Cue WWIII.

[Raven]

Neither would I, the strawberries wouldn't get enough sunshine.

 

[old.Osy]

tbfh, they are welcome to come to europe and enjoy our lifestyle, once they build families, it's unlikely they will passionately hate us anymore, since... hell, they're living in the same place.

Bring on the minarets.

 

[Aoami]

you could use the minarette as an elaborate bird house, or it would be a good lookout post for the paranoid.

bring on the minarettes i say

 

[aika]

you could use the minarette as an elaborate bird house, or it would be a good lookout post for the paranoid.

bring on the minarettes i say

will see you when you will wake up cause of them each day at 04:20 AM

 

[Vasconcelos]

will see you when you will wake up cause of them each day at 04:20 AM

And 5 times a day every godamned day ffs!

 

[noblok]

I hear churchbells every hour. (And airplanes every few minutes.)

 

[Tuthmes]

I hear churchbells every hour. (And airplanes every few minutes.)

Not exactly the same. And before you start saying it is, there's a difference in someone yelling through a speaker for 30 min and a bell going off for 10-20 seconds.

Airplanes have no business flying over houses anyway. It's stupid and dangerous.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Not exactly the same. And before you start saying it is, there's a difference in someone yelling through a speaker for 30 min and a bell going off for 10-20 seconds.

Airplanes have no business flying over houses anyway. It's stupid and dangerous.

Well in modern society, it would quickly be put down as noise pollution and speakers would be provided for those that wish to hear it, satisfying all needs.

Airplanes just have to fly over housing, if you wish to limit your traveltime to the airpot under 3 hours

Though churchbells are quite similar, they are sort of forcing things on unwanting ears. Then again, after living a couple of decades with it, you don't care and so would be the situation with speaker yelling.

 

[Tuthmes]

Though churchbells are quite similar, they are sort of forcing things on unwanting ears. Then again, after living a couple of decades with it, you don't care and so would be the situation with speaker yelling.

And before you start saying it is, there's a difference in someone yelling through a speaker for 30 min and a bell going off for 10-20 seconds.

...

 

[Raven]

The bells in my village have been chiming for 400 years+ Not exactly sure when they were installed but a loooong time ago. Nobody can really complain about them.

Its a bit like those ***** that move next door to a pub then complain about the noise.

 

[old.Tohtori]

...

... all you want, but in some aspects they are similar and also completely ignored the last part where i said that you get used to shit, or even the part on how it would be in western culture.

 

[Tuthmes]

... all you want, but in some aspects they are similar and also completely ignored the last part where i said that you get used to shit, or even the part on how it would be in western culture.

They are as similar as clipping your nails or pulling them out. Either way it gets the job done.

We could get used to to a lot of dumb things (insert random example) that doesnt mean we should or want it.

You are ignoring the fact of time, loudness, culture, just for the sake of argument.

 

[Helme]

Iran according to US strategic analysts would be insane not to develop nuclear weapons at this point - the chance of them ever using them is very, very slim but it's an important deterrant and probably more of a status thing than anything at this point.

I'm just going to say what I always say about Iran, if it manages to not do anything insane for another 5 years it will be the most progressive Arab country in the world.

And no, nothing will come from this - the Iranian ships will at best follow to Israel's territorial waters than stop, doing more would be a direct declaration of war - granted it would be a war Israel would have to fight mostly by itself, but still a war Iran would most likely lose.

 

[old.Tohtori]

They are as similar as clipping your nails or pulling them out. Either way it gets the job done.

We could get used to to a lot of dumb things (insert random example) that doesnt mean we should or want it.

You are ignoring the fact of time, loudness, culture, just for the sake of argument.

I'm not ignoring anything, i even integrated the system into the western world(select speakers etc) and how it would go down here if so be.

They are similar in two ways; they are public and loud. That much is true, timeframe may differ, but so does frequency. Church bells mroe frequent, the other lengthy. Second similarity is the forcing, you have no choice over churchbells and you wouldn't over this.

They don't have to be identical to be similar.

But since you think i'm doing it just for the sake of argument, snip snap, done with you.

 

[noblok]

Not exactly the same. And before you start saying it is, there's a difference in someone yelling through a speaker for 30 min and a bell going off for 10-20 seconds.

There's a difference, yes, but instead of outright banning, limitations on duration and loudness make more sense. (It also doesn't last anywhere near 30 minutes and I've heard churchbells who go off for a couple of minutes.)

 

[aika]

wow, you guys really are clueless, anyone of you even heard a muazzin once ?
and no you can't limit it in time as it will equal limiting a speech by cutting it in half.

I served on the Gaza border for a lot of time and trust me when you go to sleep at 3 am after 8 hours of patrolling and then wake up each day cause of this noise, the only thing you want is to call the minaret as a target for the artillery brigade on the radio.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Right, being more tolerant or figuring out how things might work in a cultural mix is clueless now?

How clueless is being in another country and planning a bombing on their culture?

 

[aika]

I thought that's what the immigrants from the East are doing to Europe now ? enforcing their culture and laws no?

And why do you want a cultural mix? Who said it is a good thing ?

I only follow the survival of the fittest rules.

 

[noblok]

I haven't heard it live, but I have heard several athans. For those, who haven't: link I really don't think this is unbearable, at least not if the loudness is regulated.

It's also possible to limit it in time, although you are right that this is only possible to an extent. The duration isn't set in stone, though.

 

[Shagrat]

Shouldnt we be discussing how muslims would integrate their faith into a western culture, rather than how western cultures should have to adapt to minarets springing up everywhere?

 

[Ch3tan]

If you believe media bullshit, then you'd think that. Islamic immigrants are doing what all immigrant groups do in any new country, keeping their cultural and religious heritage. It's only a few hardliners that want more, but you get that with any cultural group - it's the media focusing on Islam that portrays it differently.

 

[aika]

Shouldnt we be discussing how muslims would integrate their faith into a western culture, rather than how western cultures should have to adapt to minarets springing up everywhere?

We should, I'm afaid its too much white guilt and over liberalism in Europe.

 

[noblok]

Shouldnt we be discussing how muslims would integrate their faith into a western culture, rather than how western cultures should have to adapt to minarets springing up everywhere?

Which are basically two sides of the same medal.

 

[aika]

I thought that's what the immigrants from the East are doing to Europe now ? enforcing their culture and laws no?

And why do you want a cultural mix? Who said it is a good thing ?

I only follow the survival of the fittest rules.

Before I'm labeled a fascist or something, What I meant is that the only universally good thing(Evolutionary good) that you can think about for the entire human race is the survival of the fittest concept.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I thought that's what the immigrants from the East are doing to Europe now ? enforcing their culture and laws no?

And why do you want a cultural mix? Who said it is a good thing ?

I only follow the survival of the fittest rules.

First, no, they're not forcing it any more then western are doing every day. On their own people even.

I don't WANT a cultural mix, i accept it. If it happens, welcome. If not, ok.

You didn't just do the "i follow survival of the fittest by keeping my country pure" thing did you?

Shouldnt we be discussing how muslims would integrate their faith into a western culture, rather than how western cultures should have to adapt to minarets springing up everywhere?

Exactly, but how are you expecting them to do that, when there are people who think everything muslim = bad?

It's like you trying to just "live your life" when every day someone told you that everything you do is wrong.

 

[aika]

Which are basically two sides of the same medal.

"In Rome act like a Roman"

 

[old.Tohtori]

"In Rome act like a Roman"

Throw up after each meal and f*ck little boys?

 

[noblok]

"In Rome act like a Roman"

Or not.

That is, by the way, the basic definition of fascism: focussing on (illusional) homogenity and removing al 'strange' (volksfremd) elements.

 

[aika]

Throw up after each meal and f*ck little boys?

I've seen Islam and its concepts through first person experience. Of couse most muslim people are normal and you won't really feel any difference if you talk to a muslim from the middle east or a european.


But in general I wouldn't want this culture anywhere near me to be honest. Their values and concepts are so far from what a "Western" man is used to. In general I dislike fanatics of any religion, they just happen to have quite a lot of those.

 

[aika]

Or not.

That is, by the way, the basic definition of fascism: focussing on (illusional) homogenity and removing al 'strange' (volksfremd) elements.

This has nothing to do with focusing on illusional homogenity ( as its not illusional anyway, not culturally and not even biologically).

I wanna see you immigrate to some muslim country and try to enforce your lifestyle there ( free alcohol, western traditions, liberated women,etc..) and how this will end.
Or just try to build a church in Iran or something.