Crazy Thoughts

[old.Tohtori]

Immortality as far as the physical body is concerned is easily disproved

If we take a default human yes, but as such, if we were to hypothise a bit, if there was a "immortal being", such as say, vampire, we couldn't prove it was immortal for infinate time any more then space and it's vastnes.

 

[Lamp]

Its too early to tell obviously, but i don´t believe in the big bang theory and everything that goes with it. This could all be a dream as far as i know...

edit: No point in arguing philosophical points of view, just think that science is a bit overrated, was not my intention to start a flamewar..

Okies. Fair enough. That the universe is expanding and did in fact originate from a single point (called a singularity) is accepted by the scientific community as a provable physical fact. Provable not only from observations from optical and radio telescopes, but by mathematics.

But you're entitled to believe anything you like.

You can belive the moon is made of pork chops if you like...

 

[Lamp]

If we take a default human yes, but as such, if we were to hypothise a bit, if there was a "immortal being", such as say, vampire, we couldn't prove it was immortal for infinate time any more then space and it's vastnes.

This is getting silly.

 

[Iceforge]

Now, immortality is a rather odd subject to be debating, as sure, Old.Tohtori is right that if such a being as a vampire did truely exist, then we could not prove it to be immortal, as we would then have to be there and observe it for unlimited time to vertify the claim.

By the same standards, we can not prove the Theory of Gravity, as no matter how many times we drop an object and watch it fall down, we can not vertify that if we did it constantly, again and again, until the end of time, it would fall every single time. We cannot prove that after <insert absurb big number> times, the object will just hang still in the air instead of falling down.

It is a fallacy in science that most scientists are aware off.
The fact that you cannot prove something beyond the shadow of a doubt is not something that worries scientists as much as it interests them.

It is excatly due to that fact that all thigns science comes out with are labelled Theories. Their theories are backed up by tremendous mountains of evidence and facts, and withstands the test of time, but due to the fact that there is never 100% certainty about any theory, there is always the possibility that we in the future come up with a more satisfying, logical and true theory that has more evidence and with evidence that falsify the previously established theory.

That doesn't mean, however, that the things stated by sceince is guess-work or something one should disregard like Fettoken do with Big Bang, because they are the best and most likely explanations for things that we can come up with.

Being sceptical and saying one is not truely convinced is great. Disregarding completely is dangerous however.

 

[tris-]

Its too early to tell obviously, but i don´t believe in the big bang theory and everything that goes with it. This could all be a dream as far as i know...

what is your own theory on how the universe and everything in it came into existence?

 

[fettoken]

what is your own theory on how the universe and everything in it came into existence?

Lets say i haven´t decided what to believe yet. Maybe we´ll find out when we die, or not

 

[Ezteq]

i dunno about the universe or anything but i suspect i may be a zombie or a vampire...they are always called The undead, well i dont want to alarm any of you but i reciently went in to hospital and well, the thing is, i am definately alive, when i looked this condition up in the dictionary it said that alive is the opposite of dead and Un is used to contradict something
rated, underated, attractive, unattractive... etc etc and so on and so forth

well when i looked at all the evidence its clear to me that i am infact an Undead but im not sure which sort, im asleep by 22:00 at the latest and i like garlic so im not a vampire (dammit i mean they are sexy but not me) and i have no intention of ever eating brains even looking at them in a supermarket makes me feel sick so im not a zombie, im also not a ghost because technically they are dead...and im not nor am i a werewolf as i tend to wear a lot of silver jewellry.

so i just have to live day to day with my condition, always searching for the truth about what i am and hoping that the next leap will be the leap home

do doo do doo do do doo do doo do do do doo do do doo do doo do dooo nanananana na na na na laa daa laa daa laa daa daaa

oh boy.

 

[old.Tohtori]

This is getting silly.

Not really, it was just to elaborate the point i was making more.

Iceforge, exactly, "disregarding" anything is dangerous. But at the same time, i have to say, that i'm more convinced of a god being up there poking at things, then of a never-ever-ending cosmos. Without going into detail on how much i'm convinced on either.

 

[Iceforge]

Not really, it was just to elaborate the point i was making more.

Iceforge, exactly, "disregarding" anything is dangerous. But at the same time, i have to say, that i'm more convinced of a god being up there poking at things, then of a never-ever-ending cosmos. Without going into detail on how much i'm convinced on either.

I understand that. Specially seeing how I personally has never heard of this "void" anywhere else than here. It makes sense in the respect that something expanding should expand out into something, but that doesn't necessarily make it true. Some evidence pointing to it, besides the before mentioned, would be sweet, but seeing how it is by defnition unfalsifyable, it can't be regarded at all as science.

The void would be characterized as follows, if I gather rigth from Lamps posts:

1) 100% Devoid of matter, as matter has not yet expanded out into it.
2) 100% Devoid of light, as there are no light sources out there.

= It can't be measure, weighted, observed, nothing.

If something is not falsifyable, it is not science...

 

[old.Tohtori]

If something is not falsifyable, it is not science...

Ah but saying "there is a god" is a falsifiable statement, as one can't disprove, but could possibly prove, such a thing, in context to empty space, which can't be disproven, but could be proved

No?

 

[old.Tohtori]

But not to keep this thread about one subject alone, i have one for you:

How far east do you have to go, to be considered in the west?

 

[Iceforge]

Ah, you misunderstand!

For something to be testable to be true the following have to be true:

"If the statement is true, it should be possible to use the statement to make a prediction that you can then check the validity off"

For something to be falsifyable the following have to be true:

"If the statement is false, it should be possible to prove it to be false"

If god does exist, it is NOT possible to prove it to be true
If god doesn't exist, it is NOT possible to prove it to be false

Hence, it has no scientific merit, aka. it is impossible to know god's existance to be true.

Or the immortal issue:

If someone is immortal, it is NOT possible to prove it to be true
If someone is immortal, it is NOT possible to prove it to be false

Hence it has no scientific merit either.

 

[Iceforge]

But not to keep this thread about one subject alone, i have one for you:

How far east do you have to go, to be considered in the west?

Oh! Thats actually a good one

 

[Binky the Bomb]

But not to keep this thread about one subject alone, i have one for you:

How far east do you have to go, to be considered in the west?

By tradition, in Europe, regardless of your starting position.
But mathematically, from 1cm past your starting point.

 

[Lamp]

Lets say i haven´t decided what to believe yet. Maybe we´ll find out when we die, or not

So you can't even postulate your own thoughts and yet the Big Bang is "bullshit" ?

The fingers type. The mouth moves. The eyes blink, but Mr Brain has long since departed

 

[Himse]

What gets me is people saying like "We are the only life in the universe"

Utter bull, somewhere there are some other forms of life, i know it, you all know it.

Who knows what they might be, what they can do, but i can bet a million pounds they are not small, big headed green men.

 

[Lamp]

Agree. It is wholly arrogant and probably naive to assume mankind is the only life in our universe

According to NASA, there is an estimated 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. stars in the universe !

(The Number of Stars)

Our sun is just one star

 

[Iceforge]

I, for one, hope we never meet other lifeforms during my lifetime!

because, let's face it, the stars which we will be able to reach within our lifetime is all known to be barren without life, with the possible exception of Europa, where there could exist life in the liquid ocean below the ice surface (unlikely due to the conditions for proteins to be formed and to then form DNA are probarly not existing)

So, if we should meet another lifeform from another planet during our lifetime, it would probarly be alien visitors coming to us, which would mean that they are technologically superior to us. (they could find and come to us, but we couldn't find or go to them)

And well, we all know what happened historically here on earth when 1 superior civilization meet an inferior civilization, right?
Like Europeans going to africa and making the natives into slaves?
Or Europeans finding America and starting to kill off the natives?
It sucked to be the inferior natives, and we are even the same species! The odds of another species from another planet who can come here being in any way simuliar to us are pretty low.

One must just hope that they will see us with petty and curiousity rather than kill us. But seeing how they are technologically superior to us, one could hope they are also more "humane" than us and spare us.

EDIT: Or put us into Zoo's and let us live the rest of our lifes being fed and mating! BOOOYAA!

 

[Bugz]

But not to keep this thread about one subject alone, i have one for you:

How far east do you have to go, to be considered in the west?

Well theoritically, if you wanted to travel to a location eastwards, you could go westwards and still reach that destination.

So I guess, by going any manner east, you are going east but there is still a distance west that can be measured.

 

[Bugz]

One must just hope that they will see us with petty and curiousity rather than kill us. But seeing how they are technologically superior to us, one could hope they are also more "humane" than us and spare us.

I don't know about you but technological advances have hardly made us more humane!

 

[old.Tohtori]

Ah, you misunderstand*snip*ntific merit either.

Ah, misunderstood it a bit, yes. Thanks for clearing it. Though the earlier point stands in my mind atleast, about "god" being easier to prove(evne if only by a god) then an infinite universe

Well theoritically, if you wanted to travel to a location eastwards, you could go westwards and still reach that destination.

So I guess, by going any manner east, you are going east but there is still a distance west that can be measured.

Ofcourse, but when is it "kosher" to say that you're in the east instead of west? Could we look at the flattened map and point there using Greenwich as a reference point? But how could that be, ironic as it may, as we disproved earths flatness a while back


About other life beings, people really need to stop in so limited ways about life. There's living rock on earth even, that engulfs whole forests, so how about a rock based lifeform? Or even fire elementals if you will? Other life forms are out there, and they've probably popped in here aswell, but it reminds of an old story(para):

"500 years ago, a ship sailed to one of the paradise islands, shot a couple of natives, fired a few cannons and left, never to be heard again. To the islanders, this would be equal to us seeing an alien mothership."

 

[Vasconcelos]

I, for one, hope we never meet other lifeforms during my lifetime!

because, let's face it, the stars which we will be able to reach within our lifetime is all known to be barren without life, with the possible exception of Europa, where there could exist life in the liquid ocean below the ice surface (unlikely due to the conditions for proteins to be formed and to then form DNA are probarly not existing)

So, if we should meet another lifeform from another planet during our lifetime, it would probarly be alien visitors coming to us, which would mean that they are technologically superior to us. (they could find and come to us, but we couldn't find or go to them)

And well, we all know what happened historically here on earth when 1 superior civilization meet an inferior civilization, right?
Like Europeans going to africa and making the natives into slaves?
Or Europeans finding America and starting to kill off the natives?
It sucked to be the inferior natives, and we are even the same species! The odds of another species from another planet who can come here being in any way simuliar to us are pretty low.

One must just hope that they will see us with petty and curiousity rather than kill us. But seeing how they are technologically superior to us, one could hope they are also more "humane" than us and spare us.

EDIT: Or put us into Zoo's and let us live the rest of our lifes being fed and mating! BOOOYAA!

One hopes that with techonlogy achievments, ethical and phylosophic knowledge of life (in its more conceptual term) development come along. I'd highly doubt that in a more advanced context, the spaniards would have wiped the aztecs or brits and frenchs the africans. Well, however, there are always George Bush'es around

Just pray that we meet a Ghandi type alien leader and not "Condolece Rice meets Predator"

 

[Iceforge]

One hopes that with techonlogy achievments, ethical and phylosophic knowledge of life (in its more conceptual term) development come along. I'd highly doubt that in a more advanced context, the spaniards would have wiped the aztecs or brits and frenchs the africans. Well, however, there are always George Bush'es around

Just pray that we meet a Ghandi type alien leader and not "Condolece Rice meets Predator"

If the "Condolece Rice meets Predator" case came through, they would probarly be nice at first, then crash one of their aircrafts down on earth, claim we did it in an act of terror and then carpet bomb the shit out of us in the name of intergalactical defense

 

[Lamp]

I have no idea what a meeting between intelligent aliens and mankind would be like. Interesting (to put it mildly)

What I do know is that if mankind wanted to reach distant galaxies, in the absence of the existence of wormholes, we'd need to come up with a propulsion system capable of driving space craft greater than light speed velocities because distances in space are unimaginable vast.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I have no idea what a meeting between intelligent aliens and mankind would be like. Interesting (to put it mildly)

What I do know is that if mankind wanted to reach distant galaxies, in the absence of the existence of wormholes, we'd need to come up with a propulsion system capable of driving space craft greater than light speed velocities because distances in space are unimaginable vast.

Or, create animation suspension/chryogenics to a point where humans can survive the trip.

which comes first, well, anyones guess.

 

[Lamp]

It would have to be unbelievably good cryogenics.

Just suppose we can make a space ship capable of light speed. A planet a million light years away would take our ship a million years to get there.

Who would we tell back home about what we found ? Our messages would also take a million years to get back to earth !

The solution would have to be based on faster than light speed technology. Or be able to manipulate the space time continuum.

Take a piece of paper. Whats the shortest distance between 2 points ? A line ? Yes. In 2D. But in 3D the shortest distance is zero. Bend the paper in half and join the points together.

 

[Lethul]

About other life beings, people really need to stop in so limited ways about life. There's living rock on earth even, that engulfs whole forests, so how about a rock based lifeform?"

Aint that just a giant Fungus? Or you on to something else? Give url

 

[Lethul]

Take a piece of paper. Whats the shortest distance between 2 points ? A line ? Yes. In 2D. But in 3D the shortest distance is zero. Bend the paper in half and join the points together.

If you make it more of a ball then, that i guess is the shape universe has (almost). How are you supposed to bend a ball?

 

[Lamp]

If you make it more of a ball then, that i guess is the shape universe has (almost). How are you supposed to bend a ball?

The "shape" of the universe is something scientists don't agree on. Some say its saddle-shaped, some say its a torus (donut shaped), some say its spherical.

Either way, only a force such as gravity could "curve" space-time. How it would do so to bend space back on itself is anyone's guess.

What we do know is that gravity DOES bend space-time. Black holes are a classic example.

 

[old.Tohtori]

It would have to be unbelievably good cryogenics.

Aye, as equally impressive as a multi-light speed engines on spaceships