Dyvet population - some questions for Requiel

[old.Whoodoo]

the population is not yet at a critical level and most people on the cluster are playing quite happily there.

With all due respect req, I dont think thats the case, and waiting until it does get to critical seems to be shutting the gate after the horse has bolted. Prevention is better than cure in this case, stop Dyvet dying and players leaving or looking elsewhere to other games. Having now tasted that greener grass, I for one can say I am happier than I have been in a long time to be playing a more active game again, those left here are mainly ones who cannot / dont want to afford the timesink into starting from scratch, so they remain and make the best of what they have, that doesnt make them "happy".

Doing "something shortterm" just means you will be shuffling the deck and testing what the results are, not getting new blood, or easing player frustrations at the 30 minutes it takes to find a decent fight in RvR, or enough people to complete an ML sensibly with enough active players. Just looking at my old realm m8s, lack of MLs, dragon raids cancelled, ML10 farm gone down the swanny when a year ago they had so many attendants. Being a sticky mod in the mid section used to be a daily job, its down to once a week now.

The secrecy behind all this is also annoying to people, if laws like the recent traffic tolls in the UK were just passed we would go ballistic, but the govmt to a degree keep the public informed of their plans, at least to stop the scare mongering or to genuinely keep the people informed, they dont just say "were working on some way of shafting you tax wise like you chavs!" then impliment laws...

Lots of posts here too have lately been about communication with the players, and as you might tell, most are not impressed. Saying "we are working on it" just isnt enough to reassure us that you are not just sitting in your dank dark office shuffling the pizza boxes once a day to find your keyboard to type in the immortal words to a reply on Rightnever - "working as nintendo".

 

[Kami]

I agree with Whoodoo here, get some new blood into the game and boost the population by any means possible. Old players like myself are leaving because they don't see the point in investing time in a game that on the surface seems to have a very limited lifespan now. I'm not by any means shouting DOOM! but details on the plans might well save some subscribers from cancelling or moving to the US or other games.

DAOC is still a fantastic game and frankly piddles over WoW but people aren't hearing about that, don't say that GOA/Mythic are doing enough we all know you're not. Market the damn thing for a change and I mean SHOVE THE GAME down peoples throats, that's what they did with WoW.

 

[Darzil]

I'm not by any means shouting DOOM! but details on the plans might well save some subscribers from cancelling or moving to the US or other games.

Or make other players leave. If I hear the future plan is the same as it was for Glasto (make it German), you'll not see me for dust, and I'd probably try to get my money back on LotM, or wish I could. I don't think I'd be the only one. Nothing against German, or Germans, just that I enjoying playing Camelot more than language courses.

Darzil

 

[old.Whoodoo]

Or make other players leave. If I hear the future plan is the same as it was for Glasto (make it German), you'll not see me for dust, and I'd probably try to get my money back on LotM, or wish I could. I don't think I'd be the only one. Nothing against German, or Germans, just that I enjoying playing Camelot more than language courses.

Darzil

Reminds me of the ranting everyone did on the classic EN server, when all you saw in bled/crua/beno was the spam of french people saying something in a lanuage you couldnt understand. They were in the same realm tho...

 

[IainC]

Keeping a viable English language regular ruleset server is one of our top priorities. Any solution that removes that choice will not be one we would be happy to implement. I've said it before and at the risk of sounding like a broken record I'll say it again, we are actively working towards a long term, sustainable solution for Dyvet. There are short term plans in the works which you'll hear about soon aimed at getting former players to resubscribe and a strong marketing push off the back of LotM. Once we've finished our current round of discussions and feasibility studies we'll be much closer to implementing a proper solution to help the English playerbase. Unfortunately I can't give you any kind of ETA for that part as there are multiple parties involved.

 

[Nate]

That's a little better(doesn't really say much), but don't put that cloak back on.

 

[Poon]

I think clustering more servers in is the only option really, you are not going to get many new players into this game, to be fair its old it looks and sounds like ass and the pve is about on a par with eq1, what this game has going for it is a great pvp system.

The realm war pvp system is still better then any other game has to offer and i've been on nearly every MMO since to find something near it, yes theres alot of changes i didnt like (TOA NF insta porting etc) and balence still blows but even with all these things the pvp is unsurpassed if the numbers are there and these numbers will have to come from the existing player base, forgot getting new players you wont get them in any amounts that you will notice, get old players back and get what there is to be able to play together.

I play on Avalon with some old DAOC friend's, its not ideal as its all in German but the numbers are there and the rvr is not a zerg fest like the US, also there are alot of English speaking players on there who moved to get good RVR so maybe if a char transfer service is setup and dyvet numbers are sorted then you will get another boost.

Also big up to the old skool

 

[Esselinithia]

Poon: I am not sure about it. If they give out 2 weeks trial for LOTM for people with existing but closed account, I think many people who left the game would react, and would see: Things changed, and now GOA is trying to fix problems. Also since many people would return, they would see an active cluster with many other people looking for groups, some more fights and some more reasons to come back. Does a such plan involve clustering? But if GOA would announce any such tactics now, some would cancel their sub to get 2 weeks free... It is just one example, that works without clustering and cannot be explained before it is announced, and works as a strong short term solution.

 

[Castus]

Quite strange really but since i started playing doac from a pure login go rvr pov with zero pve i`ve really enjoyed the game again.I actually enjoy the server now all the leet cru and whiner boys have gone Avalon/USA.Those people just took the game WAY to serious for my liking.The games at a nice pick up and play stage for me .Leave it alone so they stay away please!

 

[Kami]

Poon: I am not sure about it. If they give out 2 weeks trial for LOTM for people with existing but closed account, I think many people who left the game would react, and would see: Things changed, and now GOA is trying to fix problems. Also since many people would return, they would see an active cluster with many other people looking for groups, some more fights and some more reasons to come back. Does a such plan involve clustering? But if GOA would announce any such tactics now, some would cancel their sub to get 2 weeks free... It is just one example, that works without clustering and cannot be explained before it is announced, and works as a strong short term solution.

But LOTM doesn't bring much to the game except dilute classes even more with bugged new items and add in an amazingly lame/buggy map to go die in.

 

[gervaise]

If the US servers are anything to go by then giving people a 2 week trial of LotM is not what you would want to do.

So what options do GoA have?

Well as there is less and less money coming in - and advertising was to expensive 12 months ago - then I suppose they could say to EA do something or else we drop it. This is exactly what happened in Japan and the result was that people got the option to join the US servers. Probably not that big a loss either given that WH is coming up.

Another option would be for EA to finance a campaign but this doesn't sound right to me. No profit to EA etc.

This solution would help the US servers as well.

 

[Andrilyn]

I think clustering more servers in is the only option really

Which causes more problems than you actually would think.
Let's say GOA can create a multi-language cluster, well the RvR section atleast.
This means they need to search for a good server/cluster that you can cluster Dyvet with, this will be a somewhat lower pop server/cluster so that means a French server/cluster seeing as they are the lowest pop after the UK.
You can argue about that alot of English people don't speak or understand French and that some/alot (don't know if they give as many English classes in France than they do here in Holland and Germany) of French people don't speak or understand English and if that actual matters I mean you can see it as 'extra meat' to kill not to group with etc.

But it will cause major problems in order of playing styles.
From what I've seen of French people (Camlann and Classic) is they seem to play a completely different game than the UK people, they don't mind running 3-5fg on /stick and completely clean out a zone killing solo'ers, small groups, full groups and all they can get their hands on.
This is a valid playing style as it's not against the rules but it would drive quite some people away especially from the UK part of the server/cluster just look at when the classic servers got clustered, sure some cba because the server language got changed to French but alot of people also left because they cba with the French playing style.

So basically I mean with clustering with another server you will probably drive more people away (less money for GOA so they will not like it) and sure it will give a boost the first few weeks or even months because it's new and people will want to try it atleast but I think in the end it will just turn out to be a French server (or whatever server they decide to cluster with) because their pop will decide the way of playing in the end as they got the numbers to dictate it simple as that.

 

[psyco]

this is so pointless...

 

[Poon]

Well you dont have many options other then expanding your cluster, this game is one of the worst for new players, near all xp is done by bot because its faster then normal xp'ing, if you want new players then remove /lvl and make pl unworkable and this will generate leveling groups this will also have the effect of driving your existing users away as they have come to rely on the current system.

Other things that will ensure new players will be slim are due to;
Too many classes with a narrow range of abilitys make pve generally dull
Direction while lvling is poor
NPC text is while very "roleplay" very long winded and cryptic
8 man grp size can be depressing when administrating groups
Textures may have been redone but the engine "feels" old and clunky
The games very mature in its life and this can make a new start daunting

If you want a flood of new players the above needs to be addressed and lvling needs to be made a painless process and people need to be made aware of these changes, i belive at this stage of the game this is not possible.

What is possible is to make the best of what you have, by multi lang clients or char copys or clusters.

Some of you may take this post as a bash on DAOC but it isnt, i've berated this game in the past and theres alot it does wrong but in the way of mmo pvp DAOC is king and it always has been and i would love to play on an English server again but from what i've seen it would be a waste of my time, theres no FG left, Hib and Mid are dead and from what i can make out Alb has got a couple of good peeps left but its mainly AC'ing and zerging shitebags.

Offer every closed account 14 days free and i couldnt see many on the Eng cluster logging in more then 3-4 times for them to come on see that most of their friends play on a different server and theres no RVR left.

Yes this threads mostly pointless but i still find reading peoples view's interesting

 

[Flimgoblin]

this is so pointless...

so true, psyco has retired - everyone else! quit the server now!

 

[Esselinithia]

Andrilyn: I think the playing style on English servers are dictated by some "selection" of players, people who can endure the community had a chance to stay, and people who can't: left the server first.

There are lots of people who like realm level community, and "war" in RVR with armies and not only FG battles. The question is: Would these people come back to a mixed language cluster? Or would the current "leet" teams from dyvet scare away the french people too?

 

[Sollac]

Andrilyn: I think the playing style on English servers are dictated by some "selection" of players, people who can endure the community had a chance to stay, and people who can't: left the server first.

There are lots of people who like realm level community, and "war" in RVR with armies and not only FG battles. The question is: Would these people come back to a mixed language cluster? Or would the current "leet" teams from dyvet scare away the french people too?

thing is.. the leet teams as you put it have left the cluster.

We who are left are enjoying the "BATTLES" and not "SKIRMISHES", its quiet at the moment but there is still alot of activity in RVR as well as PVE.

The ALB's dont AC raid any more, has been no need too as Mids have all but disappeared "AGAIN" because they cant fight without the relics....

HIBs are still aboutr, they have a few more assitions from MId ( Brad for 1), but overall although ALBs have more relics and more numbers, in open rvr we still get our arses handed to us.

I think Alb has more Pug style play where MIS and HIB have smaller byt more organised play...

In the end its still fun...:england:

 

[Sollac]

Andrilyn: I think the playing style on English servers are dictated by some "selection" of players, people who can endure the community had a chance to stay, and people who can't: left the server first.

There are lots of people who like realm level community, and "war" in RVR with armies and not only FG battles. The question is: Would these people come back to a mixed language cluster? Or would the current "leet" teams from dyvet scare away the french people too?

For myself, Im just here to enjoy whatever comes along......
I group with people I know and we have fun, whether we die or not.....

People have got far too serious about in game death, at least you dont have to run as a ghost to get ya corpse back

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

So we have to hope for some new players joining now and we have to hope for their stupidity that would lead them to play on Dyvet instead of Avalon/Lyonesse with triple population. That is a bit naive, sorry...

Long term plans are being checked, by the time they are decided upon the damage to Dyvet will be so big that they will not change anything. People will only laugh in "GoA's face"...

Having some negative thoughts atm about DAoC, my CC is loaded but I am not going to buy any European LoTM copy (bought two US ones) and most likely not resubscribe my accounts until I know in what direction Dyvet is heading.

Sad.

 

[Pirkel]

Mr. Sellaccountbutthentrytobuyitbackandthenreroll200timesondifferentservers has spoken... That's it ... He might not buy lotm, daoc is over now

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Mr. Sellaccountbutthentrytobuyitbackandthenreroll200timesondifferentservers has spoken... That's it ... He might not buy lotm, daoc is over now

Thank you for giving me your valueable input.

idiotToFlame++;

 

[Esselinithia]

Why would someone choose dyvet instead of any foreign language cluster? The fact, they don't know the game yet. If they try to learn things, they need an english client, english text from NPCs, a community where most players can speak english, support in english, etc. unless they speak german / french too. For new players dyvet is better choice compared to avalon for this reason.

Try to buy any new RPG game in a language you don't understand and try to play it, and tell me how it works for you. Or better: if there is a demo, download it. Without any knowledge of the game, and without support you will have problems even with the tutorial. Looking for help on Avalon, etc. in english when you know noone is just as hard for someone who is new to the game and stuck at level 8.

Think about it, before you post. Also this is one of the main reason against clustering dyvet with ANY foreign language server/cluster. (Don't know if GOA has to run english language servers or not)

Anything related to Mythic servers: Clustering dyvet with any Mythic server is probably impossible for both technical and legal reasons. Why they can't just move dyvet to mYthic platform and make clustering possible this way? Because people can be active on multple servers, and not all servers would be transfered. Splitting accounts would be hard, and even harder if players would have to pay 2 subs as result.

Yes, GOA needs a long term solution. Yes, it takes time to implement it. Yes, it takes time to make good plans, and decide how to implement them. And yes, if GOA would react to the problems earlier, we would have some solution by now, and probably more players would be on dyvet (both because a working solution, and because they would see GOA react in time when players see a problem).

Also: It takes MUCH more effort to fix the problems now, than it would taken 1 years ago. You cancel your account? Fine. But what do you think, how many other people did the same? Your account (When you sold it, rolled alts on many places, etc) and presence be more important on dyvet than the presence of countless good players who left before?

 

[cmr]

I would like a response on why mid didnt get underpopulated realm bonuses this last patch tbh.

Seems no reason to me why not

 

[Cemeterygates]

Kiliarien: Like most good MMORPGs, DAoC is built with a communities in mind, there are several levels of community we can speak about:

Group
Guild
Alliance
Realm
Server
Playerbase

In the beginging the game worked well, not because you seen massive amount of ads, but for other reasons. Since that we see more daoc vids on video sharing portals, we can inivte people (and they don't have to buy the game), DAOC got better ratings, the whole MMORPG "scene" gets more attention and more people are looking for games, etc. We can blame lack of advertisement for the initial population, but we can't blame it for how people is leaving.

Word of Mouth advertisement and "viral marketing" are effective, and can be both done by playerbase. and we can speak about fansites, fan art, fan fiction to attract people, yet I think the problems stand at a lower level. The game can't keep most of the people and can't motivate players to invite their friends and promote the game.

People don't help newbies, they don't help players who need something etc. we have a lot of greed in the game, and noone cares for the future, but everyone is goes after his own interest. Lots of people care more about the RP they can make in a week, than about the future of the game, and want outside forces to make people play the game, for their own fg fights and their own RP.

They want to see more groups, but they say: If we don't help new people to catch up and dominate the fights with RAs, experience, gear that is fair, if they join the fight (add) that is bad, so the new people see they have no chance to be equals. Why would they stay? Why would they invite? And if the same FG people don't care about new players, they just want the "Numbers" not the people, and don't invite, don't try to recruit, what can you say?

What can you say, when you see set fgs all the time, and not a community, where the high RR people pick up some low RR people to help him to catch up with RAs, etc, and have more good groups in RvR? The low RR people won't have much fun without such set groups, and people will leave.

The level of service provided by GOA matches this standard, with all the problems it means. In most cases the lowest score for DAOC is with service and in most such tests they say, it is much worse in EU and somewhat betterer in US for more specific informtation. But if the community is makes the game dead anyway there is no need for better service here.

Edit: Added the following:

Both playerbase, server and realm level community is mostly missing, people don't act as a community anymore on these levels, while in the begining it was different. Lots of strong guilds and alliances are closed to the new players, and they can't get much help from groups either. DAOC has strong tools to make community working for common goals, RVR, Guild houses, alliances, merit points, etc. to encourage and enforce community since without the community all MMORPGs die. Yet, the community ignores these tools, and kills the game.

i think you have pretty much hit the nail square on the head there tbh mate.
i was a devoted hib/excal dude for like...over 3 years and i would say the community was far better say about 2 years ago...less greed/i'm better than you sort of mentality.....really is quite said what has happened to excal

 

[Punishment]

It is being addressed, there are some things in the works that will help short term which will be announced when they are ready (within a couple of weeks) and we are actively working towards a long term solution. In the meantime I don't think it's particularly helpful for us to contribute to the perception that the cluster is dying, the population is not yet at a critical level and most people on the cluster are playing quite happily there. Most of the people concerned about population issues are the ones on FH and these people are able to read my posts here saying that we are working on it.

The pop was at a critical level 3 months ago ...

I dont like whine threads more than anyone else , but when all my friends leave the cluster because there is nothing to kill in fg v fg rvr , why should i stay

Even as a stealther now you can go 15 minutes without finding a fight ... it really has gone beyond ridiculous

 

[Punishment]

Keeping a viable English language regular ruleset server is one of our top priorities. Any solution that removes that choice will not be one we would be happy to implement. I've said it before and at the risk of sounding like a broken record I'll say it again, we are actively working towards a long term, sustainable solution for Dyvet. There are short term plans in the works which you'll hear about soon aimed at getting former players to resubscribe and a strong marketing push off the back of LotM. Once we've finished our current round of discussions and feasibility studies we'll be much closer to implementing a proper solution to help the English playerbase. Unfortunately I can't give you any kind of ETA for that part as there are multiple parties involved.

Sounds good sofar ...

1.88 would be the ideal time to bring in new players tbh , it will open up the game to new people and once again the whole Shrouded Isles scenario will come to the fore ...

Get 50 ---> RvR No bullshit in between

But please do something to attract new players ... as i bought a w0w acc+expansion for 70e today and it is bloody pants ... that aside i have like 5 weeks left on subs , and if the (short term solution) doesnt bring change ill just go play skittles or something

 

[Levin]

I think the playing style on English servers are dictated by some "selection" of players, people who can endure the community had a chance to stay, and people who can't: left the server first.

There are lots of people who like realm level community, and "war" in RVR with armies and not only FG battles. The question is: Would these people come back to a mixed language cluster? Or would the current "leet" teams from dyvet scare away the french people too?

I couldn't agree more. The FG type of RvR where the best banded together and steamrolled everyone else, rather than helping them out - made a LOT of people realize they'd stand no chance out there. In the end the differences became so big that any attempts for casual RvR players always ended the same way; in frustration at the bind stones. Why would these frustrated players want to come back, ever?

In the early days there was a lot more cooperation on, as Esselinithia says, a higher level of communities such as alliances and whole realms. This then boiled away and now all that seems to be left (i'm only guessing as I left a year ago myself) are small bands of ventrilo-speaking teams that roam NF for the last few crumbs. Once again, how would this environment be tempting for a new player? The casual rvr players of us who already left, know what would happen. We'd get steamrolled once again and end up cursing at the bind points. Over and over and over.

The most fun I had in DaoC was keep sieges and big mass battles. When it somehow became "bad" to try and take keeps because it would ruin the "instant rvr" - I knew this was no longer the game for me.

 

[Esselinithia]

The most fun I had in DaoC was keep sieges and big mass battles. When it somehow became "bad" to try and take keeps because it would ruin the "instant rvr" - I knew this was no longer the game for me.

From what you say, I see a good question:

If servers where the elitist fg vs fg dominates the rvr scene (classic or otherwise) die fast. We see several examples.

Servers where other people work as a community survive, in US and on french servers, etc.

Why some patches help the fg people to stay?

 

[hemorragie]

Give us the ability to move accounts from Dyvet to other EU clusters...

 

[Himse]

Give us the ability to move accounts from Dyvet to other EU clusters...

QFT.

Or, you could just put the text client side and not be lazy.