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Stallion-
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- #31
it adds melee resists for the baod user... 
they fixed it thou by stealthing it.. stil remains as it is now
they fixed it thou by stealthing it.. stil remains as it is now 
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necrofill
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- #32
aint hib caster grp is overpowered comparied to alb/mid caster grp the same as alb/mid caster grp is underpowered comparied to hib caster grp?
just a thought
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Kahland
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- #33
whirlwind like in d2!
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-Wedge-
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- #34
The only reason why hib-pbaoe casters are 'overpowered' is that their utility (and/or damage) is higher then the alb/mid counterpart...
Chanters can debuff their own damage AND have a pet AND pbaoe all at the same time... Nothing worse then having a chanter pet on your arse... And Elds well, disease, str/con debuff...
I wouldnt call either really overpowered, well, they could have put the heat debuff on the mentalist instead of chanter... (or in the enchantment line like with cabalists)
Its more that atleast the Wizard is under 'powered'... Mythic has confirmed this in the last Wizard TL report btw... Its not as much power or damage, just lacking...
Mythic promised to look into it, but they said it in such a tone that uh... They have really NO clue on what to do (they didnt want to add damage, and not utility, kinda leaves nothing though)
Stun is almost never really a problem, I can largely count on how much I get stunned in an evening by hib-casters...
Chanters can debuff their own damage AND have a pet AND pbaoe all at the same time... Nothing worse then having a chanter pet on your arse... And Elds well, disease, str/con debuff...
I wouldnt call either really overpowered, well, they could have put the heat debuff on the mentalist instead of chanter... (or in the enchantment line like with cabalists)
Its more that atleast the Wizard is under 'powered'... Mythic has confirmed this in the last Wizard TL report btw... Its not as much power or damage, just lacking...
Mythic promised to look into it, but they said it in such a tone that uh... They have really NO clue on what to do
(they didnt want to add damage, and not utility, kinda leaves nothing though)Stun is almost never really a problem, I can largely count on how much I get stunned in an evening by hib-casters...
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ola-
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- #35
Originally posted by Aussie-
aye i'm also looking forward to play with bows with 650 dmg cap on normal shot with 20% dmg bonus (own relics) 20% more range and 20% faster drawspeed
I read somewhere that +damage was only in PvE and only some special stuff affected PvP too? Not sure tho, all I know is based on VN where it can be alot of crap..
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Stallion-
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- #36
enchantment spec aint even close to the cabalist "side"...
ench spec is useless except for pve dadd
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zael_soulslayer
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- #37
hmm But if u dont get MoA how dex affects directly to ur casting speed? i mean ... how many points of dex wud u need to increase it?
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-Wedge-
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- #38
Your saying the spirit line is so good of a cabalist? Only reason to spec it is the body / spirit debuff...
The ae-snare is breakable by combat and on the same immunity timer as root... So its useless...
If your stating that a buffed caba-pet is more evil then a buffed chanter pet, not sure could be true... But the line itself isnt 'that' different...
So yes, they SHOULD have put heat debuff on either another char or on the enchantment spec... Or put the body-debuff in the cabalist-matter line, but 'no' that would be overpowered to have an ae-dot + body-debuffed-nuke...
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zael_soulslayer
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- #39
Re: Re: Dex relation to casting speed..
I think i cast at 1,5 s maybe a bit more with no aug dex or MoA ( yet ) fully buffed, with mota 5 specs and bases.
I ll have to try with MoA 3, next ra im getting. I think my dex cap is like 325 w/o ras.
I think i cast at 1,5 s maybe a bit more with no aug dex or MoA ( yet ) fully buffed, with mota 5 specs and bases.
I ll have to try with MoA 3, next ra im getting. I think my dex cap is like 325 w/o ras.
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Stallion-
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- #40
Originally posted by -Wedge-
Your saying the spirit line is so good of a cabalist? Only reason to spec it is the body / spirit debuff...
The ae-snare is breakable by combat and on the same immunity timer as root... So its useless...
If your stating that a buffed caba-pet is more evil then a buffed chanter pet, not sure could be true... But the line itself isnt 'that' different...
So yes, they SHOULD have put heat debuff on either another char or on the enchantment spec... Or put the body-debuff in the cabalist-matter line, but 'no' that would be overpowered to have an ae-dot + body-debuffed-nuke...
disease, debuffs, higher variance on base ldrain.
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noaim
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- #41
The only problem I noticed in ToA with debuffnuking my own damage with my chanter is that I drain my power way to fast with that castingspeed, you have no problems killing a non-tank in the time the debuff lasts. On the other hand with that castingspeed, I wonder if specnukes dont > baselinenukes even if you can debuff your own damage, since you save lots of power with specnukes.
MotA2, 345 dex and -19% castingtime from items (25% is cap)
MotA2, 345 dex and -19% castingtime from items (25% is cap)
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Stallion-
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- #42
well ur dmg output increases as ur mana drain does..u just notice if faster.
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noaim
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- #43
Yeah but you usually get more "wasted" nukes with that castingspeed...nukes that go off after target is dead, 1 or 2 nukes after debuff wore off if the target got healed etc. At least thats how I feel about it. But if you think that dont matter, then the nerf aint much to mention, to answer the original question....I think.
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hotrat
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- #44
An alb tank group will actually struggle vs a hib pbae group.
Lets say the alb land first mezz, hibs use GP, now hibs have the advantage as all the albs are still vulnerable to mezz while the hibs are immune and the sorc probably has at least 1 pet set to attack on them (no way you can land first mezz outside of 1500 range). If the clerics try and stay 1500 range away its likely the tanks attacking the pbae will not be in range for healing.
A solution we tried last night was to run an alb tank group with 2 mind sorcies, sadly we didnt meet any hib pbae groups but in theory you should have twice the chance to win
Yer but no PBAE and lets face it pbae is one of the best spells in the game. An alb pbae group already has to have at least 1 caster without pbae (sorc) im sure they don't want anymore.
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-Wedge-
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- #45
Disease / debuffs are not present in spirit, you do notice that right?
If you want to compare utility, then a spirit caba would probably win from an enchantment chanter (if heat-debuff was moved to that spec)... But current setup gives best of both worlds (best debuff for your base damage and best pbaoe)...
Which is a bit unfair...
Definitly if you look at wizards... Ok, Ice Wizards get a base-nuke without variance... But the debuff-nuke (both ae/single target) lack a whole damned lot compared to the heat-debuff that chanters have... Then to boot, chanters get a pet + speed...
And snare nuke is useless 90% of the time as ae-root is often used to stop tanks / etc after mez has worn off (e.g. makes snare nuke useless since its on the same immunity timer)...
So why would it have been such a problem to put the heat debuff in the enchantment line ?
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Garbannoch Nox
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- #46
Because then pbaoe groups would consist of elds only - it would make chanters obsolete. And if you wanna have debuff then you will go for a void eld (energy debuff for pbaoe and eld dd).
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hotrat
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- #47
Ok just put the disease from eld into chanter mana line, that way you need both classes.
Trouble is hibs dont "need" a chanter even with debuff in the mana line, its just extra damage, the spec nuke that elds get is good enough for most ranged damage purposes. Chanter is just a overpowered mong
Edit: oh and while your at it move str/con debuff to one of the mentalist lines, that way all your decent spells can be spread over all your caster classes, just like in alb
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old.Emma
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- #48
That same example of hib stun on there casters be be compaired to many other class's tbh.
Why do infils get a 9s stun off evade when SB`s dont.
Why does mid have 2h free when alb has to spec 2 lines for it.
Why do sorcs get not only the longest distance for mezz but also mezz reduction buffs when healers/bards dont.
Why does alb have the best end regen class when hib was the only realm to get it in the first place.
Why do SM pets intercept upto 70% of attacks (if your lucky) when no other pet class's pet does.
Why do Clerics get a spec AF which equates to 10-15% less melee damage taken when neither shaman's or druids do.
Why do healers have ae stun when no other realm has it.
and most importantly.... Why do Savages hit so bloody hard when no other class does ;p
It`s all swings and round abouts m8. There are alot of discrepancies in the game hib casters have stun is just one of many.
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Antedeluvian
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- #49
3 words, Zone Of Unmana, Bai Bai hib casters groups.
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hotrat
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- #50
I'll have a go
Why do infils get a 9s stun off evade when SB`s dont.
Infil is overpowered
Why does mid have 2h free when alb has to spec 2 lines for it.
Alb is gimped
Why do sorcs get not only the longest distance for mezz but also mezz reduction buffs when healers/bards dont.
Sorc wears cloth armor, and has very limited secondary abilities.
Why does alb have the best end regen class when hib was the only realm to get it in the first place.
Hib gets speed and end regen on the same class, freeing up a group spot for another class. Although *some* mid groups run without a skald so that kinda screws that theory up
Why do SM pets intercept upto 70% of attacks (if your lucky) when no other pet class's pet does.
Well chanters get a pet that can heal, caba's get a pet that can disease, at least SM pets cant be used to interupt as they need to be near the SM to intercept.
Why do Clerics get a spec AF which equates to 10-15% less melee damage taken when neither shaman's or druids do.
Alb is the *defensive* realm Why do druids and healers get haste buffs?
Why do healers have ae stun when no other realm has it.
Healers are overpowered nah not really, i cant think of one for this but tbh ae stun is not that useful in rvr.
and most importantly.... Why do Savages hit so bloody hard when no other class does ;p
Savage is overpowered
Anyway lets not get off topic I know what your saying, but castable stun on a damage dealing class is pretty damn annoying.
Why do infils get a 9s stun off evade when SB`s dont.
Infil is overpowered
Why does mid have 2h free when alb has to spec 2 lines for it.
Alb is gimped
Why do sorcs get not only the longest distance for mezz but also mezz reduction buffs when healers/bards dont.
Sorc wears cloth armor, and has very limited secondary abilities.
Why does alb have the best end regen class when hib was the only realm to get it in the first place.
Hib gets speed and end regen on the same class, freeing up a group spot for another class. Although *some* mid groups run without a skald so that kinda screws that theory up
Why do SM pets intercept upto 70% of attacks (if your lucky) when no other pet class's pet does.
Well chanters get a pet that can heal, caba's get a pet that can disease, at least SM pets cant be used to interupt as they need to be near the SM to intercept.
Why do Clerics get a spec AF which equates to 10-15% less melee damage taken when neither shaman's or druids do.
Alb is the *defensive* realm
Why do druids and healers get haste buffs?Why do healers have ae stun when no other realm has it.
Healers are overpowered
nah not really, i cant think of one for this but tbh ae stun is not that useful in rvr.and most importantly.... Why do Savages hit so bloody hard when no other class does ;p
Savage is overpowered
Anyway lets not get off topic I know what your saying, but castable stun on a damage dealing class is pretty damn annoying.
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Kaireem
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- #51
what he said ^^
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tildson
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- #52
Hibs are viable due to GP, the major reason
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Asha
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- #53
agree
pls look at what a sad sad thing an ice wiz (or any wiz spec) is compaired to a chanter, eld, or sm. Alb just has too many casting classes/spec lines with too little utility. doubt they ever fix it.
add in things like GP, Baod, aoe insta stunn, the pet army....
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Aussie-
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- #54
because they were so stupid to think this would be on par with instamez and insta amnesia :great:
aye, lowest range of all realm, best :great:
because mythic knew mids are alarmclockraider who cant play without their 20% ?
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xianghua
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- #55
much better setup than using chanter anyways only thing you would miss is the pet.
~~Excalibur~~
Seltir lvl 50 Healer r6lx <Jack Herer>
Hatchetdwarf lvl 50 Skald r6lx <inactive>
~~Prydwen~~
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Xianghua lvl 50 Heroine r7lx <inactive>
Nookah lvl 50 Chanter r3lx <inactive>
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Vodor
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- #56
I don't see how any alb tank group could "easily" beat a good pbae group.
In fact I'd be surprised if DH have ever suffered a loss to any alb tank groups FG vs FG
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liloe
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- #57
I'd say Garbannoch knows what he's talking about =) and tbh, I think having a manachanter in grp never hurts, not only cause of BAoD, but it's also the pet and don't forget an RvR specced chanter will have his lower DPS spell to interrupt (watch Bitteliten in the DH video). So heat debuff is just a nice addition to the line to give manachanters some nice DD, cause else the line would be totally useless with overwhelming 2 spells (PBAE + focus), compared to other pbae classes (except supp sm, treated below).
Therefore I think supp SM's should get some kind of DD spell in their specline to give them more utility, but anyways, does anyone think Mythic will care about this? They're just doing what they want, giving ppl the impression that the TL's can actually change something, where in reality they're just a kind of better bug reporters (imho) and might from time to time give Mythic ideas they can think about eventually (imho).
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lac_desariel
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- #58
I was thinking about this whole Caster (mainly PBAE) thing the other day, then this tread came to notice, heres me views if you care for them
Hib get stun, Wizz get Root, Mid SM if my memory is right get a mezz and root
as to what i prefere, well.. stun is limited for duration and if you been slamed it dont do shit, Root can hold for a while nic`e CC but limited in the fact you can still cast.. SM get a mezz to me this is good but as the first mezz battle shuld be done and dusted will it stick? all have pros and cons and tbh I cant remeber the last time Blit Garb or domain Stuned me bofore killing me.
the Delve on pbae, as we all know alb and hib have the same mid have a little but not much more, ive chatted to a mate about this and we both came up with the Alb pbae should get the greater delve for 2 reasons, Ice wizz other than chanter has no utility over the other pbae classes, and yet the 'Wizard' gave up all utility for power, just a thought
the running of a pbae group imo is more to do with if its viable not the pbae casters them selfs example and say if im wrong plz..
Alb will need the extra caster (sorc) for CC over both there mid and hib counterparts, Bard and healer, how ever i belive cleric is best suited to look after this casters with bof, ofc other stuff helps aoe stun sos boad list goes on
Hib get stun, Wizz get Root, Mid SM if my memory is right get a mezz and root
as to what i prefere, well.. stun is limited for duration and if you been slamed it dont do shit, Root can hold for a while nic`e CC but limited in the fact you can still cast.. SM get a mezz to me this is good but as the first mezz battle shuld be done and dusted will it stick? all have pros and cons and tbh I cant remeber the last time Blit Garb or domain Stuned me bofore killing me.
the Delve on pbae, as we all know alb and hib have the same mid have a little but not much more, ive chatted to a mate about this and we both came up with the Alb pbae should get the greater delve for 2 reasons, Ice wizz other than chanter has no utility over the other pbae classes, and yet the 'Wizard' gave up all utility for power, just a thought
the running of a pbae group imo is more to do with if its viable not the pbae casters them selfs example and say if im wrong plz..
Alb will need the extra caster (sorc) for CC over both there mid and hib counterparts, Bard and healer, how ever i belive cleric is best suited to look after this casters with bof, ofc other stuff helps aoe stun sos boad list goes on
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Stallion-
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- #59
ok so noaim^^ helped me get on pellinor server and try a chanter with 345 dex, -19% casting speed, mota 2, casting time is insane.. and it can get better with mota3 another -6% and about 360 dex... ill just say OMG!
did some pb tries... theres usaly 18 pbs per power bar... and it took me 18 secs to empty it on 18 pbs.. so about 1 sec per pb... but dont forget... it can prolly get down all the way to ~0.85 secs _remembeR_ this is on 2.6 delve spell....
about the debuffs...
Heat:
11% base went down to -20%
37% (red resist buff) went down to -7%
57% (switched equipment and red heat buff) went down to +13%
with 26% base resists all dropped down to -5%...
didnt look further for the duration of the debuffs, but all I can say is it wont be much noticable with current casting speed..the chanter had 4 light so variance sucked.. but tbh theres not much difference
thank to noaim^^ for letting me try this... not much is changed... chanters will stil have easy mode.. more will be required of em....
did some pb tries... theres usaly 18 pbs per power bar... and it took me 18 secs to empty it on 18 pbs.. so about 1 sec per pb... but dont forget... it can prolly get down all the way to ~0.85 secs _remembeR_ this is on 2.6 delve spell....
about the debuffs...
Heat:
11% base went down to -20%
37% (red resist buff) went down to -7%
57% (switched equipment and red heat buff) went down to +13%
with 26% base resists all dropped down to -5%...
didnt look further for the duration of the debuffs, but all I can say is it wont be much noticable with current casting speed..the chanter had 4 light so variance sucked.. but tbh theres not much difference
thank to noaim^^ for letting me try this... not much is changed... chanters will stil have easy mode.. more will be required of em....
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Stallion-
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- #60
not enough thou
BTW got it all logged if any1 would be intressted in it..
EDIT: but really.. this dosent nerf chanter.. it would if not for ToA new bonuses... so there by.. casters in general get boosted while chanters r at the same level.. so so imo mages realm wide get boosted..
BTW got it all logged if any1 would be intressted in it..
EDIT: but really.. this dosent nerf chanter.. it would if not for ToA new bonuses... so there by.. casters in general get boosted while chanters r at the same level.. so
so imo mages realm wide get boosted..