Cue WWIII.

[Ch3tan]

No religion fits with modern society.

Do you not see the massive hypocrisy you are spouting? "they shouldn't be allowed to force their views on us, or let their culture influence ours" "we should westernise them"

Christianity is just as bad as Islam, they shit the church gets away with in Africa is criminal.

 

[aika]

I do not intend to westernize other countries, I just want mine not to become "easternized".

 

[noblok]

I only have a problem with Islam which does not in my opinion fit into modern society, if you want to worship budhaism or induism or whatever I have no problem with that.

Give Islam 50-60 more years to become more "westernized" then assimilate them if you want.

Or we could just integrate the parts which do fit in modern society, like minarets, and ban the things which don't, like chopping off hands for stealing. I really don't see why this is such a problem.

 

[Ch3tan]

Aika seems to have a massive problem with the middle ground, no offense but are you autistic? You only seem to be able to see black or white.

Multi cultural societies are not about one culture overwhelming another.

 

[aika]

Or we could just integrate the parts which do fit in modern society, like minarets, and ban the things which don't, like chopping off hands for stealing. I really don't see why this is such a problem.

This would be the optimal solution, but you will always have extermists that will want more. Depends how much support the extremists will get.

 

[aika]

Aika seems to have a massive problem with the middle ground, no offense but are you autistic? You only seem to be able to see black or white.

Multi cultural societies are not about one culture overwhelming another.

Yes, but you're trying to enforce multi-culturality or however you name it in a very short period of time on a traditionally non multi-cultural countries.

 

[Ch3tan]

I'm not trying to enforce anything, I don't share your opinion, which focuses on worst case.

Like I've said repeatedly, a democratic country protects itself through it's democracy. If people don't want something they will make noise. Extremists very rarely get their way, because people see them for what they are.

 

[aika]

I'm not trying to enforce anything, I don't share your opinion, which focuses on worst case.

Like I've said repeatedly, a democratic country protects itself through it's democracy. If people don't want something they will make noise. Extremists very rarely get their way, because people see them for what they are.

Extremists often use democracy to gain power and then remove said democracy.

If one day you will have a muslim majority in your country and they will enforce the Shariya Law, will that make you happy? Do you think its not possible? (given they traditionally have a higher birth-rate).

 

[noblok]

This would be the optimal solution, but you will always have extermists that will want more. Depends how much support the extremists will get.

Obviously there are extremists who want more, but I don't see why this should be a reason to ban perfectly legitimate actions which fit perfectly fine in a modern, western society (like building minarets).

 

[aika]

Obviously there are extremists who want more, but I don't see why this should be a reason to ban perfectly legitimate actions which fit perfectly fine in a modern, western society (like building minarets).

I don't think you understand the middle-eastern mentality enough to claim that.

All I say is that imo you're digging your own grave or if not your own, then your children's or grand-children's.

 

[tierk]

I do not intend to westernize other countries, I just want mine not to become "easternized".

What a load of bollocks. By the mere fact of your presence and your countries existence, that entire statement is redundant.

I am pretty certain you do not have to actually go that far back in your family tree - grandparents or great grandparents - to discover that you are actually from somewhere else (Eastern Europe, Russia or USA) unless you are one of the minority of Jews that were actually living in Palestine. It is not your country and it is not becoming easternized as you are insinuating but rather it is /was easternized before your sorry ass forefathers came along and stole their country. tbh I do not even have a clue Wtf you trying to do to it – westernize, easternized, secularize or….

 

[Job]

Us Brits are incredibly xenophobic against the influx of foreign cultures, because we know our own tricks.
To me a Mosque is the physical representation of cultism, blind belief and power.

I would ban all faith schools, all segregation, ban all religous symbols, eliminate 'respect' for religous beliefs.
Yes it's been tried before, but we have to keep at it, even the Romans spent a glorious 2-300 years without belief of any kind after they realised Christianity was just a pile of shit.

 

[Raven]

No we aren't. We are made up of all sorts of cultures which is what makes us so smashing.

 

[aika]

What a load of bollocks. By the mere fact of your presence and your countries existence, that entire statement is redundant.

I am pretty certain you do not have to actually go that far back in your family tree - grandparents or great grandparents - to discover that you are actually from somewhere else (Eastern Europe, Russia or USA) unless you are one of the minority of Jews that were actually living in Palestine. It is not your country and it is not becoming easternized as you are insinuating but rather it is /was easternized before your sorry ass forefathers came along and stole their country. tbh I do not even have a clue Wtf you trying to do to it – westernize, easternized, secularize or….

Cool story since I'm not even jewish. I would love secularization though. The same argument can be applied to entire Western Poland and Kaliningrad Oblast in Russia ( wtf are they doing on German lands?) or why is Tohtori living on the former land of the Russian Empire?

You see, borders move all the time and new countries are created some times.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Cool story since I'm not even jewish. I would love secularization though. The same argument can be applied to entire Western Poland and Kaliningrad Oblast in Russia ( wtf are they doing on German lands?) or why is Tohtori living on the former land of the Russian Empire?

You see, borders move all the time and new countries are created some times.

Actually this land was owned by other people way before russians

Without swedes and russians influencing though, Finland wouldn't be what it is now.

If the original lines were kept, there would be no finland.

So mixing of cultures, not a bad thing.

 

[aika]

Actually this land was owned by other people way before russians

Without swedes and russians influencing though, Finland wouldn't be what it is now.

If the original lines were kept, there would be no finland.

So mixing of cultures, not a bad thing.

ofc its not a bad thing, if its normal cultures xD

 

[old.Tohtori]

ofc its not a bad thing, if its normal cultures xD

Teh clash of the cultures in those days would be akin to what would happen if there was a complete mixing of the UK and say Iran.

There is nothing abnormal in any culture, jsut differences and it wouldn't even be a mixing of cultures of that magnitude.

 

[tierk]

Cool story since I'm not even jewish.

Which makes your claim to the land you live on even more untenable and your previous statements about not wanting to impose blah blah blah. Unless off course you are a Palestinian, which i would think is highly unlikely considering all your past posts on threads relating to anything to do with Israel, Palestine or Muslims.

 

[aika]

Which makes your claim to the land you live on even more untenable and your previous statements about not wanting to impose blah blah blah. Unless off course you are a Palestinian, which i would think is highly unlikely considering all your past posts on threads relating to anything to do with Israel, Palestine or Muslims.

Don't think I ever made any claims to the land. If it's conquered by force, I don't see any difference on how other countries acquired land. (Yes some bought, but that was mainly the US). Land is usually acquired through warfare or peace agreements after a war ( see WW1 and WW2,etc). So dunno really how you can have claims on a land in other ways.

For me, Islam died in 1258.

 

[tierk]

Don't think I ever made any claims to the land. If it's conquered by force, I don't see any difference on how other countries acquired land. (Yes some bought, but that was mainly the US). Land is usually acquired through warfare or peace agreements after a war ( see WW1 and WW2,etc). So dunno really how you can have claims on a land in other ways.

The initial creation of the State of Israel was not by an act of war but rather an act of the UN with its ill thought out Resolution 181. So in the first instance it was a straight up theft, facilitate by your main supporter and backer the USA. All further expansions of it borders have been as a direct result of wars, once again backed by your eternal ally.

If, as you correctly claim, Israel’s claim to Palestine is by right of conquest, then it is also correct that the people you have dispossessed have every right to continue to resist, by any means possible, to get their land back. It also makes abundantly clear that all the talk about peace - two /one state, bantustans – is bullshit as it can only end in one of two ways: final defeat of one side or the other.

Regardless of how it was acquired and occupied, it makes no difference. It is a situation where someone from outside of the land has come and taken over and is trying to impose – still cannot tell you if it is westernized, secularized or whatever – a way of life alien to the indigenous people of the land, which makes your statement…..

I do not intend to westernize other countries, I just want mine not to become "easternized"

seem a little bit strange to say the least.

 

[aika]

in my original post I was talking about the situation in Europe. Nevertheless, it doesn't matter to me how my own country became westernized, I wanna keep it this way and honestly don't care how it came to this situation.
If things change, I will just emigrate somewhere else.

Seeing the election results in Holland today, I think my prediction of civil war/rise of Nazism in a European country in the not so far future, seems not so absurd now.

All of this could've been prevented.

Edit: still funny though how you only see the muslim side tierk, how about the muslim immigrants in Europe? They also bring a way of life alien to the indigenous people of the land, but the people there need to adapt to it, according to you. However muslims don't need to adapt to anything?

 

[tierk]

Edit: still funny though how you only see the muslim side tierk, how about the muslim immigrants in Europe? They also bring a way of life alien to the indigenous people of the land, but the people there need to adapt to it, according to you. However muslims don't need to adapt to anything?

I find it laughable that you think the two situations are even remotely similar.

The difference between Muslims moving /immigrating to Europe and the situation in Israel is that we (I consider myself a British /Iranian, Muslim, who has and lived /worked in England for 30+ years) did not forcibly remove people from their land and homes and we certainly have not occupied an entire country /countries. We have not created ghettoes out of areas of England and forced the indigenous people to live in them at the point of a gun and with missiles and tanks. We have no claims to the lands we live on (except when we buy or houses) and mostly follow the laws of the countries we chose to live in.

If you are so deluded to think that the two situations are in anyway comparably I would suggest that you take stock of the actual living conditions of the people dispossessed in Palestine today. You might note that they are not all Muslims – though a majority are – and ask yourself if you could live the way that Israeli’s are asking them too and what you would do if you, your family where subjected to the circumstances they have been.