's the realm game that a lot of the "zergers" played for.

That and the reverse-ToA effect that started with Darkness Rising, they toned down all the PvE in order to push people into RvR - except ToA in the first place meant a lot of people who were still around were quite happy with some PvE (even if they whinged about it). That and the three months between the first version of the "easy-ToA" on pendragon and it finally hitting europe was pretty demoralising for anyone wanting to do any PvE - "why bother, it'll be really easy soon".

From an 8v8 player's point of view, clustering = more 8v8 opponents and PvE nerfing meant easier PLing of alts for your group make up, so this wouldn't have put them off nearly as much. However the 8v8ers have always been a minority, where do the new 8v8ers come from? trees? no - they come from the general population, and when that declines you no longer have New8v8Group appearing when OldUber8v8Group goes somewhere else...

TT incident? meh, if GOA hadn't done what they'd done it'd have pissed off at least as many people, if not more - just ones less vocal on the RvR boards. But there's been plenty of words written on that subject on these boards, and I really can't be bothered getting back into it again...

Also don't underestimate the damage WoW did - it dragged a lot of people away, probably more to blame for the 3200->1200 than ToA.

And as games age they lose subscribers - it's the trend, it happens to every game of this kind (WoW may be an exception, EvE is an exception so far, but EvE is different).

 

[Calaen]

I really enjoyed TOA, NF killed the game for me too much space not enough clustered fighting.

Also with regards to Prydwen the numbers were dropping off well before the server crash.

 

[Case]

TOA started the death of the game but there`s a number of factors that all contributed. SWG caused a big initial hit to numbers but WoW really caused a massive reduction in numbers. I didn`t like the WoW beta and never intended to play it but after TOA I couldn`t move to WoW fast enough.

I only came back just before the release of Glastonbury and after several patches that made TOA much much easier to play. I can honestly say that in terms of playerbase nothing did as much damage as WoW though, the Guardians of power alliance which before WoW was easily the strongest on prydwen albion virtually ceased to exist within a few weeks of WoW coming out.

Personally I feel the game could have gone from strength to strength everything felt so positive, then along came TOA and boom the game began it`s downward spiral. The issue now is that the game is old, very old indeed.

 

[Flimgoblin]

without ToA people would have got bored. I'm pretty sure someone somewhere had stats that expansions don't bring in new customers, they just keep old ones.

TOA did drive away some people, whether they'd have left anyway is hard to determine though - certainly the impact could have been less negative were it not for a lot of the bugs.

 

[ford prefect]

without ToA people would have got bored. I'm pretty sure someone somewhere had stats that expansions don't bring in new customers, they just keep old ones.

TOA did drive away some people, whether they'd have left anyway is hard to determine though - certainly the impact could have been less negative were it not for a lot of the bugs.

ToA was fun for one toon, but at the time I had 15 level 50's, so it quickly lost its appeal. ToA soon became a lot of work and time, for little in return, so I personally think it was a bad move on the part of Mythic. Granted it is easier now, but still annoying. It would have been better to have more Mythic written content - new quests, drops and a gradual expansion of frontiers, rather than ToA, but what is done is done.

That aside, I just saw a good 5 minute preview on TV for Warhammer. It was shown on Gamer TV on Bravo, and it wasn't badly done at all

Coming up to christmas though, Blizzard seems to be pulling out all the stops to attract new subscribers to WoW, with a celebrity campaign including Mr T and William Shatner, all shown at primetime. I doubt this is because of any concern about War, but it says a lot about how far MMO advertising has come in the last few years.

 

[Ctuchik]

Someone may trot out the usual chestnuts about ping but these are pretty academic these days - my ping to one place or another is not purely a factor of distance

nope. more often then not i have a equal ping to american servers and european servers, no matter what game i play.

and lets face it. even if ppl DO have 300 ms ping to a US server it aint gonna be anything u can notice anyway. ppl only use that as a bad excuse of being a shit player most of the time.

 

[Ctuchik]

Prydwen crash and how it was managed drove away more than half of Prydwen pop (from 4000 to 3400) [Goa fault period]

dude even i isnt that fucking shit at math.. how the hell is 600 of 4000 ppl MORE THEN HALF??

 

[Ctuchik]

TOA did drive away some people, .

every game expansion "drives away" certain ppl. mostly the hardcore ppl that already had a "fnnished" toon and felt like they had to start all over again. the casuals on the other hand dont feel it like that because they just kept doing what they always did.

even WoW lost customers when TBC came out. that was also mainly the hardcore guilds with full T3 gear that found themself being outgeared by non epic items even if they were lvl 70 and had those old dungeon sets.

it happens in every game where theres ppl that feel they are "done", IE they have the best of the best of whats currently available in terms of gear.

starting all over again in an expansion is something some ppl just can't take.

 

[Fafnir]

even WoW lost customers when TBC came out. that was also mainly the hardcore guilds with full T3 gear that found themself being outgeared by non epic items even if they were lvl 70 and had those old dungeon sets.

it happens in every game where theres ppl that feel they are "done", IE they have the best of the best of whats currently available in terms of gear.

starting all over again in an expansion is something some ppl just can't take.

Well they should really go and take lessons from Blizzard in marketing. Sure alot of players left at TBC launch but still they had 9.000.000 paying subscribers a few weeks ago, but had a bit over 8.000.000 at TBC launch, so they've grown since then expansion release.

 

[Fafnir]

But truth be told the Online market today is far larger than its ever been. My largest concer is that more people than they planned for will start playing war. I remember WoW launch the lag due to the large number of people. So i hope GoA, Mythic is prepared for a rush and have server in backup if needed, and dont let the players suffer lag to due overcrowding of servers.

 

[Gahn]

dude even i isnt that fucking shit at math.. how the hell is 600 of 4000 ppl MORE THEN HALF??

The over all numbers were Cluster wise: Prydwen 1100 - Excalibur 3000.
Half of Prydwen pop = 600 more or less.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Well that's IOTTMCO

 

[WiZe^]

Well that's IOTTMCO

Intuitively Obvious To the Most Casual Observer

 

[IainC]

The over all numbers were Cluster wise: Prydwen 1100 - Excalibur 3000.
Half of Prydwen pop = 600 more or less.

Assuming that 600 people did quit over the database crash - and I personally think it was a lot less than that - you're making the mistake of assuming that subscriber numbers are the same as the nightly online average player numbers. That's only ever the case if all of the players are online every single night. It's not really possible to distinguish between Excalibur players and Prydwen players from the point of view of subscriber numbers but in general the common conversion factor is that the number of subscribers is around 5 times the average primetime figures.

I also think that a lot more of those who did quit Prydwen simply went to play on other EU servers such as Excalibur. Even towards the end of the reimbursement process coming across closed accounts when we were working through the list was pretty rare.

 

[rampant]

iainc - can you get GOA to not use their naff flash websites? - tell them to KISS!

one of the most off putting parts of GOA is their insistance on using outdated and slow flash driven websites

 

[ford prefect]

I also think that a lot more of those who did quit Prydwen simply went to play on other EU servers such as Excalibur. Even towards the end of the reimbursement process coming across closed accounts when we were working through the list was pretty rare.

I would agree with that, although I would say that for many the Prydwen crash didn't do subscription numbers any favours, and for many if it wasn't the straw that broke the camels back for many (cough backup), it was certainly a contributing factor along with other incidents and problems, that lead to the current server population.

Still what is done is done, and I again express the hope that GoA will learn from previous mistakes, and take what they have learned to War, and that in future it will be much more open about policies and licencing limitations from the word go with war.

 

[Reza]

Even towards the end of the reimbursement process coming across closed accounts when we were working through the list was pretty rare.

Requiel, you might recall that the "reimbursement" policy relied soley on players reporting to GOA via "rightnow" what they had missing.

Those who didnt report didnt get reimbursed.

Those who decided to simply stop playing rather than report and wait an unspecified period still have never had their items replaced (i still have items missing on unimportant alts that i only came to realise about months after i made my important reports).

Those who returned to the game/resubcribed long after the database corruption and found characters with deleted items were at a high risk of being left non the wiser as the the cause of their missing items and thus were v likely to simply quit. The neccessary information regarding what was required of them to attempt recovery of the items was buried deep in some old news post on the eu daoc site (i found this point probably the most rediculous). The only real chance of catching these players before they quit permanently was if the community informed them directly 1st.

The "reimbursement" process involved large amounts of ingame money to make up for the inablity to replace random drops and crafted items. This totaly screwed up prydwens economy by flooding it with money supply and we got the obvious inflation that followed. This (much like real world large increases in money supply) benefited those who were lucky enough to get their cash reimbursement 1st (lucky enough to report what was missing early or were E&E and able to skip up the list ;-) ). The early cash receivers had the increased money with little or non of the inflation (it always lags). Those who received money last had the inflation before they got their cash. Prydwens economy had thousands of hours of goods and services deleted replaced simply by more ingame money that inturn chased the remaining undeleted goods and services.

Amusingly we also had those funny stealth lore swords littering the server as well. In the end a roll back would have been best.


This is just a summary of one of the many events that demonstrated to me that GoA ontop of the fundamental problem of lacking the tools (cash also im guessing) needed to provide the kind of service I wanted (and probably they would have liked to provide) , also often choose to try and hide their mistakes/incompetencies.

 

[Nate]

Well said Reza, people tend to forget the shear amount of utter shambles that was the Prydwen crash and how it was "handled". I couldn't get over it that for someone who had one Char only that was completely empty of all items/cash was expected to keep his account open for an undisclosed amount of months, just to get them back and have a small apology. Was this compensation for the money/time he waisted waiting on what was in effect the companys own fault? Was it ****.

 

[Gahn]

Assuming that 600 people did quit over the database crash - and I personally think it was a lot less than that - you're making the mistake of assuming that subscriber numbers are the same as the nightly online average player numbers. That's only ever the case if all of the players are online every single night. It's not really possible to distinguish between Excalibur players and Prydwen players from the point of view of subscriber numbers but in general the common conversion factor is that the number of subscribers is around 5 times the average primetime figures.

I also think that a lot more of those who did quit Prydwen simply went to play on other EU servers such as Excalibur. Even towards the end of the reimbursement process coming across closed accounts when we were working through the list was pretty rare.

I'm pretty sure u are understimating the Prydwen crash (the largest Hib alliance lost alot of players for that and entire Guilds also).
I'll skip the easy way and won't tell u that this isn't the 1st time either that u understimate something ^^

5 times the online population would have been 20000 Uk English players Sub base if i'm not wrong. If that's true, it makes me even more sad -.-

 

[Case]

Quite a few points you make there Reza are totally unfounded and borderline wrong. For a start if people didn`t report they lost stuff then how on earth are GOA meant to replace it? Mythic's advice to GOA at the time was to wipe the database (this is from memory please correct me if i`m wrong) would you have prefered to start again with zero?

Now on the other hand I know for certain that a lot of people didn`t return to DAoC from WoW because of the prydwen issues. At least 10 or 15 people I know decided not to bother after hearing of all the problems and went onto other games or just ended up sticking with WoW so it`s not just about who cancelled it`s about the effect on people thinking of returning or starting up.

Anyway point is hopefully GOA have gained some good experience from this.

 

[Faeldawn]

2 things im going to add here for general consumption:

1- DAOC was killed almost entirely by the "i want to 8v8 " and "dont add" kiddies, NOT goa. sorry, no, your wrong, it was.

2- bear in mind, IainC and the others are the monkeys, not the organ grinders, if you want them to go on giving out information, dont kill the messanger
(and no im not saying you are, i just know how these threads tend to go )

Your an idiot.