Politics Ed Miliband Living Wage

[rynnor]

You've never worked with Germans extensively I see.

Never.

In factory work I'm talking specifically.

 

[Scouse]

They aren't efficient as everyone says but they are awkward, inflexible and pretty laid back with regards to deadlines.

This. They have very set job definitions and employers are not allowed to ask them to exceed them for any reason. Anything above and beyond is out of the question. It forces management to plan better - which is one of the main problems in UK businesses - management tends to be shit and/or lazy - relying on the extra work of their workers to pull them out of holes all the time (flying by the seat of the pants is a "cool" thing to do for some in the UK). German management doesn't do that.

And you know what? They're happier in their workplaces, feel more valued and do the job asked of them without complaint.

Seems to me that the Germans have the balance right on that particular point.

 

[dysfunction]

Unfortunately they tend to work in Silos are not very efficient or effective at getting things done.

 

[Scouse]

Unfortunately they tend to work in Silos are not very efficient or effective at getting things done.

They perform scripted tasks like demons. And with proper planning (which the germans are all about) they work like a charm.

For the British the stifling lack of freedom to do simple tasks outside your area is painful. However, not as painful as the envy I see from British people at how well their German counterparts are treated and paid compared to them - even within the same company.

German worker? Job safe. Well paid. British worker? Lower pay. Laid off.

 

[rynnor]

German worker? Job safe. Well paid. British worker? Lower pay. Laid off.

I think its fundamentally about the difference in labour relations which is the toxic legacy of union excesses in the 70s.

 

[Scouse]

I think its fundamentally about the difference in labour relations which is the toxic legacy of union excesses in the 70s.

I think it's fundamentally about a bitch populace who fight amongst each other rather than for each other.

It's almost like we've been suckered in to the "american dream" - which is called that because it only exists when you're asleep.

 

[rynnor]

I think it's fundamentally about a bitch populace who fight amongst each other rather than for each other.

It's almost like we've been suckered in to the "american dream" - which is called that because it only exists when you're asleep.

Thatcher has a lot to do with the current predicament but she was a reaction to union excess.

 

[Scouse]

Thatcher has a lot to do with the current predicament but she was a reaction to union excess.

Disagree. The action taken against unions in the UK was pre-planned in conjunction with the US. Thatcher and Regan were the chief political puppets of the vested interests who brought about the abject failure that is laissez-faire capitalism.

Part of that plan was the essential neutering of unions - which were an obstacle to the inevitable wage declines that we've seen since the end of the 70's.

But her reforms have been very effective. Wealth is more concentrated now in a very small percentage of the population than at any other time.

 

[rynnor]

Disagree. The action taken against unions in the UK was pre-planned in conjunction with the US. Thatcher and Regan were the chief political puppets of the vested interests who brought about the abject failure that is laissez-faire capitalism.

Part of that plan was the essential neutering of unions - which were an obstacle to the inevitable wage declines that we've seen since the end of the 70's.

But her reforms have been very effective. Wealth is more concentrated now in a very small percentage of the population than at any other time.

Nah - you forget how truly terrible the 70s unions were - they lost the popular support and everything stems from that. Thatcher basically got in on a pledge to rein in the unions and stop the country being held to ransom which she did - no vested interests required.

 

[Scouse]

Nah - you forget how truly terrible the 70s unions were - they lost the popular support and everything stems from that. Thatcher basically got in on a pledge to rein in the unions and stop the country being held to ransom which she did - no vested interests required.

I'm not forgetting how bad the unions could be. I understand how the strikes were counterproductive. However, I what I said still stands.

 

[Embattle]

The Unions ensured their own destruction partly by destroying the companies their members worked. You'll find that even with the reduced power unions exert, people like me want to fight on a unions side about as much as the bankers side.

 

[rynnor]

The fundamental truth is that people at the bottom are every bit as greedy and self serving as those at the top.

So when they had power thru unions they went crazy in an ultimately self destructive rampage that was the final nail on the coffin of manufacturing.

 

[Scouse]

The fundamental truth is that people at the bottom are every bit as greedy and self serving as those at the top.

I've said this all along.

It gives you genuine insight into how greedy people at the top are and how little of a fuck they give about anyone else but themselves.

Systemic change is the only way to combat our own nature.

 

[Raven]

You haven't mentioned systematic change in a while, I have missed it.

 

[Scouse]

You haven't mentioned systematic change in a while, I have missed it.

Don't think I ever mentioned systematic change. But it would be a good method to achieve what I'm after, I guess

 

[MYstIC G]

systematic

Go greased lightning...