EA Origin = Spyware?

[Deebs]

My only gripe with Origins is the way it starts BF3, everything is done through a browser. Yuck.

 

[Fafnir]

Origin just as much spyware as steam...

 

[MYstIC G]

I'm sorry but you could say exactly the same about Steam. What value does Steamworks actually bring to a game? It's not done anything to improve my copy of DX:HR as far as I can tell but I was still required to install Steam because it uses Steamworks.

That's down to the developers. At least steam has some features, e.g. Steam Cloud for your saves, etc.

What the fuck useful does Origin do other than just install itself?

 

[Krazeh]

What the fuck useful does Origin do other than just install itself?

Keeps my games updated and lets me save stuff to the 'cloud' if I choose. And what exactly did Steam do of any real use when it was first released?

 

[Scouse]

Argument is shearing off into other areas. Functionality doesn't have a bearing on the fact that it's spyware - apart from making it more galling because it's unnecessarily cumbersome whilst fucking you over.

EA's business practices are worse than Valves. Their privacy policy is disgraceful. Whining "waaaaaah, Steam's shit too" doesn't win the argument.

Why not show us something that Origin does better than Steam in terms of privacy policy?

Ah.... that's right....

 

[Krazeh]

Argument is shearing off into other areas. Functionality doesn't have a bearing on the fact that it's spyware - apart from making it more galling because it's unnecessarily cumbersome whilst fucking you over.

And what are you basing this claim that it's spyware on? What exactly is it spying on?

 

[MYstIC G]

Argument is shearing off into other areas. Functionality doesn't have a bearing on the fact that it's spyware

it does if it provides no functionality

 

[Scouse]

And what are you basing this claim that it's spyware on?

Their own EULA?

 

[Krazeh]

Their own EULA?

That'd be the Origin EULA right? The one which says they don't install spyware on their customer's PCs? How are you getting that it's spyware from a statement that they don't use spyware?

 

[dysfunction]

That'd be the Origin EULA right? The one which says they don't install spyware on their customer's PCs? How are you getting that it's spyware from a statement that they don't use spyware?

Because this is Scouse who can argue for a month and a day that black is white...

 

[Scouse]

Or perhaps they're not actually spying on anyone so they figured it'd be an idea to put out a statement saying that it's not spyware.

Oh, and we should just believe them?

You've got a great piece of tec and you need as many people to use it as possible to make money. Privacy advocates are kicking up a fuss because you collect people's hardware information, gaming habits, information about what other software is installed on your PC, dates, times and a unique identifier.

You sell this information to myriad third parties for a hefty whack. There's a lot of money in it. But those damn privacy advocates eh?

So you have your top staff give a load of interviews saying there's no issue and release statements saying the same. You amend your EULA so it doesn't look quite so bad, whilst preserving exactly what you're doing.

You instruct your lawyers that you don't mind being sued and although you won't be happy you really don't mind losing - as long as any punishment doled out is less expensive than the money you're making from your little caper...

...the above is standard practice for most firms. EA is one of the bad 'uns. Period.

 

[Nate]

There's now a hack that enables you to play the game without running Origins. Designed for people who got the game legitimately but don't want to run Origins. Article about it on CVG here

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/324683/pc-battlefield-3-hackers-bypass-origin/

 

[Krazeh]

Oh, and we should just believe them?

You've got a great piece of tec and you need as many people to use it as possible to make money. Privacy advocates are kicking up a fuss because you collect people's hardware information, gaming habits, information about what other software is installed on your PC, dates, times and a unique identifier.

You sell this information to myriad third parties for a hefty whack. There's a lot of money in it. But those damn privacy advocates eh?

So you have your top staff give a load of interviews saying there's no issue and release statements saying the same. You amend your EULA so it doesn't look quite so bad, whilst preserving exactly what you're doing.

You instruct your lawyers that you don't mind being sued and although you won't be happy you really don't mind losing - as long as any punishment doled out is less expensive than the money you're making from your little caper...

...the above is standard practice for most firms. EA is one of the bad 'uns. Period.

So we shouldn't believe EA when they say they're not scanning through our PCs but we should believe you and others on the internet who say they are because 'that's what they're like'? You don't have the slightest shred of evidence to back up your repeated claim that Origin is spyware and are basing everything on hearsay and conjecture. Show me some actual evidence that Origin is scanning your PC and uploading information to EA that has no relevance whatsoever to Origin's function as an online content provider and i'm happy to listen but until then you're no different to any other conspiracy theorist.

 

[MYstIC G]

While he's working on that, how about you tell me why Battlefield requires origin. Especially since a hack has just been released to get rid of Origin.

 

[Krazeh]

While he's working on that, how about you tell me why Battlefield requires origin. Especially since a hack has just been released to get rid of Origin.

It probably doesn't require origin anymore than most of the games available through steam actually require steam. But if you're trying to launch a new online content platform then it helps to have a top title to launch it with.

 

[MYstIC G]

It probably doesn't require origin anymore than most of the games available through steam actually require steam. But if you're trying to launch a new online content platform then it helps to have a top title to launch it with.

So it's a "useless piece of shit" for EA's sake then? That must make it good for me... err, how exactly?

Not only that but it's twice the size of Steam.

 

[Krazeh]

So it's a "useless piece of shit" for EA's sake then? That must make it good for me... err, how exactly?

By that logic Steam is a 'useless piece of shit' for Valve's sake. So what makes Steam any better?

Not only that but it's twice the size of Steam.

Not on my system it isn't. And it loads quicker.

 

[Zenith.UK]

And what are you basing this claim that it's spyware on? What exactly is it spying on?

Reading a copy of the EULA itself from here...
http://eacom.s3.amazonaws.com/EULA_Origin_8.24.11.pdf

Bold is my emphasis.

2. Consent to Collection and Use of Data.
EA knows that you care how information about you is collected, used and shared, and we appreciate your trust that we will do so carefully and sensibly. Information about our customers is an important part of our business, and EA would never sell your personally identifiable information to anyone, nor would it ever use spyware or install spyware on users’ machines. We and agents acting on our behalf do not share information that personally identifies you without your consent, except in rare instances where disclosure is required by law or to enforce EA’s legal rights.

They don't share your data without your consent, but take implied consent by you downloading, installing and using the Origin software.

In addition to information that you give EA directly, EA collects nonpersonally identifiable (or anonymous) information for purposes of improving our products and services, providing services to you, facilitating the provision of software updates, dynamically served content and product support as well as communicating with you. The non-personally identifiable information that EA collects includes technical and related information that identifies your computer (including the Internet Protocol Address) and operating system, as well as information about your Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware. As noted above, this information is gathered periodically for purposes such as improving our products and services, troubleshooting bugs, and otherwise enhancing your user experience.

So they monitor far more of your computer's configuration than is necessary for effective delivery and use of their game. Notice there is no limitation on which applications they monitor. The implication is they watch and monitor EA software. The black and white text says they can watch any and all applications on your system.

Spyware doesn't tell you what it's watching. Spyware may not be the most correct term for what Origin does because they DO tell you what they're going to be watching. It's deliberately vague enough for EA to get away with far more than what they say they're going to do.

It may be legally to the letter, but it doesn't make it morally right.

 

[MYstIC G]

By that logic Steam is a 'useless piece of shit' for Valve's sake. So what makes Steam any better?

Steamworks, as previously mentioned, i.e. added functionality.

Not on my system it isn't. And it loads quicker.

Your system -v- data on Wikipedia and my own installs... hmm, no, you lost.

 

[Ctuchik]

I'm just qurious if they collect this even if Origins is not running.

If it's not then the problem is pretty minor at worst unless you have it running 24/7...

Can't say i care much either way though.

It's not like EA is gonna find out anything about us that hasn't been collected a few hundred million times already by other sites...

 

[Ctuchik]

Steamworks, as previously mentioned, i.e. added functionality.

Such as what?

What exactly does steamworks add that is so functionally necessary?

 

[MYstIC G]

Go forth and read.

 

[Krazeh]

They don't share your data without your consent, but take implied consent by you downloading, installing and using the Origin software.

They take implied consent for what? The monitoring mentioned in the EULA or for sharing data about you? If it's the former i'd argue it's explicit consent as long as you're agreeing to the EULA before installing and using Origin. If it's the latter perhaps you could point out where exactly where the EULA allows them to take implied consent to share data about you?

So they monitor far more of your computer's configuration than is necessary for effective delivery and use of their game. Notice there is no limitation on which applications they monitor. The implication is they watch and monitor EA software. The black and white text says they can watch any and all applications on your system.

So because you can interpret the section you marked in bold to mean they could watch any and all software on your computer they must be doing that? And even if you take that interpretation it's still limited by the purposes they've set out for why they collect the data rather than being a carte blanche to do what they like. It's like when you use Steam you have to agree that it may scan software and hardware processes to look for things that may constitute cheats. You also have to agree to Valve products including information about other software and hardware in any automated bug reports they create. There is no limitation given on which applications they will monitor for either of these purposes so why aren't we crying about Steam being spyware? Why is it alright for Valve to scan the software on your PC for things like troubleshooting bugs but not for EA?

Furthermore how exactly do you expect them to give specific details about what software may be looked at? How would that work for things like bug reports? You can't possibly know what could be installed on a customer's PC that could lead to a crash occuring in your software until after it's happened so it'd be impossible to give specific details in a EULA.

Spyware doesn't tell you what it's watching. Spyware may not be the most correct term for what Origin does because they DO tell you what they're going to be watching. It's deliberately vague enough for EA to get away with far more than what they say they're going to do.

It may be legally to the letter, but it doesn't make it morally right.

I suppose that all kinda rides on whether or not EA are actually doing anything more than they say they're going to do. If EA aren't doing anything other than collecting data about people's use of Origin and the software served through Origin including things like bug reports etc is that morally wrong? How would you suggest that they tighten up their EULA to allow them to still undertake those actions without being too vague?

Steamworks, as previously mentioned, i.e. added functionality.

And how long after Steam was released did Steamworks make an appearance? And do all games on Steam use Steamworks? And for those that do is it always the case that there is added functionality? For example, what does Steamworks actually add to my install of DX:HR?

Your system -v- data on Wikipedia and my own installs... hmm, no, you lost.

What is this data on Wikipedia? Not that it really matters tho because your statement still remains false as long as there's one computer on which Origin isn't twice the size of Steam. On my computer Steam takes up a larger memory footprint and takes longer to load, you may experience different but that doesn't render my experience invalid.

 

[Deebs]

Sigh. Guess what, if you don't want to smoke you don't buy ciggys as you know they come with a risk. If you want to reduce your chance of getting cancer you don't buy ciggys.

If you don't want to be spied upon when playing BF3 don't buy the game. If you are willing to accept the risk you buy it and install Origins. Simple.

Don't get me wrong I fucking hate intrusion into my life but I have so many email addresses, domain names and god knows what else out there on the interweb that my privacy has all but gone. So fucking what. I just want to play a great game and not give a shit.

Having said that, all my personal documents are on a truecrypt drive which unmounts after an idle amount of time, but that was there before Origin, Steam etc. Just a best practice thing for me. Hmm, look, porn is on my drive, happy wanking Valve, Ea, Activision, some Indie developer. Hope you enjoy it as much as I did.

 

[Ctuchik]

Go forth and read.

Calling bullshit on "With Steamworks you avoid the overhead and delay of certification requirements—there are none".

Yes it's true for games that ONLY use Steamworks.

But i have one game on Steam that also uses GFWL, and it's a pain in the ass to get that running after a fresh install because GFWL still wants a valid key (and takes fucking forever to validate it) even if Steam says it's ok to play.

 

[Raven]

That's not a steam issue though, that's a shitty GFWL issue. I doubt the people at Steam wanted that shit but they probably had no choice in the matter.

 

[Ctuchik]

Sure, but it doesn't change the fact that they are wrong with their statement.

 

[DaGaffer]

What amuses me about all this is the assumption that EA gives a flying fuck about your personal information. They don't. Even if they were scanning for that type of thing (and its fairly clear they're not), they couldn't resell or use it anyway; there isn't a legitimate market for it and their own marketing department wouldn't touch it with a barge pole (trust me, they wouldn't, certainly not in Europe where the risks of unsolicited marketing are just too damn high). Everything else they scan for like IP address, OS and processor/graphics card, they're welcome to.

My objection to Origin is simply that its a fairly horrible (and painfully slow) UI and I don't like the fact that my Origin ID had to be my player nick, because I now no longer have the nick I've been using for every BF game for the last decade.

 

[Krazeh]

My objection to Origin is simply that its a fairly horrible (and painfully slow) UI and I don't like the fact that my Origin ID had to be my player nick, because I now no longer have the nick I've been using for every BF game for the last decade.

Not had much experience with the UI, only really used it when installing BF3. Aside from that Origin has just been sat in system tray with me ignoring it. But I do agree with you about the choice to make your Origin ID your soldier name being annoying/frustrating altho i'm not sure that's necessarily something that can be blamed on Origin directly. It did become a lot less annoying for me tho once they released tools to let you change your Origin ID and I was able to swap the nick I wanted to use from an old account to my current account.

 

[MYstIC G]

What is this data on Wikipedia? Not that it really matters tho because your statement still remains false as long as there's one computer on which Origin isn't twice the size of Steam. On my computer Steam takes up a larger memory footprint and takes longer to load, you may experience different but that doesn't render my experience invalid.

You really are a lolcock. Not only does Wikipedia back up what I said, the actual download page for Origin says it's 50MB -v- Steam being 1.5MB.