S
Skyler
Guest
- Thread starter
- #61
Gah, we can all tell you lot dont play against quality people all the time?
Where the slightest config change can give a huge advantage to someone..
I used changed skins for a period in beta 4/5, and I noticed considerable improvement due to getting "realistic" but different colour/slightly brighter models..
Lets take a look at some models shall we...
Take pretty much any of the standard CT models....
They are all dark, they have certain advantages hiding in certain places, they camo onto certain things....
Take the "urban" T model.... Dark headgear/shirt, urban camo trousers.
They are almost identical to most CT models if you just see the top.
You see one of their heads popping above a box and you delay for a fraction of a second while you try to figure out wether he is friendly or hostile.
This happens many times during games, you see a foot of someone and you cant make out which side they are on instantly, you need to see more, so there is a delay...
Say you downloaded a new T model that is completely different, its got a red bandana, and no balaclava, it has a bare chest, and shorts..
You will see a part of that model, and instantly know its NOT a CT or it IS a T, this saves time, this gives you an advantage. You shoot faster, you react faster. You play better.
That is why it is "cheating"
I agree some models are less "cheating" than others, but they nearly all give an unfair advantage in some way.
You must draw the line somewhere... I mean where is the line ?
Bender models are ok ? because they are on skinshack ?
But coloured models arent ?
Coloured models, give an unfair advantage, which = cheating.
Most new skins, give an unfair advantage, which = cheating ?
I play with default models quite happily now, but you can always tell people who have custom ones, they spot you in the shadows near instantly, they react faster when you pop out on them, they are cheating.
It is unfair to others to have models that enable you to react faster!
As for custom gun models, they can quite easily be advantageous, even the w_ models.
Again I used to have custom models back in beta4/5 and I used to change all models, v_ w_ and p_ .
I had a "snow colt" which i particularly remember, it was great, bright white and looked really nice....
But, I could also spot it a mile off on the ground, or even if i saw a spec of it I could instantly identify it as being a colt. This is an unfair advantage over people who saw it as a "gun", and had to get closer to identify it.
I guess you guys dont view that as "cheating" either ?
Why arent they cheating?
They are practically no different to the OGC weapon naming feature in some ways, although they dont display through walls..
p_ weapons are also usable for cheating in the same way...
my snow colt in a players hands enables must faster spotting and identifying of a player being in a position. I cant ID them as T or CT, but I can ID them as being a player, which makes me more aware and able to react faster should I need to.
And of course you get the "slightly" longer p_ models, which may make people stick out a bit more than normal, though only a tiny bit, it can make all the difference for spotting someone camping behind a box...
regarding what ch3t said:
"Jesus christ, in a league maybe not having default or league approved models could be considered cheating, but on a public server having a model that looks better or helps your performance is hardly cheating. People are so over paranoid in cs, it really makes me laugh."
That sentence gives license to anyone to download green/red models and use them with your consent practically.
You may view those as cheating, but they help performance, as do slightly more visible "realistic" models.. as do bender models... etc.
I think some cheaters should be unbanned because of that then, I mean.... using coloured models obviously isnt cheating?
Well anyway enough of that, because that is just silly, especially coming from a CS Liaison. :/
regarding moving targets post:
"Er, no. I don't quite use server crash .cfgs and OGC. Thanks. And I don't quite see it as cheating otherwise they wouldn't have a skin and model site on the actual CS webby "
There are many kinds of cheat, from certain console commands, to full blown server crashers...
All are cheats, and must be dealt with, the area we have for cheating is still a grey area for many things, that are almost as effective as using a wallhack.
People only bother to notice "OGC" and high profile aimbots...
Aimbots are nothing towards the problem of cheating in CS. The problem of cheating in CS and indeed in all online games is the subtle cheats. The ones that arent easy to spot, the "aides" that assist players in certain ways to improve performance.
Certain "aides" or "tweaks" are allowed, most are not, or at least shouldnt be.
Anyone remember Lambert ?
That gave such a big advantage to any user of it that is ludicrous how it was accepted amongst many clanned players for many months.
Same is happening for custom models/sounds now.
They give unfair advantages just like lambert, but arent spiked models/wallhacks, they can be so effective in the hands of a good player, more so than a wallhack could help you. They are so easy to hide, but they dont even have to be hidden, because most of you accept it.
Youre telling me you wouldnt mind playing a clanmatch against people who used custom models/sounds giving them a distinct advantage over you ?
If you dont mind that then why mind aimbotters or wallhackers, or people who use coloured models?
Ok, so I've covered custom weapons and custom playermodels... All be it in a wittering sort of muddled way, but its late and I am ill
I wont bother with sounds, but its quite obvious how lethal they could be....
Lets move onto the high fps models that many, including dolly uses.
I myself used these for a short period of time due to my low pc specs, I quickly changed realising how dodgy they were.
First thing, they are made from old cheat models. The author of them simply used the default cheating model and resized the head to "normal" size.
Everything else about them was constructed by a cheater, someone like a member of myg0t/HLH/mpcheats etc.
The models themselves stand taller than default models, the head is bigger, they are cuboid, so they stick out that little bit more due to sharp corners....
They arent hitbox accurate, they are still withing the hitbox size in some places, and in others they are bigger.
For example of you duck behind a box like one on prodigy, say... the small wooden boxes with green tarpaulin on them, if you duck behind one of those with default models, depending on the angle you would perhaps just be spotted by someone looking at it, due to a tiny bit of sticking out, however this alternates as the model breathes.
If you duck with the high fps models, due to the squareness of the head, and the fact its oversized, you can see them quite clearly, from even a flat on angle. You can clearly see a corner of the head popping above the box. This gives you instant notification of someone behind it, and therefore near instant death to the poor person behind it.
This is a distinct advantage, akin to spiked models, although on a smaller scale, it is still cheating.
We must draw the line between cheats and legit play.
As I said there is a firm idea of what cheating is to most... namely aimbot/wallhack/spiked models...
And there is also a fairly firm idea of what players think are legit... namely... any custom skin from skinshack, any custom weapon model, any custom sound......
In reality nearly all of custom skins/custom weapons (not v_)/ custom sounds.... give advantages over others, which arent meant to occur...
I've said loads, and cba to reread it or put it forward in a neater way as I feel kinda nasty
I hope some of you can see my point regarding most of these things. We must combat all forms of cheating, not just aimbotters/wallhackers, but all things that give unfair advantages, within a certain point. CS should be played with default models/skins/weaponmodels/weaponskins/sounds.
I wont even get onto things like the "duckjump" script and "walkhack". Those are both cheating as well, due to unfair advantages given by them (mostly the walkhack, duckjump script isnt as bad, but is still unfair.)
Anyway, fin.
Where the slightest config change can give a huge advantage to someone..
I used changed skins for a period in beta 4/5, and I noticed considerable improvement due to getting "realistic" but different colour/slightly brighter models..
Lets take a look at some models shall we...
Take pretty much any of the standard CT models....
They are all dark, they have certain advantages hiding in certain places, they camo onto certain things....
Take the "urban" T model.... Dark headgear/shirt, urban camo trousers.
They are almost identical to most CT models if you just see the top.
You see one of their heads popping above a box and you delay for a fraction of a second while you try to figure out wether he is friendly or hostile.
This happens many times during games, you see a foot of someone and you cant make out which side they are on instantly, you need to see more, so there is a delay...
Say you downloaded a new T model that is completely different, its got a red bandana, and no balaclava, it has a bare chest, and shorts..
You will see a part of that model, and instantly know its NOT a CT or it IS a T, this saves time, this gives you an advantage. You shoot faster, you react faster. You play better.
That is why it is "cheating"
I agree some models are less "cheating" than others, but they nearly all give an unfair advantage in some way.
You must draw the line somewhere... I mean where is the line ?
Bender models are ok ? because they are on skinshack ?
But coloured models arent ?
Coloured models, give an unfair advantage, which = cheating.
Most new skins, give an unfair advantage, which = cheating ?
I play with default models quite happily now, but you can always tell people who have custom ones, they spot you in the shadows near instantly, they react faster when you pop out on them, they are cheating.
It is unfair to others to have models that enable you to react faster!
As for custom gun models, they can quite easily be advantageous, even the w_ models.
Again I used to have custom models back in beta4/5 and I used to change all models, v_ w_ and p_ .
I had a "snow colt" which i particularly remember, it was great, bright white and looked really nice....
But, I could also spot it a mile off on the ground, or even if i saw a spec of it I could instantly identify it as being a colt. This is an unfair advantage over people who saw it as a "gun", and had to get closer to identify it.
I guess you guys dont view that as "cheating" either ?
Why arent they cheating?
They are practically no different to the OGC weapon naming feature in some ways, although they dont display through walls..
p_ weapons are also usable for cheating in the same way...
my snow colt in a players hands enables must faster spotting and identifying of a player being in a position. I cant ID them as T or CT, but I can ID them as being a player, which makes me more aware and able to react faster should I need to.
And of course you get the "slightly" longer p_ models, which may make people stick out a bit more than normal, though only a tiny bit, it can make all the difference for spotting someone camping behind a box...
regarding what ch3t said:
"Jesus christ, in a league maybe not having default or league approved models could be considered cheating, but on a public server having a model that looks better or helps your performance is hardly cheating. People are so over paranoid in cs, it really makes me laugh."
That sentence gives license to anyone to download green/red models and use them with your consent practically.
You may view those as cheating, but they help performance, as do slightly more visible "realistic" models.. as do bender models... etc.
I think some cheaters should be unbanned because of that then, I mean.... using coloured models obviously isnt cheating?
Well anyway enough of that, because that is just silly, especially coming from a CS Liaison. :/
regarding moving targets post:
"Er, no. I don't quite use server crash .cfgs and OGC. Thanks. And I don't quite see it as cheating otherwise they wouldn't have a skin and model site on the actual CS webby "
There are many kinds of cheat, from certain console commands, to full blown server crashers...
All are cheats, and must be dealt with, the area we have for cheating is still a grey area for many things, that are almost as effective as using a wallhack.
People only bother to notice "OGC" and high profile aimbots...
Aimbots are nothing towards the problem of cheating in CS. The problem of cheating in CS and indeed in all online games is the subtle cheats. The ones that arent easy to spot, the "aides" that assist players in certain ways to improve performance.
Certain "aides" or "tweaks" are allowed, most are not, or at least shouldnt be.
Anyone remember Lambert ?
That gave such a big advantage to any user of it that is ludicrous how it was accepted amongst many clanned players for many months.
Same is happening for custom models/sounds now.
They give unfair advantages just like lambert, but arent spiked models/wallhacks, they can be so effective in the hands of a good player, more so than a wallhack could help you. They are so easy to hide, but they dont even have to be hidden, because most of you accept it.
Youre telling me you wouldnt mind playing a clanmatch against people who used custom models/sounds giving them a distinct advantage over you ?
If you dont mind that then why mind aimbotters or wallhackers, or people who use coloured models?
Ok, so I've covered custom weapons and custom playermodels... All be it in a wittering sort of muddled way, but its late and I am ill
I wont bother with sounds, but its quite obvious how lethal they could be....
Lets move onto the high fps models that many, including dolly uses.
I myself used these for a short period of time due to my low pc specs, I quickly changed realising how dodgy they were.
First thing, they are made from old cheat models. The author of them simply used the default cheating model and resized the head to "normal" size.
Everything else about them was constructed by a cheater, someone like a member of myg0t/HLH/mpcheats etc.
The models themselves stand taller than default models, the head is bigger, they are cuboid, so they stick out that little bit more due to sharp corners....
They arent hitbox accurate, they are still withing the hitbox size in some places, and in others they are bigger.
For example of you duck behind a box like one on prodigy, say... the small wooden boxes with green tarpaulin on them, if you duck behind one of those with default models, depending on the angle you would perhaps just be spotted by someone looking at it, due to a tiny bit of sticking out, however this alternates as the model breathes.
If you duck with the high fps models, due to the squareness of the head, and the fact its oversized, you can see them quite clearly, from even a flat on angle. You can clearly see a corner of the head popping above the box. This gives you instant notification of someone behind it, and therefore near instant death to the poor person behind it.
This is a distinct advantage, akin to spiked models, although on a smaller scale, it is still cheating.
We must draw the line between cheats and legit play.
As I said there is a firm idea of what cheating is to most... namely aimbot/wallhack/spiked models...
And there is also a fairly firm idea of what players think are legit... namely... any custom skin from skinshack, any custom weapon model, any custom sound......
In reality nearly all of custom skins/custom weapons (not v_)/ custom sounds.... give advantages over others, which arent meant to occur...
I've said loads, and cba to reread it or put it forward in a neater way as I feel kinda nasty
I hope some of you can see my point regarding most of these things. We must combat all forms of cheating, not just aimbotters/wallhackers, but all things that give unfair advantages, within a certain point. CS should be played with default models/skins/weaponmodels/weaponskins/sounds.
I wont even get onto things like the "duckjump" script and "walkhack". Those are both cheating as well, due to unfair advantages given by them (mostly the walkhack, duckjump script isnt as bad, but is still unfair.)
Anyway, fin.
