DAOC2 Petition

[xomer]

A remake of Daoc is pointless as hell imo.

 

[Raven]

Bioware are now EA and slowly getting flushed down the toilet like every other company swallowed by them. The new Star Wars game will be terrible btw.

If there was a DAOC2 then I would like it to have absolutely nothing to do with EA at all, ever.

 

[Everz]

Best to enjoy it as it is, there won't be another like it for a long time. Shame, MMO was once a great niche market.

 

[megadave]

one of us needs to get super rich and fund it

get earning people!

 

[Billargh]

Bioware are now EA and slowly getting flushed down the toilet like every other company swallowed by them. The new Star Wars game will be terrible btw.

If there was a DAOC2 then I would like it to have absolutely nothing to do with EA at all, ever.

Only cause it's an MMO, and a decent one hasn't been released in so long. And this will never do anything, thank god, I'd like to keep my nostalgic memories!

 

[CorNokZ]

one of us needs to get super rich and fund it

get earning people!

*starts taking uni seriously*

 

[GReaper]

People (and Mythic themselves) also said that Dawn of Camelot would happen - it got as far as a drawingboard and then was scrapped. It will never happen because it simply wouldn't be profitable to develope it.

If they concentrated on Dawn of Camelot instead of wasting millions on WAR, it probably could've been profitable at the time.

They already had a server engine which could cope with thousands of players, they already had a game client. Both of which would need improvements to create a highly successful sequel for modern standards (nobody should ever have to use a slash command, performance should scale all the way back down to low end machines, etc.). But the cost of investment would probably be significantly lower than the entire WAR franchise.

They had a huge amount of existing lore from DAoC, plenty of existing art assets, zones/dungeons, classes/races. I'm sure the vast majority of players would be happy to see the existing mainland zones taken from DAoC, given a WoW style Cataclysm change according to the new storyline. It just feels like they've got a base which they could take, then change it to turn it into a prequel.

If they'd learned from the mistakes of DAoC, improved on it without turning it into the game they thought it could've become (city siege is just an awful idea), then it could've had a chance at being successful.

 

[ford prefect]

If they concentrated on Dawn of Camelot instead of wasting millions on WAR, it probably could've been profitable at the time.......

All very true, but Warhammer was a proven franchise and should, by any reasonable developer, have been a gold mine. Sadly it wasn't and it was all politics and bullshit.

Regardless, Dawn of Camelot would never have been viable for EA to take on given DAoC's relatively modest subscriber base when you are trying to create something to slay the might WoW. Mythic simply weren't in a strong enough financial position to create Dawn on their own, largely due to their own marketing mistakes with DAoC. If anything, they would have had to scale back further if EA hadn't come along with WAR. The only real benefit from the EA fiasco was that it probably bought Mythic and DAoC a few more years of life.

EA being, well EA will have walked away from Warhammer with a small lesson learned and smelling of roses, but I doubt any big software house would touch mythic now to do a joint development. You would need a mad entrepreneur with big brass cannonballs and $20 million to invest in the place, the worlds best PR engine and perhaps more importantly, you would need creative lightening to strike twice - to say it is unlikely to happen is an understatement.

 

[liloe]

Sell it to Blizzard, success guaranteed

 

[Dvaerg]

Sell it to Blizzard, success guaranteed

That was a joke i guess?

 

[Raven]

Why would it be? They are the of the only companies to make a successful MMO in the last 10 years...Indeed, the most successful MMO of all time. Love it or hate it, subscriber figures don't lie.

Oh and as a little aside, WoW celebrated its 6th birthday this week, is still going and isn't even close to being in decline. When DAOC was 6 years old it was pretty much all over.

 

[xomer]

Why would it be? They are the of the only companies to make a successful MMO in the last 10 years...Indeed, the most successful MMO of all time. Love it or hate it, subscriber figures don't lie.

Oh and as a little aside, WoW celebrated its 6th birthday this week, is still going and isn't even close to being in decline. When DAOC was 6 years old it was pretty much all over.

this quest game maybe its the most successful mmo of all times but not the best .

 

[ford prefect]

The only reason Blzzard would get involved with Mythic is to buy the rights to DAoC during the liquidation process, so they could bury them in a filing cabinate somewhere.

 

[liloe]

Why would it be? They are the of the only companies to make a successful MMO in the last 10 years...Indeed, the most successful MMO of all time. Love it or hate it, subscriber figures don't lie.

Oh and as a little aside, WoW celebrated its 6th birthday this week, is still going and isn't even close to being in decline. When DAOC was 6 years old it was pretty much all over.

Aye, that's 100% the truth =) They have what, more than 12 million subscribers? I think DAoC at it's best didn't even have one million.

Besides. WoW used to be terrible, I agree, but at the moment I'm quite enjoying it. Sure, most of it is due to my guild, but hey, that's nothing bad =) The focus has gone from 40ppl to 25ppl and now to 10ppl raids, which is gonna make most forms of grouping much more dynamic. At the same time they introduce new stuff for guilds, which will bind players to them again. Both smart for them and cool for the players.

Let's face it. The storylines in WoW are simply awesome and that's what makes the game interesting. Quests in DAoC are more or less boring, when you spend ages looking for some crappy NPC and you always have the impression that what you've just done is more or less meaningless for the world.
Most zones in WoW have a coherent storyline, which is not so much the case in DAoC, making the quests kinda boring.

 

[xomer]

Aye, that's 100% the truth =) They have what, more than 12 million subscribers? I think DAoC at it's best didn't even have one million.

Besides. WoW used to be terrible, I agree, but at the moment I'm quite enjoying it. Sure, most of it is due to my guild, but hey, that's nothing bad =) The focus has gone from 40ppl to 25ppl and now to 10ppl raids, which is gonna make most forms of grouping much more dynamic. At the same time they introduce new stuff for guilds, which will bind players to them again. Both smart for them and cool for the players.

Let's face it. The storylines in WoW are simply awesome and that's what makes the game interesting. Quests in DAoC are more or less boring, when you spend ages looking for some crappy NPC and you always have the impression that what you've just done is more or less meaningless for the world.
Most zones in WoW have a coherent storyline, which is not so much the case in DAoC, making the quests kinda boring.

tell me.

what's the best ?

Daoc or Wow ?

 

[liloe]

tell me.

what's the best ?

Daoc or Wow ?

Well I've played DAoC since release and my game experience has changed a LOT during those times. First everything was new, I met new friends (my guild Terra Dominus), but I wasn't successful at the game itself. I think in my first months I didn't even get past lvl 14 (but I got to 400 fletching ^^). At times I was really angry at how shit the bow mechanics were, but I went on because of the people I knew and because exploring the world was kinda fun as well.

Then I started a bard as alt and well, leveling became much easier. I got him to 50 and started RvR, which was REALLY nice - that was already SI. I made a template and then I played because of the RvR. To be honest, since then leveling was more or less something to be done quickly to be able to RvR afterwards. The quest and story system itself was - and is - really bad.

I started WoW like 3 months ago and exploring the world was simply wonderful. The quests are surely some kind of repetitive, but the story behind is really cool. On Alliance side, I had a guild from start with old Excal people and of course that made finding friends very easy. On Horde side I knew nobody and joined a social guild, which was pretty funny as well.

So to conclude, I can't say which game is better, because when I played them, I loved them both, even if it was for different things. I know the strong and the weak points of both games and DAoC has undoubtedly the best PvP system, but also a problematic balance in that case. WoW has cooler PvE and a more versatile class design, but the PvP isn't that good and I found the community to be a little less friendly overall. Also, being bad at playing your class instantly shows in the small groups and is generally not tolerated. That was more relaxed in DAoC PvE imho.

 

[xomer]

Well I've played DAoC since release and my game experience has changed a LOT during those times. First everything was new, I met new friends (my guild Terra Dominus), but I wasn't successful at the game itself. I think in my first months I didn't even get past lvl 14 (but I got to 400 fletching ^^). At times I was really angry at how shit the bow mechanics were, but I went on because of the people I knew and because exploring the world was kinda fun as well.

Then I started a bard as alt and well, leveling became much easier. I got him to 50 and started RvR, which was REALLY nice - that was already SI. I made a template and then I played because of the RvR. To be honest, since then leveling was more or less something to be done quickly to be able to RvR afterwards. The quest and story system itself was - and is - really bad.

I started WoW like 3 months ago and exploring the world was simply wonderful. The quests are surely some kind of repetitive, but the story behind is really cool. On Alliance side, I had a guild from start with old Excal people and of course that made finding friends very easy. On Horde side I knew nobody and joined a social guild, which was pretty funny as well.

So to conclude, I can't say which game is better, because when I played them, I loved them both, even if it was for different things. I know the strong and the weak points of both games and DAoC has undoubtedly the best PvP system, but also a problematic balance in that case. WoW has cooler PvE and a more versatile class design, but the PvP isn't that good and I found the community to be a little less friendly overall. Also, being bad at playing your class instantly shows in the small groups and is generally not tolerated. That was more relaxed in DAoC PvE imho.

your answer is very respectfull.

You gave your points, and you are correct at many things.

Personally, Wow was the worst mmo that i have ever played. So many quests, no friendly ppl at all (at least in the server that i played), very Mickey Mouse characters (yes its kinda strange but i love more daoc graphics than WoW) and PvP shit at all.

I really think that Blizzard's name made Wow so spectacular, and not the quality and action of it.

 

[liloe]

So many quests, no friendly ppl at all (at least in the server that i played)(1.), very Mickey Mouse characters (yes its kinda strange but i love more daoc graphics than WoW)(2.) and PvP shit at all (3.).

I really think that Blizzard's name made Wow so spectacular, and not the quality and action of it.(4.)

1. I have to agree, that a lot of players are unfriendly. Group size is 5 people and if your healer or your tank is bad, you will die. The game is centred around PvE and if you're bad at it, the sometimes pretty hard special abilities will kill you. At least the dungeons in WoW have no place for people who just love to play around a bit. In a DAoC raid you can just ress up if people die and then go on. In WoW a bad move of any player is much more penalised, which sooner or later bring out the worst in people. It's not a problem in a guild where everybody knows what to do, but it's a problem when playing with "casuals".

2. It's really funny that you write this, because that was also my first impression when I saw WoW at release. The graphics reminded me of War3, which I didn't like so much. I still think that DAoC has the better engine, but it's sad that Mythic didn't use its full potential.

Let's compare Darkshore in WoW with Myrkwood Forest in DAoC. In my opinion they're both marvellously designed, with the high trees, the small pathes, the huts etc. I always loved Myrkwood Forest and it shows Mythic's potential. Overall, Midgard is very beautiful, but now let's have a look at the Hibernian mainland and compare it to the human zones in WoW. Hibernia is just a lot of green with forests etc. and while the architecture is great, it lacks the small farms with NPCs, guard towers, etc. Briefly said: it lacks life. Elwynn Forest and Westfall on the other hand are filled with small details, even though they're just "normal" land.

The same can be said for the addons. Tur Suil looks great and so does Galladoria and when it comes to outdoor zones, both Midgard and Albion have a nice design with little outposts etc. The problem with addons Mythic had was, that in the end, there was only a bit of end-game content. In WoW you had to get 10 more levels, which was ONLY possible in the new lands, so you had to explore them, do the quests there and thus be part of the story. In Shrouded Isles, people mostly did the 45-50 quests to ding faster and then went to the new dungeons - the Ogre dungeon in Alb looks shit, btw

With Trials of Atlantis, things completely changed. The content was more or less level 50 only and thus had to be explored by all players. The ToA areas are simply stunning, no matter where you go. The only problem was, that ToA was unfair. WoW is a lot of grinding as well, but ToA was unfair grinding, due to endless respawns instead of instances and no integrated loot roll system. That and the shear OTT abilities made ToA be a fail in player's eyes. But design wise, the game really got a lot better. Catacombs had some beautiful zones, even though some lacked detail (hello endless red Mars landscapes and the crappy looking start of Darkspire). Darkness Rising was kinda cool as well and Labyrinth of the Minotaur is stunning as well. The labyrinth has so many little details that make it really beautiful. Different themes with revolving cog wheels, roots, lianas etc.

Man I'm writing and writing =) But what I want to say is, that DAoC had the possibilities, but the designers didn't take their chances and failed to create a living and homogenous world.

3. No comment on that one ^^ The idea of battlegrounds with different themes is rather cool, though.

4. Hm, hard to tell. I think WoW keeps players because there's always a little something more to do. In DAoC you're 50 and SCd and you go to RvR. The only thing to do is get RPs and work on your keep or tower takes. In WoW you can do hundreds of achievements that give titles, mounts, pets, etc. so if you're bored with one thing, you can just work on that. Sounds stupid, but it works and I like the achievements as well =)

Hehehe, sorry again to write so much, but I just love writing

 

[xomer]

1. Hehehe, sorry again to write so much, but I just love writing

i loved your post.

1 rep for ya.

 

[Coldbeard]

10 million subscribers or what not, I'd take DAoC over WoW anytime.

 

[Marc]

Why would it be? They are the of the only companies to make a successful MMO in the last 10 years...Indeed, the most successful MMO of all time. Love it or hate it, subscriber figures don't lie.

Oh and as a little aside, WoW celebrated its 6th birthday this week, is still going and isn't even close to being in decline. When DAOC was 6 years old it was pretty much all over.

Whilst not in decline, its subscriber numbers are declining. In fact, only EVE Online has subscriber levels increasing and its 8 years old (not counting MMORPGs that have recently been launched ofc). But eve caters for a certain type of gamer so they have a niche in that respect wheras WOW has plenty of competition.

 

[xomer]

But the strange thing is that Daoc Pvp even with only 3000 players (and for sure the 50% is not in rvr zones) in all realms seems overcrowed as hell..

I dont think that you can see a proper 1 vs 1 nowdays

 

[Iceforge]

your answer is very respectfull.

You gave your points, and you are correct at many things.

Personally, Wow was the worst mmo that i have ever played. So many quests, no friendly ppl at all (at least in the server that i played), very Mickey Mouse characters (yes its kinda strange but i love more daoc graphics than WoW) and PvP shit at all.

I really think that Blizzard's name made Wow so spectacular, and not the quality and action of it.

Have to agree with Xomen on that point.

Well, I agree on several of the points, but that one is specificly why I think WoW failed for me to be honest.

It was so geared towards casual gamers that it neglected to have mechanics that favoured grouping over running around solo and doing quests, so I never got a character above level 30, I think I stopped in the high 20's through.

First time I played, I had some friends there too, who I knew from both DAoC and from school, who I played with, but most of them soon lost interest in WoW, but it was fun in those days, as you had someone to group with.

Tried re-activiating or re-subbing later (don't remember if I used old or new accounts), deadset on getting up in levels, and while there was still lots of people around in the low level zones, and I actively looked for group every time I was on, I got a total whopping zero grouping offers before I stopped having the patience to do solo quests for leveling

EDIT: (Just realized I aint done yet)

When I started DAoC, groups was bountiful all around, people usually grouped up just to kill monsters, as you got bonus XP to compensate you for the lower XP pr. creep kill, and you could kill so much faster and steadily (and higher level, making the XP pr. kill even higher than when solo in some instances), that, as far as I remember, it could really boost leveling speed by several factors, you could be running around solo killing things, thinking that in a few hours, I'll be level 21, then find a group to kill things with and be all merry, knowing that now it would only take you 10 minuts or so to get 21

I personally think, that neither ToA, nor any other expansion was what delivered the killing blow to DAoC.

/Level20 did, I suspect.

After that command was added, however neat for those who was level 50, it killed the fun of the game for 20 levels for new players.

I was crafting a lot at that time and was in Aegir (Mid SI zone) where most new players would start at that time, and it was depressing seeing a low level new player struggling to get by, asking around for advice, running around solo constantly.

Seriously, who here had stuck to DAoC if they too had to do the first 20 levels solo and by themselves, without fun chats with random groups who increased the level'ing speed tremendously?

I know level 20 was still easy to do, IF YOU KNEW HOW, but facts remains that new players would not know how to get to level 20 in any quick fashion, and I personally think that vast majority (99% or so) of those new players at that time, quit the game before hitting level 20 (or shortly after, because many didn't do random groups with their /level 20 chars besides to get to level 24 for thid) and that lack of new blood into the game essentially lead to DAoC starting to decline fast.

 

[ford prefect]

/Level20 did, I suspect.

I think you are probably right there. One of the most interesting things about DAoC when it came out of beta was the group mechanics - PvEing in new and interesting dungeons and slowly getting to know your toon. It was a very social aspect to the game too, as you were all in the same boat.

By the time the /level command was implemented PvE was far easier, more loot was dropping and basically people wanted to get into thid as quick as possible followed by a faceless power level group to lvl 50. On top of that bots where becoming more popular and people began to see the PvE element of the game as the grind you had to go through to get some real RvR. Mythic took there eye off the ball from then on - sure there where new dungeons ect in the following expansions, but the storyline and lore in DAoC was extremely weak. Rather than adding a quick /level fix, they should have invested a lot more time in creating more dynamic and interesting PvE, so that each toon wasn't a "grind".

Personally some of the best times I had in DAoC where PvE: Exploring new dungeons with a half naked toon and seven other people as clueless as me, or the first time we explored the depths of Darkness Falls or the first time we stormed the Summoners Hall. Sure RvR was fun, and I am sure many people will disagree, but for me the lack on any decent group based PvE content probably caused the decline of DAoC.

 

[Punishment]

But the strange thing is that Daoc Pvp even with only 3000 players (and for sure the 50% is not in rvr zones) in all realms seems overcrowed as hell..

I dont think that you can see a proper 1 vs 1 nowdays

30% max are in pvp zones and over half that are bots , ywain is a weird cluster wayyyy too much pve going on , what get's me from a solo minstrel perspective is absolutely nobody roam's or pve's on the frontiers anymore which means less random people to hunt and also less hunter's hunting above people to hunt , the rvr action is always centralised in 1 place for instaport or everyone doorsteps , its both pathetic and retarded and its not just the americans as eu timezone is even worse and tbh the best time to play is westcoast us time

 

[xomer]

30% max are in pvp zones and over half that are bots , ywain is a weird cluster wayyyy too much pve going on , what get's me from a solo minstrel perspective is absolutely nobody roam's or pve's on the frontiers anymore which means less random people to hunt and also less hunter's hunting above people to hunt , the rvr action is always centralised in 1 place for instaport or everyone doorsteps , its both pathetic and retarded and its not just the americans as eu timezone is even worse and tbh the best time to play is westcoast us time

First of all i agree with ya. Us playtime is better.

Something else now.. You said Minstrel.

Please explain to me why the fuck we pa yesterday an rr5 minstrel and we couldnt kill him ? We hit him for about 2 minutes and we couldnt kill him cause all the time the guy healed himself. And then he SoS and run..

We was 3 guyz (1 low rr (me), rr7, rr10).. :S

 

[liloe]

I think you are probably right there. One of the most interesting things about DAoC when it came out of beta was the group mechanics - PvEing in new and interesting dungeons and slowly getting to know your toon. It was a very social aspect to the game too, as you were all in the same boat.

By the time the /level command was implemented PvE was far easier, more loot was dropping and basically people wanted to get into thid as quick as possible followed by a faceless power level group to lvl 50. On top of that bots where becoming more popular and people began to see the PvE element of the game as the grind you had to go through to get some real RvR. Mythic took there eye off the ball from then on - sure there where new dungeons ect in the following expansions, but the storyline and lore in DAoC was extremely weak. Rather than adding a quick /level fix, they should have invested a lot more time in creating more dynamic and interesting PvE, so that each toon wasn't a "grind".

After that command was added, however neat for those who was level 50, it killed the fun of the game for 20 levels for new players.

I was crafting a lot at that time and was in Aegir (Mid SI zone) where most new players would start at that time, and it was depressing seeing a low level new player struggling to get by, asking around for advice, running around solo constantly.

… and that lack of new blood into the game essentially lead to DAoC starting to decline fast.

Very good points there. I also think that learning the game was much harder in DAoC and finding out in which zone to level best wasn't that easy as well

EDIT: And talking about balance. DAoC has too many unique abilities, which makes grouping less versatile, which is especially true in RvR. There is only ONE class per realm that can cast spec buffs and if you don't spec for bases, nobody will want them. Basically I always thought that stat buffs were a bad idea, because they become an absolute must. Then you have what I'd call half-assed classes such as the valkyrie. No matter how much healing you spec as valkyrie or warden, you will never be able to be a primary healer, so why even give those classes healing. All it does is give them a powerful bonus in 1v1 fights. Why is there only one primary speed class in each realm? Why only one primary cc class? Why only one spec buffer? etc.

 

[Everz]

30% max are in pvp zones and over half that are bots , ywain is a weird cluster wayyyy too much pve going on , what get's me from a solo minstrel perspective is absolutely nobody roam's or pve's on the frontiers anymore which means less random people to hunt and also less hunter's hunting above people to hunt , the rvr action is always centralised in 1 place for instaport or everyone doorsteps , its both pathetic and retarded and its not just the americans as eu timezone is even worse and tbh the best time to play is westcoast us time

This. Why I got bored was that. You either went to the hotspot area or you didn't find anything to kill. Didn't lie when I said I found it much more fun on Killibury when it has 400-500 population then Ywain with it's booming population.

 

[Punishment]

This. Why I got bored was that. You either went to the hotspot area or you didn't find anything to kill. Didn't lie when I said I found it much more fun on Killibury when it has 400-500 population then Ywain with it's booming population.

Killibury/Devon Clusters were much better and this rassa pl shit is meaning no random xp groups on the frontiers + they changed the dragon minion spawntime from almost instant to superslow , i don't really hunt xpers but the people who did meant alot of smallmans roaming that were bad to kill , not there is nothing

 

[Everz]

Agreed. No smallman roaming to be found at all, and like you said it wasn't for the xp hunting, but would often get solo/duos in and around there on Devon. Rassa just made it bleh, same as many new things that came into the game. Was a much more fun game on Killibury to me, miss that period of the game tbh.