Does anyone have...
- Thread starter Sycho
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #63
Old.Ilum said:tsk minim8 either u show me how banespike increases dps more if a weap is slower, or it's 1 more FL nutter who's being wrong here
I already showed you several times in the thread and no it's not wrong, just aren't understanding like revz did, but i guess he's a nutter who's wrong too then?
Your calculation would be correct without ToA bonuses, not with though.
- Thread starter
- #69
Axiom said:
No it's not, maybe on the dps thing it was, but the calculated percentages was right.(that's mainly what i was refering to in the first place)
Simply because if the set value is higher so will the number gained from it will also increase because it's a percentage you using to caculate the bonus gained from the set value.The same for weapon delays when haste/qui is calculated to get your swing beed.This brings the 0.1 per point of delay out of proportion the more larger the delay of the weap, the higher the 0.1 per delay of the weapon increase like i said earlier.(0.1 delay before qui/haste aswell as other damage bonuses is 10 or so, now go calculate the damage gained with different speed weapons after qui/haste and toa bonuses are applied, i bet it's more the higher the delay of the weapon)
I can't see why some people think that 10% melee damage bonus of a 4.1 speed weapon is the same as 10% melee damage of a 4.4 weapon, but if you want to think that's true then fair enough.
- Thread starter
- #70
4.1 spd weapon 200 base dmg, 10% toa melee dmg=220.
4.4 spd weapon 230 base dmg, 10% melee dmg=253.
Add banespike too each, the 4.1 has 275 and the 4.4 has 316.
The 4.1 hits 1.85s and the 4.4 hits 1.98s.
Are you honestly telling me 0.15s swing speed is better than 41 more damage per swing?
I said this earlier, it wasn't hard to understand.
4.4 spd weapon 230 base dmg, 10% melee dmg=253.
Add banespike too each, the 4.1 has 275 and the 4.4 has 316.
The 4.1 hits 1.85s and the 4.4 hits 1.98s.
Are you honestly telling me 0.15s swing speed is better than 41 more damage per swing?
I said this earlier, it wasn't hard to understand.
InertiaSlave
Fledgling Freddie
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2004
- Messages
- 294
Who cares? The sword looks good, that's all that matters 
Vermillon
One of Freddy's beloved
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2004
- Messages
- 374
LoL guys your posts realy made me smile irl, funny to see people i concider friends argueing like roosters in the yard.
Sycho clasic as always keep trying to find a way to rised his preciouse DMG
Ilum holds the way of reason which tells that the overall dps is the same with in a time frame.
And Xean ones again pulls the snake out of its hole, and explains how reality works.
I'm glad you remain the same though i dont see you much anymore.
My opinion is like Xean said tho, the speed diference is non countable in this example but the dmg is obviously bigger. After all if as it happens in game you rarely have that proper time frame that gives the faster weapon to match up the dmg of the heavy weapon. Any way the faster weapon will catch up the dmg of the heavy one when the heavy one is about to swing again.
Lets say you just gave the final blow with the heavy weapon, the fast weapon would had killed the same target after some time passed.
I'll make a graph here
heavy weapon (less speed more dmg per swing)
hit_-__-__-__ hit_-__-__-__ hit(kill) (same dmg)
hit_hit_hit_hit_hit_hit_hit_hit_hit_hit_hit_hit(kill) (same dmg)
fast weapon (more speed less dmg)
It is obvious that the fast weapon has to spend some more time one the target.
Sycho clasic as always keep trying to find a way to rised his preciouse DMG
Ilum holds the way of reason which tells that the overall dps is the same with in a time frame.
And Xean ones again pulls the snake out of its hole, and explains how reality works.
I'm glad you remain the same though i dont see you much anymore.
My opinion is like Xean said tho, the speed diference is non countable in this example but the dmg is obviously bigger. After all if as it happens in game you rarely have that proper time frame that gives the faster weapon to match up the dmg of the heavy weapon. Any way the faster weapon will catch up the dmg of the heavy one when the heavy one is about to swing again.
Lets say you just gave the final blow with the heavy weapon, the fast weapon would had killed the same target after some time passed.
I'll make a graph here
heavy weapon (less speed more dmg per swing)
hit_-__-__-__ hit_-__-__-__ hit(kill) (same dmg)
hit_hit_hit_hit_hit_hit_hit_hit_hit_hit_hit_hit(kill) (same dmg)
fast weapon (more speed less dmg)
It is obvious that the fast weapon has to spend some more time one the target.
- Thread starter
- #74
I wasn't talking about dps in the first place, i always talking about the larger delay weapons gaining more from the bonuses, just like the larger your sum of cash in a bank in real life the more interest you gain from it.
This is what wyrd said the guy who does all dps calculations on VN boards aswell as growth rate for styles:
There is a slow-weapon damage mod calculated in to give slower weapons a higher proportional DPS.
SpdMod = 1+(Spd-2)*0.03
Because of this, slower weapons have a higher DPS than faster ones. Even so, there is a distinct advantage for swinging faster. Offensively it allows for you to make better use of conditional styles and defensively it makes it harder for enemies to use those styles on you. Granted, if youre swinging too fast to react to the styles, then its a hindrance.
W
This is what wyrd said the guy who does all dps calculations on VN boards aswell as growth rate for styles:
There is a slow-weapon damage mod calculated in to give slower weapons a higher proportional DPS.
SpdMod = 1+(Spd-2)*0.03
Because of this, slower weapons have a higher DPS than faster ones. Even so, there is a distinct advantage for swinging faster. Offensively it allows for you to make better use of conditional styles and defensively it makes it harder for enemies to use those styles on you. Granted, if youre swinging too fast to react to the styles, then its a hindrance.
W
Melachi
Fledgling Freddie
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2003
- Messages
- 1,001
Ok, I gave up reading after page three I think, but basically what Ilum said is right.
Xeanor I dont know if you have realised but you have infact prooved what Ilum said.
Sycho a mistake you are making is that 0.1 delay = 10 damage, wrong.
Damage Cap = DPS * SPD * 3 * (1 + (SPD – 2) * .03)
So imagineing your scenario of a 4.1 -v- a 4.3 weapon with rr11, banespike and all that other haste/damage stuff and using a .6 growthrate style:
4.1 Weapon with 250qui 10%item 20%spell haste and 10%item and 25%banespike damage, .6 growthrate style and rr11 and 10%style damage.
16.5 * 4.1 * 3 * (1 + (4.1 - 2) * .03) = 215.73585
215.73585*1.10*1.25 = 296.63679375
((Growth Rate * Weapon Spec) * Effective Speed) = Style damage
((0.60 * 71) * 1.83024 ) = 77.968224
77.968224 * 1.10 = 85.7650464
Total Damage of 4.1 user = 85.7650464 + 296.63679375 = 382.40184015
382.40184015 in 1.83024 seconds = 208.9353528225... DPS
================
Now the 4.4 user with all the same bonuses ect..
16.5 * 4.4 * 3 * (1 + (4.4 - 2) * .03) = 233.4816
233.4816*1.10*1.25 = 321.0372
((Growth Rate * Weapon Spec) * Effective Speed) = Style damage
((0.60 * 71) * 1.96416) = 83.673216
83.673216 * 1.10 = 92.0405376
Total Damage of 4.1 user = 92.0405376 + 321.0372 = 413.0777376
413.0777376 in 1.96416 seconds = 210.30758064516... DPS
Difference in damage, 1.4 pts every second, reason for this difirence, is because how damage caps are calculated, slower weapons recieve the tinyest tinyest extra damage, however its so small its negligible, and truncation could even cancle it out in some cases.
Those are actual figures, assuming a few things though (that banespike 25% is calculated after the item 10% bonus) and (that banespike doesnt affect style damage).
Xeanor I dont know if you have realised but you have infact prooved what Ilum said.
Sycho a mistake you are making is that 0.1 delay = 10 damage, wrong.
Damage Cap = DPS * SPD * 3 * (1 + (SPD – 2) * .03)
So imagineing your scenario of a 4.1 -v- a 4.3 weapon with rr11, banespike and all that other haste/damage stuff and using a .6 growthrate style:
4.1 Weapon with 250qui 10%item 20%spell haste and 10%item and 25%banespike damage, .6 growthrate style and rr11 and 10%style damage.
16.5 * 4.1 * 3 * (1 + (4.1 - 2) * .03) = 215.73585
215.73585*1.10*1.25 = 296.63679375
((Growth Rate * Weapon Spec) * Effective Speed) = Style damage
((0.60 * 71) * 1.83024 ) = 77.968224
77.968224 * 1.10 = 85.7650464
Total Damage of 4.1 user = 85.7650464 + 296.63679375 = 382.40184015
382.40184015 in 1.83024 seconds = 208.9353528225... DPS
================
Now the 4.4 user with all the same bonuses ect..
16.5 * 4.4 * 3 * (1 + (4.4 - 2) * .03) = 233.4816
233.4816*1.10*1.25 = 321.0372
((Growth Rate * Weapon Spec) * Effective Speed) = Style damage
((0.60 * 71) * 1.96416) = 83.673216
83.673216 * 1.10 = 92.0405376
Total Damage of 4.1 user = 92.0405376 + 321.0372 = 413.0777376
413.0777376 in 1.96416 seconds = 210.30758064516... DPS
Difference in damage, 1.4 pts every second, reason for this difirence, is because how damage caps are calculated, slower weapons recieve the tinyest tinyest extra damage, however its so small its negligible, and truncation could even cancle it out in some cases.
Those are actual figures, assuming a few things though (that banespike 25% is calculated after the item 10% bonus) and (that banespike doesnt affect style damage).
- Thread starter
- #77
Melachi said:
I said it's "around" 10, this doesn't mean i said it is.Most of it was rough, so not accurate, i am not going to argue over something silly to do with a mediocre game i never really play anymore.
Besides wyrd also said this:
It doesnt even take the ToA bonuses to make a 4.4 Spd weapon have a higher DPS than the 4.1.
W
Melachi
Fledgling Freddie
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2003
- Messages
- 1,001
Sycho said:
Thats based on the fact that the slower a weapon the more dps it gains from the the base damage formula. However the slower a weapon does not me it gains any more from ToA bonuses or Banespike. And the ammount slow weapons gain is so tiny it can be lost in truncation.
But your right, its not worth argueing over, just a silly game that I dont even play anymore
