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old.mattshanes
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- #31
Crush will always be the best in my opinion
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Meatballs
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- #32
aye stick with slash everyone, dont want any crush users battering me when my armour changes
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old.Kladen
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- #33
neither coz crush is crap on hibbies and slash is crap on middies.
thrust is good on hibbies and good on middie (sep zerker,sb,hunter) hunters are easy, zerkers own you anyway, sb would be a bitch. but everything else has no penalty
thrust is good on hibbies and good on middie (sep zerker,sb,hunter) hunters are easy, zerkers own you anyway, sb would be a bitch. but everything else has no penalty
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Azal
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- #34
Well Crush is a cutie kobby, and everyone knows kobby > everything so who's this slash minger anyway?
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old.mattshanes
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- #35
Kladen crush is + on some hibbies!
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Aeternus
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- #36
Malev, with heros having both slam, spear or LW skills on same char, theres nothing wrong with that... they are trained fighters.
WIth champions, we have to choose either between LW or shield champ.
They both have benefits, LW champs can use both slash and crush weapons + get awesome debuffs...
Shield champs have to choose between slash,thrust or crush, but recive the benefit of a shield for slam, engage (was that an arrow or a fly hitting me?) and guard for defending other group members.
I think both classes are very well balanced, at the moment its just the patches limiting us champs...
Pure tank classes get the benefit of pretty much being able to attack any target and having some chance.... hybrids on the other hand need more tactic, but can as well get enourmous benefits against well chosen targets.
WIth champions, we have to choose either between LW or shield champ.
They both have benefits, LW champs can use both slash and crush weapons + get awesome debuffs...
Shield champs have to choose between slash,thrust or crush, but recive the benefit of a shield for slam, engage (was that an arrow or a fly hitting me?) and guard for defending other group members.
I think both classes are very well balanced, at the moment its just the patches limiting us champs...
Pure tank classes get the benefit of pretty much being able to attack any target and having some chance.... hybrids on the other hand need more tactic, but can as well get enourmous benefits against well chosen targets.
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old.Kladen
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- #37
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old.willowywicca
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- #38
Kinda missed my point completely aet, my point is that I don't see why an IDENTICALLY specced and stated champ and hero will do massively different dmg, and take greatly different amounts of dmg per hit too.. I said why I think this shouldn't be the case (as there are the other factors to diffrentiate them, and that the heros greater hits should be what makes him last longer, not a hidden dmg table making him take less dmg per hit than a champ for no visible reason)..
And also it's becos of this crap with heros taking less dmg per hit, and hybrids taking more, that is the very reason that we ever *needed* a + con self buff in the first place, if we took dmg like hero's do our hits would last longer.. and they wouldn't be adding in a con buff for us to fix this stupid problem
Mal
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mid_Efour
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- #39
surely slash !
You still think crush?
Every alb is will be neutral to slash? thats better than the -15% im used to now as a sword user so no bonus is a BIG bonus to me in the future.
Hib tanks will be vun. to slash i like this alot.
Mids vun. to thrust, even more so than now. Cant really recal last time i killed anyone holding a huge thrusting halberd thingy anyway, i was too bust eating dirt after 4 hits so no changes there.
As for swords and axes, is axe really alot better?? I mean realllly better. does it have stun styles ? hmm im going to have a read
night night
You still think crush?
Every alb is will be neutral to slash? thats better than the -15% im used to now as a sword user so no bonus is a BIG bonus to me in the future.
Hib tanks will be vun. to slash
i like this alot.Mids vun. to thrust, even more so than now. Cant really recal last time i killed anyone holding a huge thrusting halberd thingy anyway, i was too bust eating dirt after 4 hits
so no changes there.As for swords and axes, is axe really alot better?? I mean realllly better. does it have stun styles ? hmm im going to have a read
night night
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Aeternus
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- #40
Yes but champs are supposed to be weaker, were the hybrid class... we take more damage, our debuffs are there to even it up... if we had same damage table as heros.
What would the point be to have heros? Everyone would pick champ then... would totaly ruin the Hero class...
We got the str/con selfbuff because we are too weak... but we arent supposed to be too strong, like heros... cause we got debuffs and a dd... only benefit heros got over champs, is excatly their ability to last longer and put more power into their weapon specs...
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old.willowywicca
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- #41
Why not have their be a larger difference in hits between the two classes, why use what is effectively an invisible measure to make heros tougher? I don't see it as making sense at all. As for heros not having benefits other than what you said.. I went through that in a previous post already
Mal
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Sarnat
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- #42
Mid spears are slash or crush, depending on spear type.
All realms have same arrows. Broadhead arrows do slash, others do thrust. Next patch also adds x-heavy damage arrows for crush and thrust damage types for all realms (so far only x-heavy dmg has been slash).
If this was mentioned already, I didnt have time to read all of it.
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SilverHood
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- #43
An armsman with stealth and a pole arm?
never seen a crush spear, and until I do, I'll say the only spear types are Slash and thrust.
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Sarnat
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- #44
Re: surely slash !
Actually I think it's less in 1.52. Now it's 15% penalty and next patch only 10%. Not absolutely sure about this though.
Actually I think it's less in 1.52. Now it's 15% penalty and next patch only 10%. Not absolutely sure about this though.
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Sarnat
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- #45
This is what happens when you post too tired. Thrust I meant, obviously.
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old.Mitsu
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- #46
I would stick to slash. Amethyst slash is an amazing style.
Very high bonus to-hit is good
Very high bonus to-hit is good
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Aeternus
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- #47
Originally posted by old.willowywicca
Why not have their be a larger difference in hits between the two classes, why use what is effectively an invisible measure to make heros tougher? I don't see it as making sense at all. As for heros not having benefits other than what you said.. I went through that in a previous post already
Mal
What other possibilities would there be? To raise their hp to moose level? That would inbalance the game, mages wouldnt be able to kill heros.... and every other tank in the game would be screaming for "nerf the hero!!"
I think as it is now, works just fine... why are you even complaining, your on the top of the rp list? Im the one who needs 15-30 hits to kill other realm tanks..
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old.willowywicca
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- #48
*ahem* the reason casters can't kill heros is cos they're on different dmg tables.. a caster does far more dmg to another caster than to a tank.. instead all should taking equal damage (modified by armour maybe and of course resists) somewhere in the middle of where the two current extremes lie. Hero's having more hits wouldn't cause this problem for casters if their dmg wasn't reduced on them too
As for being top of rps.. wtf has that to do with anything??
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mid_Efour
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- #49
hahaha u sure??
I dont have screenshots but i regularly get nuked for 600 by fire ball thingys, pesky albs.
and when alb had all 3 power relics, lol i was dying so fast it wasnt funny.
I love the sound of it though, like artillery coming in on Efours head.
I dont have screenshots but i regularly get nuked for 600 by fire ball thingys, pesky albs.
and when alb had all 3 power relics, lol i was dying so fast it wasnt funny.
I love the sound of it though, like artillery coming in on Efours head.
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old.willowywicca
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- #50
Re: hahaha u sure??
well I typically get bolted for ~300 damage, which hardly compares to casters who can get hit for 1k without a crit ...
well I typically get bolted for ~300 damage, which hardly compares to casters who can get hit for 1k without a crit ...
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Brannor McThife
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- #51
Casters hit for 1K?!? BY WHAT?!? Hell, I hit grey con Hibs for 600. My Tyr's Fury can hit a mage for 680 MAX. Don't know where you get that number from, please tell me what hits that hard. Maybe a PA from Azal or Death when they're buffed.
As for Mages, well, lets leave that alone... A luri caster can stun me, and then PBAoE me for 407 4 times (inside of 8 seconds) (dead) while I just stand there...not only that, but I have been PBAoE'd for over 600 regularly by Meepthor. Nerf PBAoE IMHO. Don't give it to all realms, remove it or make it weaker. Inside the time it takes me to hit twice with my 1-H axe, he can get off 2 PBAoE, and if he has bubble, I die.
Rather than level the playing fields to make everything Balanced, this game has and is continually being fooked up by Mythic developers who believe balance works by overpowerring a few classes, which then "makes the realms balanced". You're going to end up with a few classes simply not being played because the others are all over powerred against them. Like warriors...who can use crush, but it sucks, and are highly prone to the primary tanks of the other realms. Spero's and thrust polemen OWN Warriors.
-G
As for Mages, well, lets leave that alone... A luri caster can stun me, and then PBAoE me for 407 4 times (inside of 8 seconds) (dead) while I just stand there...not only that, but I have been PBAoE'd for over 600 regularly by Meepthor. Nerf PBAoE IMHO. Don't give it to all realms, remove it or make it weaker. Inside the time it takes me to hit twice with my 1-H axe, he can get off 2 PBAoE, and if he has bubble, I die.
Rather than level the playing fields to make everything Balanced, this game has and is continually being fooked up by Mythic developers who believe balance works by overpowerring a few classes, which then "makes the realms balanced". You're going to end up with a few classes simply not being played because the others are all over powerred against them. Like warriors...who can use crush, but it sucks, and are highly prone to the primary tanks of the other realms. Spero's and thrust polemen OWN Warriors.
-G
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old.willowywicca
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- #52
casters bolt other casters for that much slightly less with full epic armours and high resists, but significantly more than thy hit tanks for
trelawney's personal best being a bolt for 1019ish (his cap) + a crit of 700 ish on a yellow con enemy caster.
trelawney's personal best being a bolt for 1019ish (his cap) + a crit of 700 ish on a yellow con enemy caster.
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Aeternus
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- #53
Originally posted by old.willowywicca
*ahem* the reason casters can't kill heros is cos they're on different dmg tables.. a caster does far more dmg to another caster than to a tank.. instead all should taking equal damage (modified by armour maybe and of course resists) somewhere in the middle of where the two current extremes lie. Hero's having more hits wouldn't cause this problem for casters if their dmg wasn't reduced on them too
As for being top of rps.. wtf has that to do with anything??
In general casters do a lot more damage... tanks hit me for around 100, some 2 handers go over 200.
Alb fire wiz, bam 300+ damage... and those nasty mid mages, no idea what... 800 damage!!! NERF! I got nearly 30% in all resists, what on earth hits me for 800 damage!
I still think the game would be imbalanced if heros got more health... what about other realm tanks? Wouldnt they start whining if all heros had constant moose hp. Then they would need to raise their hp and with that wed be having champs at silly hp and then wed be screaming for nerfing other tanks.... leaving us where we are today... so...
I dont know why you see it as something bad? Heroes do more damage and got more hp... it could have something to do with the fact their primary stats are str and con, which go up as they level... they also get more hp per con? Eitherway, their str affects their weaponskill differently than champions or do they just have higher base weaponskill?
I think I missed the part about the hidden damage table you were speaking off. Personaly im very happy with my class and I know it will get better by each patch...
The only thing I could complain about is the end drain on using dd... and how inbalanced snare is considered to its cost.
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Danya
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- #54
Snare's bugged, it gets fixed in 1.53...
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old.willowywicca
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- #55
Well brannor hit me for near 400 dmg without a crit on his axe styles, casters rarely do more over 300 at best.
And my point is not merely about heros and champs, I am taking about tanks in all 3 realms, using merely heros/champs as an example (since I feel best qualified to discuss them) since the situation is the same in all realms..
As for missing my point about the hidden dmg tables.. well that's what my whole rant is about, none of it makes sense without that.. an example of the hidden dmg tables is as follows: Two midgards, a warrior with 26% crush resist in chain, and a thane with 26% crush resist in chain. Both are in epic armours so have capped af at 635. both are in the same type of armour so have the same absorb. Unstyled, I hit a warrior for about 100 damage, unstyled I hit the thane for 150 damage. WHY? because of the hidden damage tables. warriors are on pure tank/fighter dmg tables, whilst thanes are on the hybrid dmg tables.. and this invisible and highly affecting modifier (dmg -33% on pure tank compared to hybrid WTF?!? ) is what I think is wrong.
btw only thing that hits me for over 750 dmg since I've been 50 is archers. Never been hit that hard by a caster.
Mal
oh, and champ primary stat is str, it goes up as much as a heros does (ie +45 from original base at lvl50). it's our other stats which are different (dex + int) as opposed to con + dex (I think).
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Brannor McThife
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- #56
Hope you don't mind me posting it Mal, but I thought showing the damage difference might help.
Me = L50 warrior, using a DF shield and 1-H 99% arcanium axe and a 94% prince 2-H axe. 26% Crush resist. 50 Axe (+1 RR at the time), 44 shield (+- 10), 37 parry (+- 8)
-G
Me = L50 warrior, using a DF shield and 1-H 99% arcanium axe and a 94% prince 2-H axe. 26% Crush resist. 50 Axe (+1 RR at the time), 44 shield (+- 10), 37 parry (+- 8)
-G
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old.mattshanes
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- #57
Brannor how much hp and af do you have?
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Brannor McThife
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- #58
Unbuffed, roughly 1560 I think. AF I can't tell you offhand...Dunno, what's the cap? I am wearing my epic armour. AF100 100%. I'll take a screeny of my stats tonight for you.
-G
-G
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old.mattshanes
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- #59
Not bad i think i can get 1600+ when mine alt is 50 hes 1300 at the moment.
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Danya
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- #60
AF cap is 635, you should be hitting that in epic (I do).
I've noticed the difference clearly hitting tanks vs others... I rarely get above 150 on a midgard tank with my guarded rapier (16.4 dps, 3.5 spd, 98% quality, 35% bonus), yet I have hit healers for over 200. Partly that may be due to tanks having better thrust resist of course but it's still a large difference.
I've noticed the difference clearly hitting tanks vs others... I rarely get above 150 on a midgard tank with my guarded rapier (16.4 dps, 3.5 spd, 98% quality, 35% bonus), yet I have hit healers for over 200. Partly that may be due to tanks having better thrust resist of course but it's still a large difference.