Driving, fixed penalty - pay or not?

[tris-]

If you go to court you can get more than 3 points added
and it will probably cost you more if you lose

hes right there. i was in court to listen to a case the other week. woman parked in a zebra crossing zone but claimed she couldnt see the markings because the road was coverd in rain. she was offerd 60 quid and 3 points.

court ruled she should of known regardless. in the end she got 3 points, 100 quid fine and 400-500 court costs.

depends if you wanna play the gamble.

 

[Bodhi]

Lot of people chatting a lot of breeze on this thread. The idea that you can set an arbritary speed limit on most roads is laughable - I've been on the M6 when a safe cruising speed would have been about 130mph, and other times when 30mph would be about 20 too much, yet no matter what the conditions or the time, we're supposed to stick to the limit of 70. Absolute horseshit. I've done 140mph on a straight stretch of the M5 before, wasn't especially dangerous. The road was straight and dry, the car seemed perfectly comfortable with what I was asking it to do and I had the outside 2 lanes to myself. I could see any danger from about a mile away, so avoiding it wouldn't have been a stress or anything. So you can't say speeding = teh bad, cos it just doesn't. I've had two accidents in my life, was doing the speed limit or less at the time of both. So bollocks to it being safer to drive at the limit.

Oh and about the NIP, all you want to do is take ages to do anything - ignore the time limits on doing things, they're flexible in local government. Sit on the NIP til you get a final reminder, then send it off. Fart around with the Fixed penalty offer, by the time they get their arses in gear it'll be too late to prosecute.

 

[Calaen]

Im not saying speed cameras are the answer, my point is if the speed limit is left to the judgement of the driver you will have muppets like Tom driving at 100mph on a 40 road cause he knows its safe to do so.

If the limit was 100 on the road he would do fucking more just because he could. There isnt a perfect answer but a sensible safe compromise is best. Not what Tom thinks.

I have been in 4 accidents as a passenger, 2 of them were driver error the other 2 were morons speeding and tailgating going into the back of us on the fast lane of the M6.

You go 90 mph the guy behind you wants to go 100mph go figure.... too many stupid people around.

 

[tris-]

If the limit was 100 on the road he would do fucking more just because he could. There isnt a perfect answer but a sensible safe compromise is best. Not what Tom thinks.

so would i. ive actually been practicing with my TVR on PGR3 sliding around corners at 120mph, its doable. coming 3rd in one of the tables prooved that.

its skills like that you can transfer to real life situations.

 

[ECA]

In my county, Lancashire, we have the highest number of speed cameras in any county, yet our accident rate is at a five year high and over that period has almost doubled, coincidentally the accident rate started rising above statistical norms when speed cameras were introduced.

Our eyes should be on the road, and it would be a lot safer doing 40 then having to watch the needle on a dial half the fucking time, or people slamming their brakes on as they approach cameras/guns.

I also agree that arbitrary speed limits are retarded.
Like most I've driven on the motorway at about 20mph when visibility has been zero, and I've driven down it in the middle of the night with not another soul to be seen when it would have been safe doing 90+.

The problem isnt drivers like myself/tom/etc who drive faster than the legal limit when we feel its safe to do so ( I obviously drive 30 90% of the time living in an urban area - and never go over it during the day ) but the law is not there to protect people from responsible drivers it there to protect from the racers who drive with disregard to others safety - the ones who speed on housing estates and about town and do 120+ in a 30 or 40 limit and do it at unsafe times in unsafe conditions.

But heres the problem, drivers like that dont give a shit about driving responsibly and driving at speeds they are safe at they do it anyway, so who eats the shit?

Correct, the safe drivers.

Then we have those who shouldnt have a driving license anyway, those who are not safe to drive at 30 anyway.

For example, the area I live in has a lot of families+kids often playing in the streets during summer, I drive down the side streets at 15mph because I dont want to hit one - yet I see the parents of these kids driving around at 30-40 regularly and wonder when someone is going to get killed.


Imo the way to go is much tougher testing, driving tests should be an hour long, with another hour long test on a motorway before you're allowed to drive on one, with another hour test on a skidpad to make sure you can handle the car in an accident situation.

Instead we have a laughable common sense theory paper, a hazard awareness test "oh we're going past a bus, maybe we should slow down in case some tard walks out" that a three year old could pass and a 30 minute test you can take as often as you like.

Secondly public transport is shit and needs billions investing, but thats another issue isnt it.

 

[Skyler]

I pretty much agree with Tom/Bodhi/DaGaffer here.

For you Calaen to suggest that having no speed limits means Tom will drive around at 100mph in old 40mph zones is quite stupid. You are suggesting it will be a regular occurence and lead people to believe it will be with other users on the road at the time by being vague. I don't care if Tom drives 100mph on the road he described with no one else on it.

Tom is bang on when it comes to observation > speed for safety. I would rather be on a road with a clear cut NSL than a road with tricky 30-40 speed limit changes and cameras or vans out to catch you. The first road you are free to focus on the road and pick a speed that works for the stretch of road and conditions you are driving in. The second you are having to deal with switches between 30 and 40mph limits, worrying about speed cameras, focusing on the speedo a whole lot more and trying to analyse every bush to see if there's a stupid van trying to catch you out.

Any idiot can plainly see the safer option of those two, how is it so many people can't?

There is so much of a case against Speed Cameras I honestly find it hard to believe they are on a sharp increase rather than in decline. The cameras are getting more and more sneaky, there are more and more mobile cameras around and that is genuinely worrying.

When I am a passenger in a car it's so easy to see the constant distraction and stress that cameras - especially vans and hidden ones, put on drivers who barely stray over any speed limit.

The road Tom went 100mph on should be NSL rather than 40, there are thousands of roads that are going down and down in speed when NSL is just as safe if not safer.

I'm fed up with seeing vans all over roads with 40 - 30mph switches in speed limit, on a straight piece of road! The camera sits right on the bloody 30 sign and catches people as they slow down. This happens all over the country and is totally unacceptable imo. I've seen drivers spotting the vans (if they are lucky) and braking hard to slow to 30mph to avoid being done for speeding. This practice is promoted by the way the vans are utilised and is far more unsafe than letting drivers smoothly slow to 30 when they are told.

Motorways should be at least 90, perhaps 100 in the fast lane. Is there a single valid reason why they shouldn't be? True, if someone has a blowout or something at 100mph it's gonna be a very bad accident, but the same is true for 70mph.. Perhaps we should lower it to 30mph, just incase a child runs into the motorway! I mean you never know.. it could happen!

I suggest asking for the photo that implicates your guilt before doing anything else. I know several people who have done this and the case was dropped immediately due to the photo being poor. Probably best to take the advice of the numerous Scamera sites on the net and figure out your best approach.

 

[Alan]

How can anyone agree that driving at 100mph is perfectly safe.... it inst.

Sure NSL on the motorway should be 90 imo
Yup observation is key
Speed cameras are a pain in the ass and should be blown up

 

[ECA]

How can anyone agree that driving at 100mph is perfectly safe.... it inst.

Sure NSL on the motorway should be 90 imo
Yup observation is key
Speed cameras are a pain in the ass and should be blown up

Way to respond in a coherent intelligent manner,
of course OBEY TEH LAWZLOL
and OMGLOLSPEEDING? WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WHEN YOU KILL SOMEONE!!!

Why are you a mod when you show such a lack of common sense and intellect I will never know. Probably an asskisser with too much time who plays some midget in an online mmo.

 

[nath]

If you can't accept that 100mph could be in *any* way safe, then you're either a) not a very good driver b) not a very experienced driver or c) a total sheep.

Sounds like the road Tom explained was perfectly safe for him to drive down at that speed - just because the government says 70mph max pls thx!! doesn't automatically make that the only safe speed. Plus, no one is saying that's always a safe speed. Speed limits shouldn't necessarily be abolished - speed cameras should. They're fucking useless.

 

[Escape]

I was overtaking someone on the motorway(at night), when another car came up real close behind me, putting on the pressure for me to go faster. But I kept my speed to complete the maneuver. Only when he passed me I realised it was a police car, assholes must have been short on their quota for fines.

 

[Tom]

Im not saying speed cameras are the answer, my point is if the speed limit is left to the judgement of the driver you will have muppets like Tom driving at 100mph on a 40 road cause he knows its safe to do so.

Sorry, whats a 40 road? Is it some kind of magical dimension where the laws of physics cease to work?

 

[Calaen]

Way to respond in a coherent intelligent manner,
of course OBEY TEH LAWZLOL
and OMGLOLSPEEDING? WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WHEN YOU KILL SOMEONE!!!

Why are you a mod when you show such a lack of common sense and intellect I will never know. Probably an asskisser with too much time who plays some midget in an online mmo.

Funny for someone that is obviously so intelligent you know all the so called l33t teen speak. Were you not given enough attention at school?
Everyone hug ECA. I suggest you go to the bathroom, your brain is getting its signals crossed between a sensible response and needing a shit.

It makes me laugh You complaining about having to watch the speed your driving and not being able to watch the road aswell fucking gimps.

If you are unable to check your speed and stay in control of the car you should just stop driving. Its the same old bollocks from the we love to speed brigade.

can you actually accidents on cameras? I am sure though you can post a website with real life facts collected by some 45 year old with semen stained clarkson posters on his wall.

*awaits toms link post*

 

[Calaen]

Sorry, whats a 40 road? Is it some kind of magical dimension where the laws of physics cease to work?

Its a road where people with more FUCKING intelligence than you have decided is safer, if people adhere to a speed limit.

 

[Tom]

How can anyone agree that driving at 100mph is perfectly safe.... it inst.

It took me about 13 seconds to get to that speed from zero mph, from the lights at the top of the road. The perfectly straight, perfect visibiltiy, no pedestrians, no junctions, no other traffic, no hedgerows for children to suicidally run into the road, no hedgehogs crossing, no less spotted newt nesting road.

Arrow straight road. Nothing else around for miles. Middle of the night.

100mph sounds scary doesn't it? Its less scary than the idiots I see driving up my street at 20mph.

 

[Tom]

Its a road where people with more FUCKING intelligence than you have decided is safer, if people adhere to a speed limit.

rofl. Intelligence? You know nothing about road safety mate, nothing at all. Go ahead and rely on numbers on sticks if you like, me personally I'll use my brain and my eyes.

Oh another thing, presuming you can drive, have you actually done anything about improving your driver skills since you passed the test? Have you made an effort to be a safer driver in any way other than sticking to your precious speed limits?

 

[ECA]

Its a road where people with more FUCKING intelligence than you have decided is safer, if people adhere to a speed limit.

Right, and the speed limit was decided by some council jobsworth who I'm sure picked road safety management as an exciting career choice and not because they got out of uni with a bumfuck degree in curry making and took whatever job they could get?

 

[Skyler]

To be honest I find driving down residential roads the hardest part of driving and the part where I find the most potential for accidents.

Cars lining the side of the road, no room for two way traffic, ducking in and out inbetween parked cars as you edge your way up, or going down at 20-30mph inbetween parked cars, anybody could jump out from anywhere, poor drivers can come out of poorly visible side turnings.. they are probably where most pedestrian based accidents occur.

Don't see a single speed camera on them though do you.

 

[Tom]

No you won't Skyler, same as Schools - because they're a recognised distraction and will make the road less safe as a result.

Thats why they're always perched on bridges over the A1. Nice clear stretches of road to go at whatever speed is safe at the time, only don't dare go near 70mph or over as you'll be a child killer!

 

[Trem]

I'm with Tom all the way on this.....even though he is a homo

 

[Tom]

Buttlicker.

 

[Calaen]

Im sorry but again it all sounds omg i broke the law but I dont want to be held responsible. I suggest you all grow the fuck up.

Tom I hav not caused any accident by driving nor do I intend to. I will however carry on as I do driving within the limits that are set. I dooubt any course you have been on has made you wiser because Arrogance is something that can only be removed with a kick up the arse. I really look forward to your I crashed my car into a wall post, no doubt it will be someone elses fault.

 

[Calaen]

Right, and the speed limit was decided by some council jobsworth who I'm sure picked road safety management as an exciting career choice and not because they got out of uni with a bumfuck degree in curry making and took whatever job they could get?

You prove they have a degree in curry making and ill agree with you. Until then please carry on in your sub standard life.

 

[Tom]

Im sorry but again it all sounds omg i broke the law but I dont want to be held responsible. I suggest you all grow the fuck up.

Tom I hav not caused any accident by driving nor do I intend to. I will however carry on as I do driving within the limits that are set. I dooubt any course you have been on has made you wiser because Arrogance is something that can only be removed with a kick up the arse. I really look forward to your I crashed my car into a wall post, no doubt it will be someone elses fault.

How is it arrogant to recognise that my skills as a driver can be improved, and to pay good money to improve them, including sitting a test with a police driving instructor? And passing that test?

How is it arrogant to drive carefully in built up areas, being tailgated by other motorists who won't break the speed limit, but don't actually pay any attention to whats going on around them? The same drivers who don't like me overtaking them when they're doing 45mph on a NSL road where 60mph or above is safe? You know, the ones that flash their headlights and honk their horn with the old coffee beans - is that you Calaen?

How is it arrogant to despise speed cameras, and to call for their elimination by any means so that they can be replaced by proper Traffic Police?

Take your fingers out of your ears and stop singing. Nothing I have said or done is arrogant. All you've done is demonstrate your inability to see the real issues.

 

[leggy]

I agree with the speed camera hatred to a degree. What I will say though is this:

It is irrelevant whether or not you think it is safe to drive at 100mph Tom. It is also irrelevant if you are correct. What we can't have is a position where every clown with a driving license 'thinks' they are good drivers and that it is acceptable to judge for themselves at what speed they should drive.

I am not sitting in a sheep pen here believing that the speed limit set for a particular road is the safest speed to drive at. I also don't put much stock in Government statistics.

I speed to a degree so I won't be a hipocrite and tell you that it is wrong. Judgment and common sense is what road safety is all about. But the law is there for a reason. A good majority of drivers have neither.

Do you honestly think more traffic police is the answer? Stop handing out driving licenses willy nilly to be perfectly honest. Make testing harsher and make people think about what they are doing on the road.

 

[ECA]

You prove they have a degree in curry making and ill agree with you. Until then please carry on in your sub standard life.

Ooooh get you, I make two comments obvious with Satire in mind and you take them both seriously.

Did you dribble semen when foxhunting was banned as well?

 

[Calaen]

How is it arrogant to drive carefully in built up areas, being tailgated by other motorists who won't break the speed limit, but don't actually pay any attention to whats going on around them? The same drivers who don't like me overtaking them when they're doing 45mph on a NSL road where 60mph or above is safe? You know, the ones that flash their headlights and honk their horn with the old coffee beans - is that you Calaen?

No mate I am the guy that could stamp on your face for eternity and never get bored. Must be someone else with the horn and the coffee beans..

 

[Calaen]

Ooooh get you, I make two comments obvious with Satire in mind and you take them both seriously.

Did you dribble semen when foxhunting was banned as well?

Nah I thought it was amusing. I only ejaculate when females are involved, next time you in Newcastle I could get you a hooker they have no taste so you could actually get some.

 

[Calaen]

I agree with the speed camera hatred to a degree. What I will say though is this:

It is irrelevant whether or not you think it is safe to drive at 100mph Tom. It is also irrelevant if you are correct. What we can't have is a position where every clown with a driving license 'thinks' they are good drivers and that it is acceptable to judge for themselves at what speed they should drive.

I am not sitting in a sheep pen here believing that the speed limit set for a particular road is the safest speed to drive at. I also don't put much stock in Government statistics.

I speed to a degree so I won't be a hipocrite and tell you that it is wrong. Judgment and common sense is what road safety is all about. But the law is there for a reason. A good majority of drivers have neither.

Do you honestly think more traffic police is the answer? Stop handing out driving licenses willy nilly to be perfectly honest. Make testing harsher and make people think about what they are doing on the road.

Yay someone with an element of common sense.

 

[ECA]

No thanks, I'd rather avoid that shithole and not become a sad bitter individual like yourself

 

[Calaen]

No thanks, I'd rather avoid that shithole and not become a sad bitter individual like yourself

I am the happiest person you would ever expect to meet, nothing bitter about me. Although I do confess to being an individual.