Defence of the Realm

Snarks

Fledgling Freddie
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100
Does it exist in Albion?

Quite frankly I don't think it does. Last night I was in a group helping a real life friend complete some of the paladin epics in Frontiers and came across a Mid group who ganked our group or left us (me) to a mezzed xp death by Hoary Worm which was already attacking me (we did our best to defend but were just overwhelmed by them). Most of us were around the 44 to 46 range with the paladin at 49 and a lvl 50 necro. All around was copious kill spam by Hibbies or Mids but very little from Albs. When we checked it seemed that there was a rather large contingent of people in Emain (80+) but very few in our own frontiers. Fair enough a fair few people could have been /anon but the lack of Alb killspam suggested that there was a small number of people trying to defend our keeps under attack. But hey no all of a sudden we took a Hib keep but it was about as much use as a chocolate teapot because we were 2 or our own keeps down and therefore DF was a long way off.

Is Albion so fecked up that certain guilds would rather spend time taking keeps that were fairly useless to us in Hibbie Land instead of defending :confused: Remember we are Albs (Britons, Avalonians, Highlanders, Inconnu, Saracens) not freaking Hibbies (Firbys, Luris, Celts etc). Get off your rp whore arses and try and defend your own realm properly first before invading some two bit tree hugging land.

A big grats to Humberton Guard for being of sound enough mind to actually attempt and successfully retake one of our keeps :cheers: It nice to see at least someone is defending the realm :)
 

Snarks

Fledgling Freddie
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Fedaykin said:
roleplayer?
Do I sound like a frikkin roleplayer?

2 Alb held hibbie keeps <minus> 3 Enemy held Alb keeps <is not equal to> Darkness Falls
 

Night

Fledgling Freddie
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Dec 23, 2003
Messages
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Albs dont care about their frontier unless we have relics, some people have the view its a waste of time and money (plats to repair doors and buy rams) to retake keeps.
 

Glottis

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People do not have to take Dun Crim in Emain for DF...
Maybe we took it for alliance rp bonus.
A lot of Albs do not care much for DF, not close to how obsessed Midgard is with it. And so the chance of having DF when Albion does not have the relics after some retarded Mid alarm clock raid is quite small.
There is little rvr in HW compared to Emain, it has allways been like that.
Attempts to improve it have been futile.
Why bitch at other Albs when you yourself did not retake keeps?
Regards, Glottis
 

Votan

Fledgling Freddie
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Feb 6, 2004
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235
Well its not so much DF that i'm worried about but more the image that Albion conveys in maintaining and protecting its own keeps/frontier. As an Alb player i do find it (very) embarrassing to see the enemy realm(s) hold more of our keeps then we ourselves do :eek2:


I think that Albs needs a good..... :touch:
 

Snarks

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Glottis said:
People do not have to take Dun Crim in Emain for DF...
Maybe we took it for alliance rp bonus.
A lot of Albs do not care much for DF, not close to how obsessed Midgard is with it.
Funny how when we do have DF that there's a mad rush to get to it.

And so the chance of having DF when Albion does not have the relics after some retarded Mid alarm clock raid is quite small.
Since when was Emain in Midgard? Why not try capturing Mid keeps instead of Hib ones then.

There is little rvr in HW compared to Emain, it has allways been like that.
Attempts to improve it have been futile.
Perhaps if people stopped porting to Emain all the time and ran to HW there would be more activity as Hibs and Mids would have to port to Alb frontier?

Why bitch at other Albs when you yourself did not retake keeps?
5 Albs (mainly mid 40's with a lvl 49 Pala and lvl 50 Necro) RR2L1 or lower (I myself am RR1L8) ganked by 6 Mids of at least RR4. I was hugging dirt whilst waiting for res, 1 of our group made it to Surs and was trying to help. Basically we were underpowered for keep defence and were the highest members of our small guild online at the time.
 

Flimgoblin

It's my birthday today!
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Not everyone is after DF :) and not everyone cares about keeps these days - mainly because we have no relics noone feels there's any point in retaking.

I can sympathise with some of them - having tried to defend Renaris after 80 mids took benowyc, erasleigh, boldiam...

Despite there being ample warning (with the other 3 keeps falling), Renaris having level 10 doors and level 10 guards, and taking 30m at least for the mids to take - only one group arrived to help the 4 defenders valiantly trying to save the keep. 3fg with a trebuchet or an earth wiz woulda saved it - not many stealthers at all attacking (the 4 and later 12 defenders survived till they breached the doors).

But the keeps don't matter at the moment to most people so they'll not get defended or retaken, simple as that.

Given the rarity of enemies in hadrians wall or pennines it's rare for people to actively patrol there - I'll take the HG RvR group out there if we hear of enemies... but I'm not gonna camp an empty milegate for days on end.
 

Vodkafairy

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Snarks said:
Does it exist in Albion?

Quite frankly I don't think it does.
It nice to see at least someone is defending the realm
What's the point of defending your keeps when you don't have relics. The only reason to have keeps is DF for albs... If you enjoy action in and around keeps, go to mid or hib :/ Much more action.
 

Sycorax

Fledgling Freddie
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Feb 2, 2004
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Levels 44 to 49 trying to do their epics in the Penines, getting ganked by Mids who own 2 keeps there, and not a single other Alb was sighted on the trip.

And we still complain about people not showing up to defend keeps?

Our small guild would love to be able to retake the keeps ourselves, just need to get fit for the job first.

The point of the post is, not having our own frontiers weakens our realm in many ways.
 

Sendraks

Fledgling Freddie
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541
Sycorax is right. The point of this thread is not about DF, its about the Albion realm on Excalibur being seen to behave as a organised force in RvR. That means thinking both tactically and strategically about our approach to RvR combat.

If the posts on these forums, and Barryswhine, are to be believed, then Albion outnumbers the other realms. That means we have enough manpower to mount both an adequate defence and offense.

The excuse that, its not worth defending our own keeps because we don’t have the relics, is a rather sad and whiney one. Yes the Midgard breach of the alarm clock raid treaty was sad and pathetic and has caused its fair share or problems. But to be honest, we’re not going to get those relics back easily if Albion is not well practised in performing a defense of its frontier keeps when it is required to do so.

Take Monday night as an example. 140 Albs in Emain and we start losing our frontier keeps to paltry forces of Hibs and Mids. That’s embarrassing! The moment the first keep fell, Albs should’ve started pouring out of Emain and into our frontiers. That kind of force would’ve made short work of the enemy forces in that area and gotten our keeps back quickly. Hell, the entire 140 wouldn’t have had to go. Its not about camping the mile gates, its about having the wherewithal to redeploy our forces quickly, when the need arises.

If this realm continues to adopt this mentality, we will be totally stuffed when the new Frontiers arrive, as it won’t be possible to mount an effective offense against the enemy realms with our frontiers under their control. I hope when that time comes, that this realm has woken up and changed its approach to RvR.

What is the point in farming RPs in Emain if you are not going to defend your own realm properly, or at least encourage others to do so? What are these RPs for exactly?

Personally I think Frontiers should implement a massive RP penalty to any realm that does not fully control its own frontier. That would make people think twice about letting an enemy zerg their realm while they are camped out in emain.
 

Alithiel

Fledgling Freddie
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Messages
648
Quite frankly, what gives you the right to dictate how people play this game?

People in RvR guilds, oddly enough, play this game because they enjoy *gasp* RvR.

Not PvE.
Not Bashing on empty Keeps.
Not spending their money on upgrading the doors of a keep.
Not standing around for 30+ minutes while the crafters upgrade and repair the doors.

R v R

If we had some Relics to defend, then taking keeps in our own frontier would actually have some purpose. As it is, it's just a collosal waste of time for an RvR guild.

In both Midgard and Hibernia, PvE guilds organise keep takes to get themselves access to DF. They simply get together 4+fg of lvl 40+ characters and a few rams, and go out to have a bit of a laugh. Why is it that Albion PvE guilds expect the RvR guilds to do this for them, and whine when we don't? If you want DF, look for other people who also want DF and do something about it yourselves instead of expecting others to do it for you and chucking your toys out of your pram when they won't.

People play this game to have fun, and for an RvR guild fun = RvR. Sometimes this involves taking a keep, but not when said keep is empty and theres little risk of anyone coming to try and interfere with your siege.

If you want to see Albions defending their Realm, they need a reason to do so. And your selfish desire to have access to good exp is not enough of a reason to drag me, or anyone else, away from having fun in RvR.


Sorry for the rant, but I get sick and tired of people preaching about 'Relam Defence' when all they want is DF access so they can line their pockets!
 

Gregorian

Fledgling Freddie
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Jan 27, 2004
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75
Sendraks said:
What are these RPs for exactly?
its called RAs.
u know, those yummy things that help u defend/attack keeps when there is actually summin to defend in castle excalibur ;)

and dont tell me about HW rvr - been there, done that, got bored, suicided.
 

Glottis

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1,025
Snarks said:
Funny how when we do have DF that there's a mad rush to get to it.
You won't see me in DF so often. Mids and Hibs actually organise groups of low lvl toons (non 50's) and go take keeps. When Albs had the relics, we defended each and every night. So much that the Mids noobs decided it was only fair to do a morning raid. But like someone else posted, and I said also, if you want DF, do it yourself. If you want to defend Alb keeps, do it yourself. People will defend once more once Albion get their relics back, and this defense will gradually get less and less. Typical story tbh.
Snarks said:
Since when was Emain in Midgard? Why not try capturing Mid keeps instead of Hib ones then.
Done this approach till the servers kept crashing every night for a week.
Mids don't have the population to do a prime time raid, but somehow they can bring enough to crash the server when Albs bring 200 or so to their frontier.
Snarks said:
Perhaps if people stopped porting to Emain all the time and ran to HW there would be more activity as Hibs and Mids would have to port to Alb frontier?
Like I said in my post, this has been tried, and tried. And besides the retarded Hibs and Mids giving comments like Albion cannot find their own frontier, etc, there where just no people showing up. Most people play this game for the rvr, so they will go to the place where they KNOW they will get rvr.
Snarks said:
5 Albs (mainly mid 40's with a lvl 49 Pala and lvl 50 Necro) RR2L1 or lower (I myself am RR1L8) ganked by 6 Mids of at least RR4. I was hugging dirt whilst waiting for res, 1 of our group made it to Surs and was trying to help. Basically we were underpowered for keep defence and were the highest members of our small guild online at the time.
I'm not saying you should keep take with a gimped group, but if you want to blaim other albs for not doing what they should do, why not do it yourself? Try to make groups, keep people interested while they have to hang around. Making a good group takes pretty long in Emain, let alone for a keep take that serves no purpose right now, except giving 200 Albs DF. Why don't all those Albs that go farm right away in DF to take keeps?
Regards, Glottis
 

Sendraks

Fledgling Freddie
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Alithiel said:
Quite frankly, what gives you the right to dictate how people play this game?
Nonewhat so ever! I wasn't dictating, thats an assumption on your part. Furthermore, I can't dictate how you play the game (nor can anyone else) because I cannot force you to do what I say or want. The fact that I would not wish to do such thing, pretty much makes it clear that you are not being dictated too, or given a mandate of any sort.

Alithiel said:
People in RvR guilds, oddly enough, play this game because they enjoy *gasp* RvR.
Stating the obvious is not an argument.

Alithiel said:
If we had some Relics to defend, then taking keeps in our own frontier would actually have some purpose. As it is, it's just a collosal waste of time for an RvR guild.
I disagree and I think for the entire realm, not just a few guilds, to be able to mount a cohesive offence and defence is the very essence of good RvR. There is a role for everyone here that could be considered "fun."

Alithiel said:
In both Midgard and Hibernia, PvE guilds organise keep takes to get themselves access to DF. They simply get together 4+fg of lvl 40+ characters and a few rams, and go out to have a bit of a laugh. Why is it that Albion PvE guilds expect the RvR guilds to do this for them, and whine when we don't? If you want DF, look for other people who also want DF and do something about it yourselves instead of expecting others to do it for you and chucking your toys out of your pram when they won't.
I wasn't aware that PvE guilds wanted or expected this. I don't consider myself to be in a PvE or RvR guild, just a guild that will try to do its best at everything. Again, you're making assumptions as to what we want, which are simply not true.

Alithiel said:
People play this game to have fun, and for an RvR guild fun = RvR. Sometimes this involves taking a keep, but not when said keep is empty and theres little risk of anyone coming to try and interfere with your siege.
I agree, but this is only one aspect of RvR, not a catch all definition.

Alithiel said:
If you want to see Albions defending their Realm, they need a reason to do so. And your selfish desire to have access to good exp is not enough of a reason to drag me, or anyone else, away from having fun in RvR.
I want to see Albion defending their realm because thats what Albion is supposed to be doing. That was is what part of RvR is supposed to about, or so I was lead to believe when I purchased said game. This is not about a selfish desire for xp (assumption or your part again), but a desire for all of Albion to work sensibly together, for everyone's benefit

That sounds a good deal less selfish than just wanting to farm RPs.

Alithiel said:
Sorry for the rant, but I get sick and tired of people preaching about 'Relam Defence' when all they want is DF access so they can line their pockets!
I don't care that much about DF to be honest. Its good for a laugh and all, but there is plenty of xp and cash to be gained elsewhere. DF isn't the issue here so there isn't any point in trying to use this as a foil in your debate.

Right now I think Albions approach to RvR is lacklustre and not what it could be. I think this can change without sacrificing anyone's "fun." It just requires a little organisation and thought.
 

Night

Fledgling Freddie
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Organise something then, the 130 albs in emain is not even half the population Alb can get into rvr.
 

Alithiel

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Just for the record, my previous post was aimed at the original poster...

Sendraks said:
I think for the entire realm, not just a few guilds, to be able to mount a cohesive offence and defence is the very essence of good RvR. There is a role for everyone here that could be considered "fun."
I agree... the point is that at the moment theres nothing to defend!


I wasn't aware that PvE guilds wanted or expected this. I don't consider myself to be in a PvE or RvR guild, just a guild that will try to do its best at everything. Again, you're making assumptions as to what we want, which are simply not true.
So why is it that whenever we don't have keeps we always get the 'RvR Guilds don't defend their own Realm! Whaaaaaah!' posts?

I want to see Albion defending their realm because thats what Albion is supposed to be doing. That was is what part of RvR is supposed to about, or so I was lead to believe when I purchased said game. This is not about a selfish desire for xp (assumption or your part again), but a desire for all of Albion to work sensibly together, for everyone's benefit
Snarks said:
2 Alb held hibbie keeps <minus> 3 Enemy held Alb keeps <is not equal to> Darkness Falls
I rest my case...

That sounds a good deal less selfish than just wanting to farm RPs.
I don't RvR to farm RP's, I RvR for fun... my RP total is a reflection of how much fun I have in RvR.


I don't care that much about DF to be honest. Its good for a laugh and all, but there is plenty of xp and cash to be gained elsewhere. DF isn't the issue here so there isn't any point in trying to use this as a foil in your debate.
Snarks said:
2 Alb held hibbie keeps <minus> 3 Enemy held Alb keeps <is not equal to> Darkness Falls
Again, I rest my case...

Right now I think Albions approach to RvR is lacklustre and not what it could be. I think this can change without sacrificing anyone's "fun." It just requires a little organisation and thought.
As soon as someone organises, and successfully carries out a Relic Raid, Defending the Frontier will become fun again.
 

stighelmer

Fledgling Freddie
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Jan 20, 2004
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255
Alithiel said:
As soon as someone organises, and successfully carries out a Relic Raid, Defending the Frontier will become fun again.
give herbal and lac to save us all :clap:
 

Snarks

Fledgling Freddie
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100
Alithiel said:
Just for the record, my previous post was aimed at the original poster...
Granted I am being slightly selfish here with wanting DF but hey I have a quest I wish to complete that's clogging up my journal, and I also have some Seals to spend so that one of my guild can salvage some armor and use it increase their Weapon/Armor crafting skills.

So why is it that whenever we don't have keeps we always get the 'RvR Guilds don't defend their own Realm! Whaaaaaah!' posts?
Why is that RvR guilds don't think defending a home frontier keep whilst it's under attack is important?

I don't RvR to farm RP's, I RvR for fun... my RP total is a reflection of how much fun I have in RvR.
Would RvR be much fun for a lvl 44 char RR1L8 if I spent 90% of the time hugging dirt?

As soon as someone organises, and successfully carries out a Relic Raid, Defending the Frontier will become fun again.
Oh haven't the RvR guilds arranged this already :eek2:
or is it cos I'm in a smallish guild that obviously is only good for cannon fodder and retaking undefended home frontier keeps that we weren't made aware of the previous raid attempts until a) the relics needed defending in Excal or b) attempts to recapture relics were causing zone crashes? :m00:
 

Snarks

Fledgling Freddie
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Night said:
Organise something then, the 130 albs in emain is not even half the population Alb can get into rvr.
Once I've upgraded my laggy Athlon 1gig, 256mb ram, GeForce 2 comp I may well do just that.
 

Sendraks

Fledgling Freddie
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Alithiel, my apologies for misinterpreting the direction of your comments.

I think if the Realm has a more organised approached to RvR, more people would get involved as a wider range of tastes would be accounted for. Not everyone wants to zerg in emain, in the same way that you don't want to spend time retaking empty keeps. I quite see your point of view.

Both aspects need to be encouraged, but right now Albion only seems to favour one approach, which I don’t imagine is everyone’s idea of fun. People will go with the crowd, because they think that’s the only way to get RPs.

Getting a big ass relic raid organised, if that helps motivate people to help defend the frontiers, would be good. But can it be done without crashing the servers?

Alternatively, will it take a few guilds to set an example by actively defending and retaking frontier keeps on a regular basis to motivate the wider RvR community to a more well rounded approach?
 

Flimgoblin

It's my birthday today!
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If you really want to help albion and get keeps back you'll have to start organising the retakes yourself.
Set a cg, get some rams. Doesn't take a level 50 or a RR5 to do that.

People will help maybe not a huge amount but 4fg is all you need;)

but if you just stand in sauvage /y CANT SOMEONE TAKE BACK OUR KEEPS

little will happen I'm afraid.
 

Parlain

Fledgling Freddie
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Dec 22, 2003
Messages
97
Snarks said:
Does it exist in Albion?
No

Snarks said:
Does it exist in Albion?
Is Albion so fecked up that certain guilds would rather spend time taking keeps that were fairly useless to us in Hibbie Land instead of defending
Yes

Snarks said:
Get off your rp whore arses and try and defend your own realm properly first before invading some two bit tree hugging land.
Great motivation there; I think I'll go park my rp whore arse back in Emain, having gone through an enitre 99% jamabya's durability from hitting keep doors in my time (afaik that's a good hundred hours in front of a door)

Snarks said:
A big grats to Humberton Guard for being of sound enough mind to actually attempt and successfully retake one of our keeps
Fing rules \o/

Now for some constructive advice.

There is nothing stopping you TRYING to organise your own keeptakes, if you believe that there are people out there who want the same thing you do, why not try asking them to do it? Or could it possibly be the fact they they see it as pointless and not fun?

Without relics what is the point of keeps, getting access to DF? Ok fine, then those people who want DF can organise a force to go and take the requistie keeps to obtain access

With a couple of rams even in this day and age keeps can be taken by a fg of 8 (if all 50) if they know what they are doing - what too hard for you to gather 7 other people to make rams then have the right mix to be able to survive against an unguarded lv 10 keep (that is if it's claimed, unclaimed keeps can be trio'ed :m00:)

Why don't "other" people get off thier asses and help blah blah woof woof

Because we don't want to
Because we don't need to
And because while we could take a keep in less than 5 mins with 2fg and 6 rams we can't be bothered to spend 2 hours doing the prep for it when we get ungrateful gits who spend all their time doing something else only to have alts parked at the entrance to DF to joyously rush in and take advatage of someone else's work and Yes it IS work as 75% of the ALb population don't have printed maps and couldn't find thier way to Boldiam if a porn star was waiting there in the four poster bed waiting to give them the time of thier life

Before you go whining and pointing fingers at the realm remeber that realm defence starts at home; and realm defence infers that the realm has something to defend.

Which it doesn't

Which means the only reason to retake keeps is DF

You think that the people who are taking our keeps are doing it for any other reason than a grp of people have made a cg and said you wanna take some keeps and open DF? They aren;t expecting that many people to rush and defend or do some RvR because they IS nothing to defend

Why don't organised keep retakes happen in Albion? Because people like you prefer to come and bitch on a board about it rather than take some time to organise. Those who do generally tend to be kindly slighty eccentric souls (Fing :m00:) who know that they are doing and know how to gather people around them to do so.

Make sure you know what to do and how to do it fast.
Make sure you have the right tools
And above all, take a course in making friends and influencing people; it will do you more good than flaming the population of Alb and putting the backs up of anyone you try to ask to help you keeptake in the future, if you ever do.

P.S. to Noret. You still have those screenshots when you me and Fin put rams on the lords while taking keeps as a 3 at 4am in the morning? :m00:
 

Reno

One of Freddy's beloved
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Dec 23, 2003
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967
Kenshee Himura said:
Please learn whenever we dont have relics albs wont bother to defend keeps.
When every hibs are on a keep taking spree in albion, we often bump into the Tb caster group.
I wonder what they're doing there. :wub:

Danita
 

Arindra

Fledgling Freddie
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163
Snarks said:
Is Albion so fecked up that certain guilds would rather spend time taking keeps that were fairly useless to us in Hibbie Land instead of defending :confused: Remember we are Albs (Britons, Avalonians, Highlanders, Inconnu, Saracens) not freaking Hibbies (Firbys, Luris, Celts etc). Get off your rp whore arses and try and defend your own realm properly first before invading some two bit tree hugging land.
First point....

'Enemy' keeps are more useful to us than pennines keeps when we have no relics. Anyone ignoring 'home' keeps in order to take hibgard keeps is doing exactly the right thing.

Second point....

If you are going to rp, then you should note that the lore tells us that this is a war - so naturally from an alb point of view it's *all* alb territory; albs in emain are defending alb territory just as much as those in Hadrian's wall. Because it's *all* alb territory.

Even Tir-na-fricking-nog.
 

Draylor

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Snarks said:
But hey no all of a sudden we took a Hib keep but it was about as much use as a chocolate teapot because we were 2 or our own keeps down and therefore DF was a long way off.
Actually taking that keep (Crim) served its purpose perfectly - it had absolutely nothing to do with DF.

Personally I detest DF - so while we have no relics I have no reason to retake our keeps. Ive done it a few hundred times already - theres far more enjoyable ways to spend the time.

Threads like this do nothing to persuade people to help - if anything they lead to more people not bothering.
 

Arindra

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Why don't organised keep retakes happen in Albion? Because people like you prefer to come and bitch on a board about it rather than take some time to organise.
And of course, because we have Avalon City.
 

Alithiel

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648
Snarks said:
Why is that RvR guilds don't think defending a home frontier keep whilst it's under attack is important?
In the time it takes to get to a home frontier keep which is under attack, it has already fallen and the besiegers have buggered off back to Hadrian's Wall to suicide and go to DF.

Would RvR be much fun for a lvl 44 char RR1L8 if I spent 90% of the time hugging dirt?
This may sound harsh, but spend a couple of days in Avalon City to get to level 50 before you try any serious RvR, perhaps?

Oh haven't the RvR guilds arranged this already :eek2:
We tried, we repeatedly crashed the server... now we bide our time and let our enemy develop a false sense of security. Standard military tactics...

or is it cos I'm in a smallish guild that obviously is only good for cannon fodder and retaking undefended home frontier keeps that we weren't made aware of the previous raid attempts until a) the relics needed defending in Excal or b) attempts to recapture relics were causing zone crashes? :m00:
The size of your guild is no excuse. Join an alliance. If no-one wants you in their alliance, find some other small guilds and make your own.
 

Asha

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Flimgoblin said:
I can sympathise with some of them - having tried to defend Renaris after 80 mids took benowyc, erasleigh, boldiam...

Despite there being ample warning (with the other 3 keeps falling), Renaris having level 10 doors and level 10 guards, and taking 30m at least for the mids to take - only one group arrived to help the 4 defenders valiantly trying to save the keep. 3fg with a trebuchet or an earth wiz woulda saved it - not many stealthers at all attacking (the 4 and later 12 defenders survived till they breached the doors).
If you're talking about when BF lost it, it as 64 attackers. There were 30 some Albs in our frontiers who couldn't be arsed to move. We are a very small guild and had 5 ppl online, all of whom came to defend. This is why I laugh when I read about ppl bitching about RvR guilds not leaving emain. You're just making assumptions that you know nothing about. Considering how little help we got, why should we spend 3 hours and several plats to fully repair and upgrade doors to 10, plus our guild BP to keep guards at lvl 10 when we're expected to defend that with 5 ppl. We don't need DF. We don't enjoy hitting guards or repairing doors and moving wood. There is no bonus to our game fun to do this, yet we're told it's not enough when we do do it.

I am tired of people expecting the rvr guilds to do all the boring tedious work for "the realm". If you want keeps, go get them. If you want to PvE in the frontiers, bring some lvl 50 friends. If you want DF, get the keeps. Stop trying to tell other people how to play. Not everyone wants to play as a realm, some people just want to play with a few friends. There is no point except DF and PvE in frontiers to getting Alb keeps right now. It's a waste of time, money, and resources to get keeps w/o relics.
 

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