Driving, fixed penalty - pay or not?

[Maljonic]

So I've got a letter saying I was speeding, 41 in a 30, through Cambridge and they're offering me a quick pay fixed penalty of £60 and 3 points on my licence - instead of letting go through the court. Is this a bit excessive, the points I mean, or should I just pay up and have done with it?

 

[dysfunction]

Thats standard penalty I'm afraid.

You could always go to court and fight your way out of it...or pay up and accept the 3 points.

 

[Moriath]

If you go to court you can get more than 3 points added
and it will probably cost you more if you lose

 

[Wij]

3 points won't affect your insurance. Pay up imo.

 

[Tom]

No, you should go here www.pepipoo.com, follow the instructions in the NIP wizard, read the forums, and tell the scamera partnership to go fuck itself.

The entire NoiP and S172 process is currently awaiting judgement by the European court of Human Rights, where its expected to be declared illegal.

 

[Calaen]

He was doing 41mph in a 30mph zone pay the fucking fine. Jesus you are such fucking morons sometimes. I am sick of typing this shit out, If you break the speed limits you are aware of the come backs. You are no different to scum bags that commit other crimes and get off with it due to some fucking loop hole..

 

[Tom]

Actually no. The registered keeper of a vehicle bearing the registration which is currently on Maljonic's car has been asked to provide details of who was driving at the time of the alleged offence.

1) Maljonic now has to prove his innocence, rather than the police proving his guilt - a clear violation of human rights law.

2) These camera devices have been demostrated time and again to be woefully inaccurate

3) 41mph in a 30mph zone means fuck all.

4) They are attempting to prosecute him on a technicality, using the law. Well Maljonic is perfectly entitled to use the law to defend himself - and currently, there are perfectly legal methods of doing this.


Stop being such a weapons grade bellend. Theres a 40mph road down me that I've done 100mph down, and it was perfectly safe. A number on a stick means fuck all.

 

[Alan]

Theres a 40mph road down me that I've done 100mph down, and it was perfectly safe. A number on a stick means fuck all.

Until someone dies !

Pay the fine and learn the lesson imo.

I had a £40 and 3 point from a camera 5 years ago, the points are now off my licence and i haven't been caught since.

 

[Frizz]

100mph down a 40? With all due respect Tom, who are you to say it was "perfectly safe"?

 

[Calaen]

Stop being such a weapons grade bellend. Theres a 40mph road down me that I've done 100mph down, and it was perfectly safe. A number on a stick means fuck all.

With all respect intended mate you can fuck right off. This comment shows everyone that probably already thinks you are a cock they are right.

You have no fucking respect for other people when you drive. I feel sorry for you I really do.

 

[Tom]

None of you could be further from the truth.

None of you know what that 40mph road looks like. How much traffic it carries - or even what time of day I drove down it at that speed.

You're all making assumptions without knowing the full facts. For all you know, Maljonic's 30mph road might be a dual carriageway at 0100 in the morning.

The be-all and end-all of safe driving does not mean sticking to speed limits. Its a very very minor part of being a safe driver.

 

[Tom]

100mph down a 40? With all due respect Tom, who are you to say it was "perfectly safe"?

I'm the person who drove down it. Thats who.

 

[mank!]

Stop being such a weapons grade bellend. Theres a 40mph road down me that I've done 100mph down, and it was perfectly safe. A number on a stick means fuck all.

I imagine the next time you do that and run over someone's kid, you'll feel differently.

41mph in a 30mph zone, you broke the law, pay the fine/take the points and get on with your life. I'm sure we've all broken the law and accepted the punishment, why avoid it just because it happens to be speeding?

100mph in a 40mph zone is indefensible, regardless of any mitigating circumstances. You are a prize clem.

 

[TdC]

why avoid it just because it happens to be speeding?

indeed. imo there are no debateable laws in practice. you debate laws in theory, and of enough people agree they will be changed, but until they are changed you have to obey them. simple enough imo.

oh, I semi agree with Tom, but the problem is the massive grey area that will be created. In law, I imagine that the most important thing is to minimize the grey at all costs.

 

[DaGaffer]

I imagine the next time you do that and run over someone's kid, you'll feel differently.

41mph in a 30mph zone, you broke the law, pay the fine/take the points and get on with your life. I'm sure we've all broken the law and accepted the punishment, why avoid it just because it happens to be speeding?

100mph in a 40mph zone is indefensible, regardless of any mitigating circumstances. You are a prize clem.

You're missing the point. Speed cameras (or rather the fixed penalty notice process) are breaking the law. You're saying its OK to break the law to catch an offender. Think about where that road goes (if you'll pardon the pun). If I get caught by a cop, fair do's, but even more annoying than the revenue raising process cameras have become, they don't even fucking work in reducing road deaths. Even the government's own figures reckon only 5% of road deaths are directly related to speed in excess of the posted limits and even their most bullish estimate (e.g. speed inappopriate for conditions but still within posted limits) gives just over a quarter of deaths as speed related. The vast majority of road deaths are caused by pedestrians and males between 17-19, factors that speed cameras will do nothing to fix but more coppers in police cars might.

The law is an ass. I don't agree with Tom doing 100 in a 40, but at the same time, I believe that if a law is a bad law you don't just bend over and take it.

 

[Alan]

You're all making assumptions without knowing the full facts. For all you know, Maljonic's 30mph road might be a dual carriageway at 0100 in the morning.

The be-all and end-all of safe driving does not mean sticking to speed limits. Its a very very minor part of being a safe driver.

The only fact we know is the road was limited to 40mph for a reason and to be honest that the only fact that really matters.

The be-all and end-all of safe driving is not just sticking to the speed limits, but speed limits are there for a reason. Regardless of the road, the environment, the time of day doing 100mph in a 40mph limit is just lunacy.

 

[Tom]

You don't know that the road was limited to 40mph for a good reason.

Near me, theres a road that used to be called the A6144(M). A unique single carriageway motorway, without central reservation, and a 70mph speed limit. The only road in the country to be a 70mph single carriageway road.

It recently had its motorway status removed, and is now an A road - so the NSL would be 60mph right? The council in its wisdom reduced it to 50mph. Their excuse was that 50mph was the average speed measured, and that they could set the speed at the average. They disregarded the fact that many people mistakenly thought it was a 40mph road. The disregarded the many HGVs that use it, and because its SCL, are restricted to 40mph. They also ignored the time-honoured method of setting safe speed limits, the 85th percentile.

So the only reason it dropped from 70mph to 50mph, instead of 60mph, was ignorance. The road is quite capable of sustaining traffic at 70mph. It has an extremely good safety record as well, so no excuses there.

You want to know what the killer is? The very same week it dropped from 70mph to 50mph, speed scamera vans were in operation on its length. Now you tell me, on a road that hasn't seen a serious accident in a great many years, why those vans would be there for any other reason than to make money so that otherwise unemployable idiots could have a job?

Oh, and the 40mph road you're all going on about me being irresponsible on? Its perfectly straight, runs between 2 massive fields, no hedgerows, there are no junctions, no houses, no side roads, 1 pavement, its fully lit at night, its wide enough to take 4 lanes of traffic (even though there are only 2), and its almost a mile long. Doesn't sound quite so irresponsible now, does it?

 

[Calaen]

Fo Alan, Tom taught Jeremy Clarkson how to drive and he knows everything.

The fact that Tom thinks he knows whats best is the reason we need speed limits. If we had everyone thinking they could drive at whatever speed the deaths on roads due to speeding would be much higher.

Dagaffer most people will stick to the limits.

 

[Calaen]

Oh, and the 40mph road you're all going on about me being irresponsible on? Its perfectly straight, runs between 2 massive fields, no hedgerows, there are no junctions, no houses, no side roads, 1 pavement, its fully lit at night, its wide enough to take 4 lanes of traffic (even though there are only 2), and its almost a mile long. Doesn't sound quite so irresponsible now, does it?

No it still sounds like you are a cock. No matter how you try and justify it, you believe you are above the law when it comes to road speed because you watch Top gear. Give me a bell when they are cutting you from your vehicle I would like some photos for FH.... Muppet.

 

[Dukat]

The only fact we know is the road was limited to 40mph for a reason and to be honest that the only fact that really matters.

The be-all and end-all of safe driving is not just sticking to the speed limits, but speed limits are there for a reason. Regardless of the road, the environment, the time of day doing 100mph in a 40mph limit is just lunacy.

What he said.

I dont personally see a problem with speed cameras, I admit I hate speed limits that make you go so slow you're near enough stationary, but as much as I hate over-restrictive speed limits, I hate the fucking mongs who speed through at twice the limit far, far more.

I was always told while learning to ride my motorbike: "its not yourself you need to worry about, its the other idiots on the road", I didnt realise how true that was untill I was going down a 40mph limit road only to be overtaken by a fucking van at speeds my little 125 cbr could only dream of

As you can probably guess from my post I feel strongly about this, mainly because of the amount of friends I've lost (or nearly lost) to careless drivers.

 

[Tom]

If we had everyone thinking they could drive at whatever speed the deaths on roads due to speeding would be much higher.

Speed limits have a role to play, but enforcement of speed limits via automated camera systems has no benefit to road safety whatsoever. And allowing local authorities to set limits based on average traffic speed, and not the 85th percentile is just madness, and is reflected in the trend of fatalities in this country not having reduced by any real amount since the mid-nineties.

Tell you what, ask some of the bikers on this forum which they think is more important - observation - or speed.

 

[Tom]

No it still sounds like you are a cock. No matter how you try and justify it, you believe you are above the law when it comes to road speed because you watch Top gear. Give me a bell when they are cutting you from your vehicle I would like some photos for FH.... Muppet.

What has Top Gear got to do with speed?

Oh, and thank you for supporting my position. Virtually everybody in this country, every time they drive, breaks a speed limit at some point in their journey. They all do it. Therefore the law is an ass.

 

[Frizz]

The law is in the wrong because people break it all the time? Are you an anarchist?

 

[JBP|]

Dagaffer most people will stick to the limits.

Actually most people DO drive between 5 and 10 mph over any speed limit.


There is some statistic going round that you will be caught speeding once every 40,000 miles you drive.

Best bet is take the points and pay up, i did.

 

[Calaen]

Oh, and thank you for supporting my position. Virtually everybody in this country, every time they drive, breaks a speed limit at some point in their journey. They all do it. Therefore I am an ass.

Fixed for clarity. Cock bag.

 

[Alan]

Fo Alan, Tom taught Jeremy Clarkson how to drive and he knows everything.

The fact that Tom thinks he knows whats best is the reason we need speed limits. If we had everyone thinking they could drive at whatever speed the deaths on roads due to speeding would be much higher.

Dagaffer most people will stick to the limits.

I bet you even the Clarkson God would not boast that hes done 100mph in a 40pmh limit and it was perfectly safe

I think that speed cameras are a waste of time, I think some speed limits are just bloody stupid, I have gone over 100mph too - but I would never say that doing 100mph on any public road was "perfectly safe"

 

[mank!]

Speed limits have a role to play, but enforcement of speed limits via automated camera systems has no benefit to road safety whatsoever. And allowing local authorities to set limits based on average traffic speed, and not the 85th percentile is just madness, and is reflected in the trend of fatalities in this country not having reduced by any real amount since the mid-nineties.

Tell you what, ask some of the bikers on this forum which they think is more important - observation - or speed.

I agree that speed cameras are useless but I'm not going to flaunt the system when I'm breaking the law. I speed, although I only ever do it on dual carriageways or NSL roads I know well - i.e. the A420 - and if I was done for speeding I'd accept the fine without any grumbling because I was breaking the law - it's that simple.

You can be as oberservant as you want but if you're doing 100mph, you ain't gonna stop as quickly as you would if you were doing 40mph are you?

"I believe that if a law is a bad law you don't just bend over and take it."

Why should you bend the law then? There are far more ridiculous laws out there - standing at football is illegal for instance. Christ on a bike, how dangerous is that? I might kill someone!

 

[DaGaffer]

Dagaffer most people will stick to the limits.

Since one in four (and rising) drivers has a speeding conviction, and they're just the ones who've been caught, that's clearly untrue. Most drivers speed, and most do it every day.

I have no problem with speed limits when they make sense, and I have no problem with strong enforcement, where its appropriate, but anyone who believes speed cameras are the answer is deluded, the accident and death rate figures prove that. The danger of speed cameras is that they've allowed regional police forces to slash the number of traffic cops, so enforcement of all the things that speed cameras can't cover (like inattentive driving, twats on mobile phones, middle lane hoggers, untaxed and uninsured drivers etc. etc. etc.) are allowed to proliferate.

I'm quite sure speed cameras have caught drivers going too fast for the conditions, and they may even have saved a few lives, but every life saved has been more than offset by the lives lost by not having coppers on the beat, and that's why I'd get rid of 90% of them and why I wouldn't allow councils or "road safety partnerships" anywhere near public safety.

 

[DaGaffer]

Why should you bend the law then? There are far more ridiculous laws out there - standing at football is illegal for instance. Christ on a bike, how dangerous is that? I might kill someone!

There are lots of ridiculous laws, but as a population we're so fucking supine that we just allow it happen to us. The number of laws brought about by single issue pressure groups or just to create another layer of public service workers to suck at the Chancellor's teat (and assure their votes) is obscene. The French would set fire to things (sheep probably) and even the Americans routinely vote out bad laws at state level. But the Brits are sheep.

 

[Tom]

but until they are changed you have to obey them. simple enough imo.

Sorry Teeds but I disagree. History is full of instances where people have got together and said "No, fuck that. Thats bullshit, and we're not having it." and had the law changed for better or worse.

Ask a traffic officer what he thinks about speed enforcement. Its way way down on the list of whats important.

Thats if you can find one these days.