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old.yaruar
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- #31
More like 6 months wasn't it, if not more...
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tilde
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- #32
yea we got it 3months behind, now we're even more behind
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Lanceloc
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- #33
GOA all your base belong to us!
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old.Reborn
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- #34
Yaruar, it’s no excuse that GOA has to translate into two languages. GOA could hire more translators. After all they have a much larger market then the Italians.
Many people don’t want to leave for the US. We have made friends on the servers we now play at and have invested much time in our current characters. The problem is that GOA lied; they said they would be much faster at translating then they are. The second problem is that the current population on the English servers are not growing. The more people that choose the US version over the European one, the worse it will be for the customers that choose to stay.
When I can’t get friends to choose the European version over the US one, because of GOA, it does kind of hurt.
Many people don’t want to leave for the US. We have made friends on the servers we now play at and have invested much time in our current characters. The problem is that GOA lied; they said they would be much faster at translating then they are. The second problem is that the current population on the English servers are not growing. The more people that choose the US version over the European one, the worse it will be for the customers that choose to stay.
When I can’t get friends to choose the European version over the US one, because of GOA, it does kind of hurt.
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old.Hendrick
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- #35
There is a limited amount of money a company can spend on translation crew. And with a userbase of maybe 20.000 people in Europe, I don't think the game generates enough coin for GOA to get enough people together to make the translation of patches possible in less than a week. And please don't tell me they would get more customers if they employed more people. You will only dig into the game once you have bought it, the amount of folks researching so much as to check boards like this should be minimal.
I know it's sad, but I can live with it. There is no use crying about missing patches all the time. We will get them soon enough. The game is playable well enough at the moment, I see the patches as nice new additions, but I can live without them. Since I have started playing the game and checking boards, people are constantly whining about patching and other issues. It gets repetitive. People always bring up the same old arguments. Sometimes it seems to me that I only see threads with "uh, where is the patch", "goa sux" etc.
This is an online game. Online games will always suffer from sudden trouble due to various reasons. That's a fact and has been since Diablo 1 and propably even before. You have to realise that.
As soon as we have the new patches, people will start crying about how their uber-character got nerfed. These people will always moan. Why? If you don't like it, play something else.
I know it's sad, but I can live with it. There is no use crying about missing patches all the time. We will get them soon enough. The game is playable well enough at the moment, I see the patches as nice new additions, but I can live without them. Since I have started playing the game and checking boards, people are constantly whining about patching and other issues. It gets repetitive. People always bring up the same old arguments. Sometimes it seems to me that I only see threads with "uh, where is the patch", "goa sux" etc.
This is an online game. Online games will always suffer from sudden trouble due to various reasons. That's a fact and has been since Diablo 1 and propably even before. You have to realise that.
As soon as we have the new patches, people will start crying about how their uber-character got nerfed. These people will always moan. Why? If you don't like it, play something else.
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old.yaruar
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- #36
/em looks for this unlimited pot of money goa have to work with.
20k subscribers at 6 UKpounds a month works out at about 1.4 million a year...
Whilst this looks like a lot of money in corporate terms this is peanuts.
I don't know about france but hiring and paying staff is expensive. If you say pay a translater 25k a year (guess) even more on a shorter contract pro rata and 10-20 percent agency fees. this means hiring 5 extra translaters costs nearly 150k not including misc overheads such as equipment, office space, etc, etc.
I expect goa to be working on tight margins as it is with hosting, pipeline, programming, sales, production, etc, etc costs.
Why is it everyone expects a perfect game and a perfect company in a perfect world.
There has never been a totally bug free game/gaming system there has never been utopian customer relations. get over it.
20k subscribers at 6 UKpounds a month works out at about 1.4 million a year...
Whilst this looks like a lot of money in corporate terms this is peanuts.
I don't know about france but hiring and paying staff is expensive. If you say pay a translater 25k a year (guess) even more on a shorter contract pro rata and 10-20 percent agency fees. this means hiring 5 extra translaters costs nearly 150k not including misc overheads such as equipment, office space, etc, etc.
I expect goa to be working on tight margins as it is with hosting, pipeline, programming, sales, production, etc, etc costs.
Why is it everyone expects a perfect game and a perfect company in a perfect world.
There has never been a totally bug free game/gaming system there has never been utopian customer relations. get over it.
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Rutger Hauer
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- #37
Isn't GOA part of France Telecom (the French national supplier)
which basically means GOA are a part of a great bureaucracy with all the problems that come with it...
The trouble with the transalations is that if you have a meeting to discuss what your going to translate and to what version, then additional meeting to discuss progress, then more meeting to discuss other things that come up..
If you look at it this way you'll be plesantly surprised translations only take 2 to 3 months.. (Just imagine if BT were running the game)
Rutger
which basically means GOA are a part of a great bureaucracy with all the problems that come with it...
The trouble with the transalations is that if you have a meeting to discuss what your going to translate and to what version, then additional meeting to discuss progress, then more meeting to discuss other things that come up..
If you look at it this way you'll be plesantly surprised translations only take 2 to 3 months.. (Just imagine if BT were running the game)
Rutger
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Shaki/Aeis
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- #38
I've read somewhere that they first translate Albion then Hibernia then Midgard.
If this is true then why not hire more people so they can do all Realms at the same time. It will be the same cost but will be done tripple as fast as it is now.
If this is true then why not hire more people so they can do all Realms at the same time. It will be the same cost but will be done tripple as fast as it is now.
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old.yaruar
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- #39
The thing is it won't be the same cost as you will
a) have people on short term contracts which are more expensive
b) have more people employed at any one time.
The ideal situation is to have the team you can afford and to keep that team in place in equilibrium.
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old.Ayeye
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- #40
yaruar tell me, what have I written wrong?
Tell me, maybe my english is not so good so I haven't explained myself well...
I was trying to say that Italians made 3 full translations, the same number of translation that Goa made until now.
Now seen that english to english is not a translation they have made "only" two full traslation in much more time compared to italians!
That was my point.
I have no words, mate...
I wasn't flaming you, got it?
I was flaming a company that imho is lamer because they are not able to support a game like Daoc and they are doing little to improve this bad situation.
In every case I haven't insulted you so please check your words next time.
Have a nice day
Tell me, maybe my english is not so good so I haven't explained myself well...
I was trying to say that Italians made 3 full translations, the same number of translation that Goa made until now.
Now seen that english to english is not a translation they have made "only" two full traslation in much more time compared to italians!
That was my point.
I have no words, mate...
I wasn't flaming you, got it?
I was flaming a company that imho is lamer because they are not able to support a game like Daoc and they are doing little to improve this bad situation.
In every case I haven't insulted you so please check your words next time.
Have a nice day
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old.ElDiablo
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- #41
first of all they have more subs than 20k atm there is 19 000 playing the game in europe. Do you think E V E R Y one who has an account is playing now? Am I playing? No everyone isnt playing at the same time probably half of the subs arent playing now. So take 2x 20k and u get 40k subs.
And the italians have subs enough for faster translation. They only have one country to get subs from. Do you understand what I am saying?
This means that GOA have subscribers from the rest of europe and much more subs therefore they can hire more translators.
Is there something you do not understand in the above post? Cant you think by yourself.
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old.KW
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- #42
this is from GOA's friday news
My point would be if they can run the test server of another patcher, why cant they do the same for the UK servers?? some might say that the germans/french might then flock to the UK servers and if thats the case, then why bother having a french/german version in the 1st place?
My point would be if they can run the test server of another patcher, why cant they do the same for the UK servers?? some might say that the germans/french might then flock to the UK servers and if thats the case, then why bother having a french/german version in the 1st place?
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Ardwan
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- #43
And more subs means more servers, more people to look after these servers, an all-round bigger operation, needing mroe people to be employed, they can't spend every pound(euro?) they get entirely on translation, infact I reckon that is probably the thing they spend the least money on, as it is the least important.
Which would you rather have:
1) Pretty well maintained servers, that have nearly no downtime, but you have to wait a bit for a patch
2) Have the patch straight away, but have poorly maintained servers, that are constantly being brought up and down due to tech issues.
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old.ElDiablo
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- #44
the thing is that DAoC italy has servers maintained well and have patches i cant see why we cant have the same as they.
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Ardwan
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- #45
Mainly because they have less to deal with, GOA are doing twice the translation, and having to deal with a lot more customers.
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old.ElDiablo
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- #46
yes but as i stated above they also earn more money and therefore should be able to handle it.
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Ardwan
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- #47
yes they have a larger ...but they also have a larger outcome..
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old.ElDiablo
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- #48
Ok let me try to make this as simple as possible
Italy can maintain their servers and have the latest patch. Their playerbase is smaller therefore they have less servers.
GOA can maintain their servers but cant have the latest patch. Their playerbase is larger therefore they have more servers.
Both should make a similar profit (percentwise) but only Italy spends enough on translators.
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Lydek
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- #49
exactly ElDiablo. There is NO reason why GOA should take longer over patch translation than the Italians.
Assume for a minute there were 2 separate GOAs (God forbid), responsible for the German and French servers. Each would then have a similar income, similar server costs and a similar translation task to the Italians. So these 2 companies should be able to translate as fast as the Italians. How is that different from 1 GOA, with twice the income, twice the server costs and twice the translation to do? If anything the single company would be more cost efficient as certain server costs (patch server for example) could be shared. So a single GOA, responsible for the French and German language servers should be able to patch as fast as the Italians.
This still doesnt match the reality of the situation of course. In fact GOA has English servers too. A third income of the same order of magnitude as the others, a third set of costs, but one that requires no translating. So there is spare money generated by the English language servers, compared with the Italians. This extra money should allow the GOA French and German translation teams to be approximately 1 and a half times the size of the Italian ones. This should make patching noticeably faster than in Italy, not slower.
GOA promised us patches 'within a few days' of the US. Currently they aren't even patching at the same rate as the US. Again I ask the question - how can it take longer to translate something (even if you have to do it twice) than it takes to create original content?
Assume for a minute there were 2 separate GOAs (God forbid), responsible for the German and French servers. Each would then have a similar income, similar server costs and a similar translation task to the Italians. So these 2 companies should be able to translate as fast as the Italians. How is that different from 1 GOA, with twice the income, twice the server costs and twice the translation to do? If anything the single company would be more cost efficient as certain server costs (patch server for example) could be shared. So a single GOA, responsible for the French and German language servers should be able to patch as fast as the Italians.
This still doesnt match the reality of the situation of course. In fact GOA has English servers too. A third income of the same order of magnitude as the others, a third set of costs, but one that requires no translating. So there is spare money generated by the English language servers, compared with the Italians. This extra money should allow the GOA French and German translation teams to be approximately 1 and a half times the size of the Italian ones. This should make patching noticeably faster than in Italy, not slower.
GOA promised us patches 'within a few days' of the US. Currently they aren't even patching at the same rate as the US. Again I ask the question - how can it take longer to translate something (even if you have to do it twice) than it takes to create original content?
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old.Ayeye
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- #50
That was exactly my point but I got flamed by yaruar...
Btw thanks ElDiablo for making it clear!
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Rutger Hauer
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- #51
Oh come on guys where u get this idea GOA are only translating twice from?.. surely everybody knows that the first thing they do is translate all the english into french, then back into english again.. must be the real reason translations are taking so long
Rutger
Rutger
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Lydek
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- #52
Well they could at least translate it into English from French and not US English then
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old.trigali
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- #53
You guys are really killing me.
What the HELL is preventing you from enjoying what you have instead of complaining about what you haven't got ?
At the end of the day I still enjoy playing the game as it is. If it gets better, well great. If not, I don't care.
I don't need to look accross the pond and see how lucky the US guys are. By default I think they suck anyway, so they might as well have better gadgets to compensate for their poor taste, crap presidents, awful food and so on.
Why do you have to go and drool all over the next patch we don't have, the support (you think) we don't have etc... bloody hell are your LIVES that perfect you haven't got anything better to complain about ?????????
What the HELL is preventing you from enjoying what you have instead of complaining about what you haven't got ?
At the end of the day I still enjoy playing the game as it is. If it gets better, well great. If not, I don't care.
I don't need to look accross the pond and see how lucky the US guys are. By default I think they suck anyway, so they might as well have better gadgets to compensate for their poor taste, crap presidents, awful food and so on.
Why do you have to go and drool all over the next patch we don't have, the support (you think) we don't have etc... bloody hell are your LIVES that perfect you haven't got anything better to complain about ?????????
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old.Ayeye
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- #54
For example , speaking for myself (paladin):
- No resist chants
- Lvl 41 quest broken (great quest that give 4 really nice items)
- Many hit point less
In addition:
- A lot of friends that play on US server have come here, but they went back on US server because of lack of updates and support..
Moreover:
- No new dungeon, nor in 1.48 ! We have to wait at least 2 or 3 months more for this (if Goa
uke: goes on to patch in this way)- Future improvements that surely Mythic will do and I think we do not see for months....
I'm sorry but all these things are really bad to me and I have subscribed for 6 months (trusting in Goa
uke: ) so I have to play and I have now a pretty nice char (I mean I've invested lot of my free time and I haven't so much free) and sincerly I do not want to start all from the beginning on another server (Us or Italian)! I would like to see these servers patched and working!
And I will go on in flaming Goa
uke: until I do not see a lot of improvements in less time! Until now they have done really few things....
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old.yaruar
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- #55
This wasn't directly aimed at you but at the people who have been whining about goa from day 1.
The first day the official boards opened there was someone whining and it just gets a bit tedious.
If people are that annoyed they have a choice and the choice is to not play goas product.
I think it's an exsaserbation caused by the internets speed of communication on the natural human capacy to see fault in things...
I personally don't think Goa are doing a bad job (cue accusations of brownnosing and being a goa employee
) they have their faults, but they are faults shared by amost all software companies......
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old.yaruar
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- #56
Originally posted by ElDiablo
Ok let me try to make this as simple as possible
Italy can maintain their servers and have the latest patch. Their playerbase is smaller therefore they have less servers.
GOA can maintain their servers but cant have the latest patch. Their playerbase is larger therefore they have more servers.
Both should make a similar profit (percentwise) but only Italy spends enough on translators.
Why should both make a similar profit?
The companies are difficult to compare. Size, international market, pre-existing company, local taxes/regulations, Just the simple fact that Italy ony has to deal with one currency whereas goa deals with 3 countries currencies (oh got I hope the UK goes into the Euro soon...)
You can not equate companies unless you know them......
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old.yaruar
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- #57
The player bases are not even, there are a lot less uk players
translation is only a small part of the budget. Do you know how much a 1gb line costs?
As for the promises, I didn't see those, I brought the game to play, not to moan about.
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old.trigali
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- #58
I am fully behind you Yaruar.
I wish these forums were a little bit more constructive some times, exchanging useful information instead of pointless complaints that no one can do anything about.
If you want GoA to notice, CANCEL YOUR SUBSCRIPTION. They are not your neighbour or a politician you vote/don't vote for, they are a COMPANY.
They understand MONEY: .less customer=bad, more customers=good. What the customer says is not relevant until he leaves.
So tell me how to get the bloody darksteel cloak to drop from the Svarts in Spindelhalla instead
I wish these forums were a little bit more constructive some times, exchanging useful information instead of pointless complaints that no one can do anything about.
If you want GoA to notice, CANCEL YOUR SUBSCRIPTION. They are not your neighbour or a politician you vote/don't vote for, they are a COMPANY.
They understand MONEY: .less customer=bad, more customers=good. What the customer says is not relevant until he leaves.
So tell me how to get the bloody darksteel cloak to drop from the Svarts in Spindelhalla instead
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Lanceloc
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- #59
GOA all your keep belong to us
You need more code warriors
You need more code warriors
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Krillin
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- #60
at the end of the day whether or not we are miles behind in terms of patches there are certain aspects of this game that frustrate me immensly.
Customer support - i find the customer support to be incredibly frustarting, difficult to use and slow.
Customer relations - in my opinion this is also very poor. There seems to be a real sense of the user base feeling isolated from GOA which is wrong. Both GOA and the players are dependent upon each other to survive and the current situation is less than pleasing.
At University and now at work we are always told the two biggest factors in keeping a large userbase are these two aspects. It seems that in the case of DAOC this has been forgotten. In my view i don't feel like i have any means of communicating with GOA at all and that is bad.
If GOA are to succeed they must for their own benefit as well as ours improve both the customer support and relations. 3 - 4 lines of information on a friday just isn't good enough in my opinion. As a paying customer i want to be receiving information on a daily basis and if there are problems i'd like to be made aware of them rather than feeling like i'm being strung along. Don't get me wrong though i will not be moving to the USA and am not flaming GOA in this message i just feel that as a company they have some issues they need to resolve.
Anyone else got any input on their opinion of the customer support or relations or anything else i said? i'll be interested to hear them.
Customer support - i find the customer support to be incredibly frustarting, difficult to use and slow.
Customer relations - in my opinion this is also very poor. There seems to be a real sense of the user base feeling isolated from GOA which is wrong. Both GOA and the players are dependent upon each other to survive and the current situation is less than pleasing.
At University and now at work we are always told the two biggest factors in keeping a large userbase are these two aspects. It seems that in the case of DAOC this has been forgotten. In my view i don't feel like i have any means of communicating with GOA at all and that is bad.
If GOA are to succeed they must for their own benefit as well as ours improve both the customer support and relations. 3 - 4 lines of information on a friday just isn't good enough in my opinion. As a paying customer i want to be receiving information on a daily basis and if there are problems i'd like to be made aware of them rather than feeling like i'm being strung along. Don't get me wrong though i will not be moving to the USA and am not flaming GOA in this message i just feel that as a company they have some issues they need to resolve.
Anyone else got any input on their opinion of the customer support or relations or anything else i said? i'll be interested to hear them.