TV Dr Who - Why?

[rynnor]

... make the last episode so bad!

It was really self indulgent crap - theres a good 20 minutes should have been cut just from the second episode and the plot overall was weak and derivative from a dozen other episodes.

Over-using prophecy is a really stupid idea and just looks so crass - where have all the decent writers gone?

 

[Moriath]

cause it was Russell T Davies

 

[Chilly]

Why make any more Dr Who's ever?

Because the kids that saw it first time round are now all grown up and running things. It's a crap show.

 

[Moriath]

its not crap its family entertainment thats better than strictly x factors got talent

 

[Zenith.UK]

I agree with Moriath, but it's more than just that. There's a new generation of young viewers watching and it's a franchise that the BBC can market.

Russell T Davies isn't at the helm any more. It's Steven Moffat, which means better writing. He's the guy behind the episodes considered the best of the new run of Dr Who.
"The Empty Child"
"Blink"
"Silence In The Library"

 

[Sparx]

i feel a little empty after that to be honest. Im not sure if i liked the 2 specials or not

 

[00dave]

new doctor looks a complete tit, new sidekick looks hot but if I have to watch that long hair emo fuck knuckle eating her face off every episode I just won't bother.

 

[Shagrat]

Well my 2 kids still think its ace so its hitting the market its primarily aimed at really.

hit and miss to me, but still better than 90% of other tv churned out these days as it didnt involve:

a: some form of reality bollocks, I like to watch tv for escapism, not to watch people doing shit jobs or being cocks.

b: celebrities doing something. its not interesting, just fuck off and get proper jobs. I dont want to watch you all being bitches at each others dinner parties etc.....

so roll on more escapist dr who, and day of the triffids, turn of the screw and the few other decent dramatisations that have been on over christmas

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

I will admit I was disappointed with it.

I felt most of the first episode was preamble - filler and empty air. It somewhat woke up in the last 20 minutes and finished on a gloriously cheesey cliffhanger.

Its the first time I've seen John Simms in a performance I thought was pretty bad. He had all the presence and menace of a wet hamster.

Onto the second episode and it didn't get much better any time soon.
They lost out on a huge opportunity to have some great interaction between David Tennant and Mr. Skinner, er, I mean Timothy Dalton.

While we expect ropey SFX from the beeb, some of what they had on display was very badly done. I've always thought of Dr. Who as trashy fun, but this was mostly just trash. The story, such as it was, would easily have fitted into a single episode and the padding was easily apparent.

Rather than waffling about the threat of what would come through with the timelords they should have got on with making exactly that happen, somewhat sooner in the episodes so that there was some genuine tension and some baddies to get to grips with instead of lots of people standing around talking. If you look at the second episode, thats mostly what it was. Just a few people standing around talking.

Spoiler

The worst part was David Tennant standing waving a gun around. Aiming at the Master or Boss Timelord alternately. Lets face it, if Boss Timelord thought he was going to get shot, he'd have pointed his whizzo glove at the Doctor and just let rip, not poncing around waiting. Very,very badly written and executed scene at the supposed climax. There were also huge plotholes all over the place. Timelords in sealed time bubble,can't do anything. Flunky timelord exits the scene and returns telling Boss Timelord that they've managed to pop the hidden control message into the Master's brain. WHAT?

Regardless of target audience, to sustain interest a piece of drama must sustain its own internal logic to keep suspension of disbelief. This was lazily written, badly paced and a big letdown. I'm usually fairly forgiving of this kind of thing, keeping in mind that its aimed low down on the brain scale but most of this really was pretty bad.

 

[Ch3tan]

Tennant was a great Doctor, and that was a shit way for him to go out. Feel let down after the first episode hinted at more.

Roo has hit the nail on the head with the spoilers above.

 

[Vae]

Regardless of target audience, to sustain interest a piece of drama must sustain its own internal logic to keep suspension of disbelief.

This is what I get most disappointed with Doctor Who about and also what I hope Stephen Moffat can most improve on, given his previous episodes.

As long as the story makes sense and is consistent then I can suspend belief and get involved with the story being told. When it gets silly (e.g. the broken spaceship now able to skim along the surface of the sea and shoot down some kind of missles, that launch from silos and instantly appear at their target, with laser cockpits) I have difficulty suspending that belief and the story suffers.

The best episodes have been the ones that are consistent. You can introduce something fantastic (in the fantasy rather than great sense) but everything should fit in with it.

 

[ilaya]

it was piss poor.

 

[old.user4556]

They're all shite.

 

[Wij]

Davies can't write sci-fi for shit. He just takes it that he can make any old shit up and we have to accept it.

 

[Edmond]

Oh FFS get over yourselves, its Dr Who not Tolstoy, its meant to be cheesy and fun and full of holes. There allowed to change the rules to make it work, otherwise the Dr would have died in the first series back in the 60's

And Shagrat is right, it knock spots off all the reality guff that gets churned out every Saturday night, and yes RTD can be a bit weak at times, but i thought these last 2 episodes were done very well

I'm not sure about the new guy, but i remember saying that about Tennant at the time, and with Moffat at the helm it should be good

Just enjoy it for what it is, and if you dont like it, dont watch it. There are over 200 channels churning out 'I'm a-reality-football-celebrity-fake boobs-cook off- get me out of here' bollocks 24/7

And I bet half of you will be posting here next week moaning about what a 'cock' some Z-list celebrity is getting up to in the BB house and 'how dare they fill our screens with this bollocks' but you'll all be watching it though wont you..........

 

[taB]

Oh FFS get over yourselves, its Dr Who not Tolstoy, its meant to be cheesy and fun and full of holes. There allowed to change the rules to make it work, otherwise the Dr would have died in the first series back in the 60's

And Shagrat is right, it knock spots off all the reality guff that gets churned out every Saturday night, and yes RTD can be a bit weak at times, but i thought these last 2 episodes were done very well

I'm not sure about the new guy, but i remember saying that about Tennant at the time, and with Moffat at the helm it should be good

Just enjoy it for what it is, and if you dont like it, dont watch it. There are over 200 channels churning out 'I'm a-reality-football-celebrity-fake boobs-cook off- get me out of here' bollocks 24/7

And I bet half of you will be posting here next week moaning about what a 'cock' some Z-list celebrity is getting up to in the BB house and 'how dare they fill our screens with this bollocks' but you'll all be watching it though wont you..........

Sorry, I'm with the "it was fucking terrible" camp.

Being Human is back on soon though so there's some hope for TV.

 

[Turamber]

I liked the second part, but the first parter was desperately poor - apart from the last few minutes with John Simm hamming it up.

 

[Yoni]

I cried. I loved Tenant as a Dr he was completely awesome. The new chap had a lot to live up to.

Oh I agree with Edmond. Stop whining and enjoy it for what it is... family entertainment.

 

[MYstIC G]

Erm, no.

The second episode was complete trash. The first one was padded but you actually felt it was leading somewhere but then... nothing.

While I've got confidence in the change in writers, I've got no confidence in the new Who, when he said the old catchphrase it was a very cringe-worthy moment.

 

[rynnor]

I've got no confidence in the new Who, when he said the old catchphrase it was a very cringe-worthy moment.

Yes - it raises the nasty possibility that he will play it as some kind of weak echo of Tennant.

The points that it is family entertainment have some weight but I think the reason people get annoyed with it is because the first new series was so much better with classic episodes like 'The Empty Child'.

Tennant and the script-writers have progressively lost the darker feel that first series had which is a real missed opportunity.

 

[mycenae]

RTD lost the darker feel....Tennant is doing the best of a bad job in those episodes. However, There were some stonkers of episodes - Family of Blood, Blink, Silence in the library, The Empty child. Tennant was amazing in ALL of these, the Moff wrote them all and its him who has taken over, so even though I also don't like the new guy at first glance, I'm willing to give him a chance.
Anyways, like others have said, whatever might be said about it, its still better than all the reality garbage thats everywhere and its good family entertainment!

 

[Gumbo]

Anyone else notice the nods to Star Wars? The way all the timelords were assembled like the senate is in SW? The millenium falconesque way they went to the guns to shoot down the missiles? Barrowman in the Mos Eisley Cantina?

That's the first Dr Who I've watched since Tom Baker I think, are they always so blatantly plagiarist?

 

[Jupitus]

Spoiler

The worst part was David Tennant standing waving a gun around. Aiming at the Master or Boss Timelord alternately. Lets face it, if Boss Timelord thought he was going to get shot, he'd have pointed his whizzo glove at the Doctor and just let rip, not poncing around waiting. Very,very badly written and executed scene at the supposed climax. There were also huge plotholes all over the place. Timelords in sealed time bubble,can't do anything. Flunky timelord exits the scene and returns telling Boss Timelord that they've managed to pop the hidden control message into the Master's brain. WHAT?

Indeed.

Spoiler

and why oh why oh why did his gun have to make a 'click-click' reloading sound just because he turned around??????

 

[Edmond]

Spoiler

i think he was actually pulling the trigger each time, but there was only one bullet, a bit russian roulette if you like

 

[MYstIC G]

That's the first Dr Who I've watched since Tom Baker I think, are they always so blatantly plagiarist?

Not really, which was another point I'd forgotten. It was very cheap.

As for pulling the trigger, the fact that they put a gun in the hands of the Doctor in any event was awful, just awful.

Oh and who was the chick Wilf was having his deep and meaningful conversations with?

 

[Raven]

I thought it was shit but then I only watch it because the wife does so I am not that bothered. She was disappointed with it though.

 

[DaGaffer]

Oh and who was the chick Wilf was having his deep and meaningful conversations with?

I think its Donna.

 

[mycenae]

I have a few friends who are Who crazy.....the most Who crazy (and Who knowledgable) wrote this..................


"I’m not sure if the country was ready for The End of Time…. Having publicised the story for the last few weeks with the subtly of someone repeatedly smashing a huge girder in your face with the words ‘Watch The Doctor Die’ etched on the side, the BBC was evidently of the belief that they had a slice of TV gold on their hands. A movie-length extravaganza of emotion, adventure and cacti which would culminate in the death of the most popular Doctor of all time. It was therefore such a shame that so much of it was total pants.
Before I have RTD beating down my door in a fury for not fully appreciating his masterpiece I should say that I liked the last 15 minutes, DT’s final line (I actually was hoping that the whole Matt Smith thing was an elaborate hoax and that DT would say ‘fooled you all, I’m staying for another fours years…’), and the regeneration. However the story that preceded these few minutes was so contrived and disappointing that it sucked any emotional wallop from that final scene. One review of the classic series story The Time Monster says that watching it ‘was like watching paint dry whilst being whipped with barbed wire – immensely dull and painful at the same time’. The End of Time was that but with added paint and barbs.
I’m not going to break it down into individual episodes as that was clearly not the intention of RTD when writing a ‘Part 1’ and ‘Part 2’, but suffice to say that Part 1 was very poor and hardly the stuff that epics are made from. Things did get a bit better in Part 2 but only marginally.
What went wrong? Perhaps we were all so hyped up with anticipation that any final story was going to be a disappointment. That may be part of it, but the fact is that the plot was so confusing, overblown, and ultimately unsatisfying that it was never going to entertain. Let’s start with the Master. No problems from me about bringing him back but the way it was done was perhaps the first signal that The End of Time was not going to be a nice straightforward adventure. Okay, so the Master’s disciples had been planning his return, but what were these ‘books of Saxon’ that were referred to? Some bestseller the Master wrote whilst humming Track 3 of the Scissor Sisters? What was the point of having the gorgeous Lucy Saxon there at all? What actually was in the ring? When Lucy Saxon described how her family anticipated the Master’s followers bringing him back from the dead I thought I was watching The Curse of Fatal Death and the infamous trapdoor scene. At least that was funny…
Why was the Master now able to fly around on jets of energy? What exactly was his plan after turning the whole population into himself? And what actually happened to him at the end of the story? Was it me or did he just vanish with no explanation of where he’d gone?!
It was lovely to have such a lot of Bernard Cribbins. Every scene he was in was beautifully pitched and played but what was the point of Donna being in the story? I actually can’t think of a reason for her being there. She literally did nothing. She didn’t even die which I though was a certainly when she started remembering the Doctor and her time with him. Was there a throwaway line to explain why she didn’t? Probably, but if there was I missed it (or did I actually not care by that stage?!).
And the Time Lords… Well no one f*cks with Timothy Dalton and his big metal glove do they?! I think it was a great idea to finally see them and explore a little more about the Time War. For a thrilling moment I thought we were going to get to see Paul McGann using ‘The Moment’ to end the war but that may have been one step too far. The Time Lords plan was totally convoluted and I almost stopped trying to understand the plot at that point. It just didn’t seem right to make them the ‘bad guys’, and it seemed awfully convenient to be able to end their plan by shooting a piece of equipment and a diamond.
However I did like the idea that they had manipulated the Master’s entire life with the drum beat / heart beat in order to save themselves. Timothy Dalton was actually pretty damn good and Ravi mentioned to me the other day that he thought TD would have made an excellent Master. How true! Maybe we’ll get to see him again. Hopefully however they’ll change his name on his return, as the fan-boy in me screamed ‘He CAN’T be Rassilon’ when the Doctor named him.
I could probably go on and on but I think you get a feel for where I’m going with this. Some good ideas and some good scenes but it just didn’t hang together. There were some really dreadful moments, mainly involving the cactus people (neither of whom I’m sure were members of Equity), but also some badly thought through humour and jokes that fell flat.
Finally DT and the death of the Doctor. Well, we knew it was coming (as did the rest of the country). I think I’d guessed that Wilf would be the source of the four knocks but the moment it happened was brilliantly done and DT’s reaction and the subsequent scene were excellent. This Doctor just didn’t want to die and made it very clear that he didn’t. I loved the fact that a fall from about 300 feet through a glass roof didn’t kill him though! DT gave a pretty decent performance throughout and some of his scenes in Part 1 with Wilf were excellent (the café moment being possibly the best). Not his best performance by any means though.
The final ten minutes was a bit self indulgent on the part of RTD, but in a way it was good to see all the old faces for one last time. I really did like the scene at the book signing – just very nicely done. The self indulgency perhaps went on a bit TOO long and it took the Doctor just a bit TOO long to die. However DT’s final moment where he actually cries as he starts to regenerate were pitched perfectly.
I don’t think there’s much point in saying much about Matt Smith at this stage. We had the usual manic post-regeneration scene (a bit like DT’s) and I’m sure his performance will settle down. I’m not sure why the TARDIS blew up at the end (other than it needing to so that The Moff can re-design the inside and change the shape of the police box exterior!).
So all in all a bit of a missed opportunity and a bit of a mess. I’m sad to see DT go and in a way RTD, but I think the whole series was in danger of disappearing up its rapidly continuity-filled backside and a major re-boot was necessary. Let’s hope some lessons have been learned for series 5."

 

[Zenith.UK]

I have a few friends who are Who crazy.....the most Who crazy (and Who knowledgable) wrote this..................


<snipped for brevity>
I’m not sure why the TARDIS blew up at the end (other than it needing to so that The Moff can re-design the inside and change the shape of the police box exterior!).

So how does blowing up the interior of the TARDIS repair the chameleon circuit? I want more exploration of the TARDIS itself. The older series played with the idea of an infinitely long interior very well, while the current set of series have only mentioned finding a room with loads of clothes from different eras.

 

[Ch3tan]

Oh FFS get over yourselves, its Dr Who not Tolstoy, its meant to be cheesy and fun and full of holes. There allowed to change the rules to make it work, otherwise the Dr would have died in the first series back in the 60's

And Shagrat is right, it knock spots off all the reality guff that gets churned out every Saturday night, and yes RTD can be a bit weak at times, but i thought these last 2 episodes were done very well

I'm not sure about the new guy, but i remember saying that about Tennant at the time, and with Moffat at the helm it should be good

Just enjoy it for what it is, and if you dont like it, dont watch it. There are over 200 channels churning out 'I'm a-reality-football-celebrity-fake boobs-cook off- get me out of here' bollocks 24/7

And I bet half of you will be posting here next week moaning about what a 'cock' some Z-list celebrity is getting up to in the BB house and 'how dare they fill our screens with this bollocks' but you'll all be watching it though wont you..........

Nope, I refuse to swallow the bollocks we got in part 2, I like Dr Who, I often overlook the little flaws and jsut enjoy it for what it was. But this was absolutely ridiculous. They turned what could have been a brilliant two parter into a mockery.

Just because you like a program does not mean you cannot be critical off it, you are the first person who I have heard defend this episode, amongst all the people I know that watch Dr Who.