Question Economic Situation in European Countries

[Ormorof]

i love hull, dont get me wrong, it is one of the best places ive lived, it definately has a much worse rep than it deserves, but it is a very quirky place, but fantastically fun, but as with any city, as long as you avoid dodgy areas its not too bad, the area around newland avenue etc is very nice, but does seem to be mostly students (i spent a few summers in Hull and a lot of shops closed for weeks at a time because there were no students to spend money in them), i also lived in Cottingham which is a lovely village just outside Hull (lived in the Lawns which were awesome), its still amazingly cheap, i had a massive room (about 25sq metres) with all bills (gas, electricity, water and 15mb internet) for £240 a month, admiteddly i shared the house (and none of the other rooms were as big and we all paid the same), with 9 other people but it was totally worth it

i now live in Helsinki and i still hurt everytime i buy or pay for anything and mutter "in Hull that would be a third of the price..."

edit; i love it, but it has its risks! i was mugged once (punched in face with a knuckle duster, luckily not hurt or scarred too bad), burgled 3 times (twice in the same house), and i know many others who were burgled every xmas/easter simply because the robbers knew exactly when the students were away (and since most of the student landlords put a big sign in the front of their houses its easy to tell which is a student house!)

 

[cHodAX]

The UK's structural deficit existed a long, long time before the current mess.

Yes it has been a long time in the making, no single party or person are completely guilty but there is a huge amount of collective blame cake to be shared around and we all personally need to small slice of it.

 

[old.Tohtori]

i now live in Helsinki and i still hurt everytime i buy or pay for anything and mutter "in Hull that would be a third of the price..."

Then again, the likelyhood of you getting mugged or burgled in Helsinki are very very small

Not to mention, if you do, healthcare!

 

[rynnor]

Moving south is not the solution. Encouraging private enterprise in the North is what you do. Anything else is purely a step down the road of evacuating the North entirely.

Encourage it with public money you mean - then its not really private enterprise is it really?

Not everywhere in the North has no jobs - there are similar places down south but the system should help unemployed people relocate to places with jobs if local unemployment is high.

 

[Chilly]

Encourage it with public money you mean - then its not really private enterprise is it really?

No, it's not what I mean.

What I mean is educate people, improve access to entrepreneurial services and maybe throw in the odd small tax break for a short period to kick start things. What I do NOT mean is employ 100,000 people to phone each other all day doing "work".

 

[rynnor]

No, it's not what I mean.

What I mean is educate people, improve access to entrepreneurial services and maybe throw in the odd small tax break for a short period to kick start things.

I dont think those schemes have ever worked - if you give people help at the start they'll likely collapse when it goes - entrepneurs and govt intervention dont mix.

We wasted millions for decades on regional schemes with no real sucess so they were dropped.

In the long term you cant fight the market - if an area has natural advantages whats the point of trying to counteract that with state funding?

 

[xomer]

omg i know better statistics on the economic situation that there is in Hull than in ma country

 

[Chilly]

I dont think those schemes have ever worked - if you give people help at the start they'll likely collapse when it goes - entrepneurs and govt intervention dont mix.

We wasted millions for decades on regional schemes with no real sucess so they were dropped.

In the long term you cant fight the market - if an area has natural advantages whats the point of trying to counteract that with state funding?

I agree, to a point, but it if everyone moves to London the country will collapse. There's got to be middle ground, and if it costs us money to stay there then so be it.

 

[Vasconcelos]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/29/opinion/29krugman.html?_r=1

The zealous euro / dolar parity defense from Germany is killing half Europe. Why they dont let the Central Bank to devaluate the euro so at least we can have some economic breath via price competitivity of our exports?
Prolly because the vast majority of ze germans exports are destined to the rest of the euro countries, thus, theyr not interested in a devaluated euro

 

[DaGaffer]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/29/opinion/29krugman.html?_r=1

The zealous euro / dolar parity defense from Germany is killing half Europe. Why they dont let the Central Bank to devaluate the euro so at least we can have some economic breath via price competitivity of our exports?
Prolly because the vast majority of ze germans exports are destined to the rest of the euro countries, thus, theyr not interested in a devaluated euro

That's an oversimplification; Germany will be equally fucked if half of Europe can no longer afford their products (and about a quarter of German exports are outside the Eurozone, hardly insignificant). Bottom line is that a single currency for wildly divergent economies is clearly a bad idea, but its almost impossible for anyone to leave without making themselves even worse off in the short-term.

 

[Vasconcelos]

That's an oversimplification; Germany will be equally fucked if half of Europe can no longer afford their products (and about a quarter of German exports are outside the Eurozone, hardly insignificant). Bottom line is that a single currency for wildly divergent economies is clearly a bad idea, but its almost impossible for anyone to leave without making themselves even worse off in the short-term.

Problem is that they cannot let either Italy or Spain to reach the same situation than Ireland, cuz no matter how hard they'd try, a rescue for those countries wouldnt be posible due to their size.

Im inclined to believe that a devaluation of the euro is due soon if the markets still carry on with their attacks to the national debt of the "weaker" euro countries.

Maybe is a good time to buy some dollahs?

 

[xomer]

Problem is that they cannot let either Italy or Spain to reach the same situation than Ireland, cuz no matter how hard they'd try, a rescue for those countries wouldnt be posible due to their size.

Im inclined to believe that a devaluation of the euro is due soon if the markets still carry on with their attacks to the national debt of the "weaker" euro countries.

Maybe is a good time to buy some dollahs?

totally agree with you (even if you support Real Madrid ).

In Greece we are thinking to return back to Dr.

Moreover some people believe that our president is thinking to sell our beautifull islands to other countries in order to save the country from the bad economic situation.

 

[Gumbo]

I know he's barking, but he has a point.

YouTube - The Game is Up, The EURO is Finished! Nigel Farage Speaks Out

 

[Hawkwind]

Moving south is not the solution. Encouraging private enterprise in the North is what you do. Anything else is purely a step down the road of evacuating the North entirely.

Didn't they try that a few years back with the silicon industry up north. Also with Wales. Wales does a lot of self advertising and offering incentives such as tax breaks and cheap land for companies to set up there. Been pretty successful over the years.

 

[Chilly]

I know he's barking, but he has a point.

YouTube - The Game is Up, The EURO is Finished! Nigel Farage Speaks Out

Surprisingly compelling speech from our nutter friend. I tend to agree with a lot of what he's saying there.

 

[ECA]

I completely agree with him about the ECB rates setting ireland up for this fall.

 

[Raven]

He is also right about Portugal and Spain, both in a similar situation to Ireland where they have built far more than they can ever need or afford (amongst other things ofc)

It will take a lot for the Euro to survive over the next couple of years but they haven't really got a lot of choice, they can't just drop it. I am so glad we have stayed out, otherwise we would be in a hell of a lot worse situation than we are now. Now we just need to get out of Europe altogether!

 

[Ormorof]

thought id share this here; YouTube - The Bailout Song (The Country's Fecked) Hi Sir!

i'd agree ireland seem to be taking the fall, they are paying for the Greek bailout, while at the same time being bailed out but paying more for the loan than greece are (despite ireland actually trying to do something about it and slashing budgets)

 

[Vasconcelos]

He is also right about Portugal and Spain, both in a similar situation to Ireland where they have built far more than they can ever need or afford (amongst other things ofc)

It will take a lot for the Euro to survive over the next couple of years but they haven't really got a lot of choice, they can't just drop it. I am so glad we have stayed out, otherwise we would be in a hell of a lot worse situation than we are now. Now we just need to get out of Europe altogether!

Cant agree at all.

Farage's speech smells a bit of doomsaying, and i rly rly rly think its the obnoxious attitude from germany and france what is killing the euro project.

Come a devaluation of the euro currency, and the EU states will have some space to manouver, thus giving them time to harvest the results of their adjustement plans. Right now, assuming Krugman's words "the EU periferic nations are btwn the sword and the wall".

 

[xomer]

EU countries really have to think why the fak so many countries are in so tragic situation.

If they find the reason, maybe they will solve the problem.

 

[ECA]

Come a devaluation of the euro currency, and the EU states will have some space to manouver, thus giving them time to harvest the results of their adjustement plans. Right now, assuming Krugman's words "the EU periferic nations are btwn the sword and the wall".

The problem is the US wants to devalue, so do we, so does everyone - and all the countries that export to us don't want us to devalue and if we do they will as well to keep their balance of trade.

 

[cHodAX]

Greece is looking wobbly again, German and France want alot more reforms before the next tranche of money goes in. Was very suprised to see how exposed France is to the Greek market as well, $56 billion of public and private money for them alone. Germany is in the hole for $34 billion and neither look like getting it back for decades. If Greece defaults this shit is going to get ugly.

BBC News - Greece: Merkel and Sarkozy urge bail-out

 

[Raven]

EU countries really have to think why the fak so many countries are in so tragic situation.

If they find the reason, maybe they will solve the problem.

Bloated public services. Too much construction. Excessive consumerism.

 

[cHodAX]

Bloated public services. Too much construction. Excessive consumerism.

Can't argue with any of that, might argue about the speed of cutting it so as not to harm growth but it is plainly obvious that the public sector is taking too much out of the economy for what it gives back. Construction played it's part too but only spurred on by unethical lending and rampant consumer demand for credit which they spent as if it was free money.

 

[Bugz]

Here's a great paper on Greece's debt crisis: http://www.cardiff.ac.uk/carbs/econ/workingpapers/papers/E2010_3.pdf

It delves into some more advanced theory towards the end but the first couple of sections are basically a solid interpretation of why and how Greece went wrong.

 

[cHodAX]

Here's a great paper on Greece's debt crisis: http://www.cardiff.ac.uk/carbs/econ/workingpapers/papers/E2010_3.pdf

It delves into some more advanced theory towards the end but the first couple of sections are basically a solid interpretation of why and how Greece went wrong.

Cool, I thought it was all the bumsex but obviously there is alot more to it! Will go have a read.

 

[Embattle]

Stop funding a future collapse.

 

[cHodAX]

Stop funding a future collapse.

I fear that is what is coming, despite all the cash pumped in Greece just isn't going to bounce back anytime soon and it might actually get worse, the knockon effect for the rest of the EU is massive.