Crazy American Cop

[CorNokZ]

Abuse of power imo.. A good cop wouldn't have been so agressive and went for the headlock straight away

Hope he gets sacked! What a fat fuck

 

[old.Tohtori]

Will answer generally, but will start with:

There is a massive difference between three 12-13 year olds who skateboarded a public staircase. And three 17-20 year old chavs who jump someone on a streetcorner.

Chavs have no age difference in UK peeps books(those who want chavs dead), so why should i start using age as a criteria there?

The point is, if it was "chavs" on that video, most of the people here would be hanging them. Only one person, after i said it, said "wouldn't think differently" and that's it. But i'm not assuming anyone would admit to it.

About the rest.

Age also has no relevance in criminals. 20 year old, 13 year old, same way you're going down. And how he went down, isn't at all bad. I've taken WAY worse falls if i trip. Bruised ego, that's it.

REsisting arrest, or confiscation, is ALWAYS DUMB. Do it the legal way, complain to a station, get your sh*t back, but don't go against an officer.

The kid tried to keep his skateboard, the officer wanted it, officer took appropriate measures. What should he do? Just sya "Ok, give it here. Please. Give it...no? How about now?" NO. If you don't comply after first warning, then you go down. He even, as one would expect from a kid, tried to grab it back from the officer. Seriously.

But mostly this is about people defending the same "pieces of sh*t" they'd hang in an instant with a different topic.

READ: I don't think the officer was right in doing so. And i DO think it could've been handled differently. Facts are; the kids weren't really respectful. The officer wasn't as nice as "should". The kid didn't get "abused", just a bruised ego.

End of day? Big deal.

 

[leviathane]

really can't agree with you, but guess that's your choice of opinion i'm not gonna force you to change.

 

[old.Tohtori]

really can't agree with you, but guess that's your choice of opinion i'm not gonna force you to change.

Oh ofcourse it's no matter of "agree with me or suck eggs!", just voicing my opinion.

I've been a bit "on the edge" anger wise a few days, so my posting may seem more hostile then it should.

 

[Huntingtons]

well toh, the cop has to say he wants to confiscate it or search him. if the kid says no or i dont not consent any illigal searches and the cop do it anyway anything he takes cannot be used in court. Whenever a cop asks they have no right to do what they ask. its simple. (although resisting it does not help you). this is why i vouch strongly for classes in private rights in elementary schools and highschools (possibly collages and unis as well)

(although under arrest he can search as he likes but what is confiscated while being searched has to be within the reason of getting arrested i think, been a while since i watched FlexYourRights)

 

[Iceforge]

The only real concern I had after that video, which I would act on if I was the parent of the kid in the video, is that fact that he actually threatens the life and body of the youngster. It is on video. The line can not be defended under any circumstance:

"I am officer Reveery (sp?), the sooner you learn that, the longer you're gonna live in this world" implying that the officer will kill him if he calls him "man" or "dude". There is no other interpretation possible.

 

[Mey]

well toh, the cop has to say he wants to confiscate it or search him. if the kid says no or i dont not consent any illigal searches and the cop do it anyway anything he takes cannot be used in court. Whenever a cop asks they have no right to do what they ask. its simple. (although resisting it does not help you). this is why i vouch strongly for classes in private rights in elementary schools and highschools (possibly collages and unis as well)

(although under arrest he can search as he likes but what is confiscated while being searched has to be within the reason of getting arrested i think, been a while since i watched FlexYourRights)

If a police man has sufficient evidence to suggest that you are carrying illegal objects or have commited a crime then they can search you whether you like it or not.

In UK law the only time a search is "illegal" is if the police officer does not follow procedural obligiations (c.f. R.V. Fennelly.). Even in the case when a police officer does not specifiy the reason for the stop & search evidence obtain may still be used, as the means justifiy the end (theres case law but i'm under the influence and can't remeber it atm lol!).

In this case the cop was slightly heavy handed in his powers but by no means unjustified. The kid went out of his way to try and annoy the policeman and in the end faced the consquences.

 

[Blackjack]

If you don't comply after first warning, then you go down. He even, as one would expect from a kid, tried to grab it back from the officer. Seriously.

That sentence alone is soooo wrong.
If you don't comply after the first warning, you get several more warnings. The cop even starts out with threats of violence. Because the kid doesn't say exactly what he wanted to hear.

The kid never tries to take back the skateboard, as he is on the ground for every second that cop holds the skateboard.

The kid says "Don't take my skateboard, i didn't do anything dude" the response "You call me dude, one more time!" And he is being extremely aggresive to a kid... on the ground.
Well, Oh my fucking god, a teenager called you dude. Call the fucking NSA. Not like he called you pig, or asshole.
HE even knows he is out of line, because he knows he is in trouble if the camera was on.

As for the age thing. Age does play a role. The threat level increases with age in most cases. You can line up ANY group of three 13-14 year olds, and i will rip their heads off and shit down their neck if they jump me (unless i take a bat to the neck ofc). I can't say the same thing for the slightly older crowd.

Resisting arrest?! The kid wasn't being arrested, he wasn't even resisting for that matter. The cop never asked for the skateboard, he never gives any warning as to what will happen if the skateboard is not handed over. All things he had to do.

and Toth... these are still not the same pieces of shit who attacked random forumite #4, they were caught skateboarding a public place. They are not hardened criminals, mugging drunk people and old ladies.

People want alittle vigilante justice. Get back at the fuckers who ruin their neighbourhood, that's fine.
But this is the police we are talking about. And for this situation, he should have done alittle more protecting and serving, and alittle less assault and battery.

Even if the kid was being the most annoying brat. All the policeman had to do was say "If you keep that up, i WILL take you in for disturbing the peace." Then if the kid continued, he could then say "alright, you are comming with me." only now IF the kid resisted could he get physical.
A fully grown man, who is a police officer to boot. Should not be phased by a passive aggressive 14 year old. Who in my opinion isn't being too bad. He is a teenager, teenagers suck... plus, he is probably scared shitless.

 

[Fafnir]

Well we dont really know what they did before starting to film. A few months ago i had some kid run up to me and put a gun in my face so his buddies could film my reaction. He scared me shitless and he ended up with a broken nose and fractured jaw. All because they wanted some fun. Sure the cop goes over a line, but kids today really need to learn what respect is.

 

[Huntingtons]

oh yeah, its clearly the same comparence - he wasnt disrespectful! the cop was wrong doing what he did, period. he even got suspended without the parents charging him.

 

[Blackjack]

Well we dont really know what they did before starting to film. A few months ago i had some kid run up to me and put a gun in my face so his buddies could film my reaction. He scared me shitless and he ended up with a broken nose and fractured jaw. All because they wanted some fun. Sure the cop goes over a line, but kids today really need to learn what respect is.

You see, i would probably have done the same thing, that is just not OK, to put a gun in someones face.
And i have often wanted to smack around some smartass teen, who was being unbelieveably disrespectful.
But i'm not a cop. A police officer, is handed the badge, gun and uniform, and the power that comes with it. Because they have accepted the responsibility to be "better" than that. They are trusted with power, and expected to not use force unless it's absolutely necessary.

(Not at Fafnir )

 

[Mey]

oh yeah, its clearly the same comparence - he wasnt disrespectful! the cop was wrong doing what he did, period. he even got suspended without the parents charging him.

He got suspended with pay whilst they investigated the matter, seems pretty standard too me. He won't lose his job they are just doing it to save face with the general public.

 

[AngelHeal]

I would have never given up my skateboard like that.
The cop touches me without good reason..0800-I-SUE-YOU xD

 

[Mey]

Sue them for what exactly?

 

[Laddey]

kid got potatowned

 

[old.Tohtori]

*takes a deep breath*

That sentence alone is soooo wrong.
If you don't comply after the first warning, you get several more warnings. The cop even starts out with threats of violence. Because the kid doesn't say exactly what he wanted to hear.

Example, "Put the gun down!" "Put the gu down please?" etc. Ofcourse not the same(as some smarta would probably point out), but still, one warning is enough. Situational warnings etc, is situational. The problem in this point is, people think cops should be nice and act nice. They shouldn't. Opinion, can't be discussed.

The kid never tries to take back the skateboard, as he is on the ground for every second that cop holds the skateboard.

Watch it again, he gets pushed down, the kid TRIES to get up instantly and tries to grab his skateyboardy back. Only logical action, push the kid back down where he should stay. If you've been thrown to the ground by a police officer, the only action from you should be NONE. Stay down util you're let up. Don't try to get up and look like you're aggressive.

The kid says "Don't take my skateboard, i didn't do anything dude" the response "You call me dude, one more time!" And he is being extremely aggresive to a kid... on the ground.
Well, Oh my fucking god, a teenager called you dude. Call the fucking NSA. Not like he called you pig, or asshole.
HE even knows he is out of line, because he knows he is in trouble if the camera was on.

This i can't comment on, as you nor i don't know anything about what the kid di or didn't do. They could've taunted him to that point, as ALL officers have a breaking point. Extremely aggressive? At which point? He tried to get up, he simply nudged him back. There's no violence anywhere in that video.

As for the age thing. Age does play a role. The threat level increases with age in most cases. You can line up ANY group of three 13-14 year olds, and i will rip their heads off and shit down their neck if they jump me (unless i take a bat to the neck ofc). I can't say the same thing for the slightly older crowd.

YOU could maybe, but bring a group of 12-13 year olds and they would most likely kick my a**, most likely yours too. But that depends on the group size and such. Even with 3 13 year olds, no matter if you're a kung-fu king, the chances are you get beat.

Age has no relevance in regards of the law. As in, be a 20 year old and skate or a teenager and skate, you get punished the same. As it should be.

Resisting arrest?! The kid wasn't being arrested, he wasn't even resisting for that matter. The cop never asked for the skateboard, he never gives any warning as to what will happen if the skateboard is not handed over. All things he had to do.

REsisting arrest is a term, that i use loosely and you took too seriously. REsisting officers action better? If the officer wants your cr*p, give your cr*p.

and Toth... these are still not the same pieces of shit who attacked random forumite #4, they were caught skateboarding a public place. They are not hardened criminals, mugging drunk people and old ladies.

Moot point. If and or someone has been violent towards a forumite, isn't relevant in my point. The point is, that if those were "just chavs skating in park", you would(assume) probably be in the same group as the rest, saying they should've been killed or they deserved it.

People want alittle vigilante justice. Get back at the fuckers who ruin their neighbourhood, that's fine.
But this is the police we are talking about. And for this situation, he should have done alittle more protecting and serving, and alittle less assault and battery.

Vigilante justice is bullsh*t. Leave the justice to those who uphold it. So if this was any other guy shoving a kid to the ground, you'd be fine with it? But because he's a police officer, he can't? Probably why the PC cr*p is winning.

Questioning my "resisting arrest" comment and using words like assault and battery, in regards to THAT video, you must be kidding me.

Even if the kid was being the most annoying brat. All the policeman had to do was say "If you keep that up, i WILL take you in for disturbing the peace." Then if the kid continued, he could then say "alright, you are comming with me." only now IF the kid resisted could he get physical.

If he said that, they'd do nothing. If he said again, theyd do nothing. He might have even said it many times to them(you can't see it), and act like that. They could've skated right infront of the cop, banged on his hood, almost knocked down someone etc etc. You DON'T get punished for nothing. Only those who get beat up claim you do.

A fully grown man, who is a police officer to boot. Should not be phased by a passive aggressive 14 year old. Who in my opinion isn't being too bad. He is a teenager, teenagers suck... plus, he is probably scared shitless.

Yeah, probably really scared since he's brought up in such a fuzzy wamy state where police can't do sht if you act out. "Oh noes, he pushed him to the ground, battery assault sue sue!!". Anyone else see something wrong with that, especially if we take this forums common opinion on "yeah chavs should be hung and should be slapped all the time" into the equation?

The facts are:

Nothing happened. He got placed on the ground. He got pushed. Bruised ego and lost skateboard. Thecop was a dick, but so were the kids, but a cops a cop. Respect the "annoying f*ckers" for risking their lives.

And, that if those were chavs skating, people would be hanging them.

 

[Calaen]

They would not have been chavs though.

because a chavs response would have been fuck off you cock.

 

[kivik]

No I wouldn't. And while I'm at it, I think a 'chavs' action in that situation would differ some.

I still don't understand why you think the kid is being an asshat/annoyinf brat/whatever, elaborate please?

 

[kivik]

You DON'T get punished for nothing. Only those who get beat up claim you do.

Only those who haven't had a first-hand experience claim you don't.

 

[old.Tohtori]

No I wouldn't. And while I'm at it, I think a 'chavs' action in that situation would differ some.

I still don't understand why you think the kid is being an asshat/annoyinf brat/whatever, elaborate please?

I never said he was. So don't think i need to elaborate someone elses claim.

While few say "i wouldn't hang chavs" and that "chavs would act different", well, it doens't matter when it's chavs now does it?

Chavs are scum, no matter what, they should hang, no matter what. Right? No matter how sweet and innocent they were, just skating, chavs should hang. By majorities vote, as seen on this forum. Yet now, the kids did nothing and cop was bad.

Just found it quite amusing that there's quite a "difference", even if the setting was completely same.

Only those who haven't had a first-hand experience claim you don't.

In that kind of setting. Cops don't just pick you up from the street and bash your head in. Call it wrong place, wrong time, whatever, but there's always a reason behind it. And let's not bring racism etc into this, as i know there's "bad cops" who beat up people for the looks.

 

[Blackjack]

I'm sorry Toth, but even if he had a gun. He would have gotten multiple warnings. "Put the gun down" "PUT the gun down" (Unless he pointed the gun at someone)
You might not agree with how things should be done. But it is, non the less, the rules. Your action HAS to correspond to the threat as a cop. Unless you are being shot at, or instanly attacked. There is a "latter of force" that has to be followed, each step is closer to the highest level of force, which is of course shooting at someone. I'm not claiming i have been trained as a policeman by any means, but i was given a thorough course on this when i was in the military. And guess what my problem was, in many the of the workshop stations, where our reactions were tested during roleplay... Yeah, moving too fast up the latter of force.

He HAS to say, "give me the skateboard", "GIVE me the skateboard" "I WILL take it by force, if you do not hand over the skateboard" "Now, GIVE me the skateboard" and even if the kid resisted at this point and is on the ground. He should have said "STAY down" to begin with. As the kid obviously is not a fucking mindreader. The natural response is to get up. (As for getting up trying to get his skateboard... he barely gets his ass off the ground. I see no intention to grap the skateboard back anywhere)


You may find it retarded that the police has to conduct themselfs this way. But they do (here anyway, and i can't imagine it being much different elsewhere). Assess the situation, react, reassess, act again. Each time giving the step of the latter you are on, a chance to work. Unless there is a threat, that the individual will hurt the officer, a member of the public, or themselfs. Solve the situation with the least amount of force possible.



/edit PS; I stand by my statement; ANY group of three 13 year olds. Not trying to be a macho gimp, like i can take anyone on, because i can't. But i have never met a group of 13 year olds i wasn't 100% sure i could handle if it came to that. (Yes, even the great big fat ones Ez )

 

[Huntingtons]

actully toht, you said the kid was a dick "Thecop was a dick, but so were the kids" especially since the rest of the kids did nothing... and kivik wrote "whatever" so please, do elaborate on why you claim this

 

[Mey]

Blackjack you make loads of assumptions about what the police officer "HAS" to do in order to do anything but you don't back anything up with case law or procedural regulations. So where are you getting your information from? CSI?

 

[Huntingtons]

so do you of laws etc. back it up lol! -.-

 

[Blackjack]

Blackjack you make loads of assumptions about what the police officer "HAS" to do in order to do anything but you don't back anything up with case law or procedural regulations. So where are you getting your information from? CSI?

No, from what i mentioned before. What the police officers told me, when i went through the course in the army. I have a couple of friends who are training to become police officers atm. And (although TV is never a great source) in most documentaries following police. You will see how suspects get multiple warnings.

I'm sure we had someone in the police force here on the forum. I would love to have them chime in on this. I'm pretty sure i'm right. But i have not gone to the police accademy, and i wont start citing websites as evidence tbh *cough*

 

[Mey]

If a police man has sufficient evidence to suggest that you are carrying illegal objects or have commited a crime then they can search you whether you like it or not.

In UK law the only time a search is "illegal" is if the police officer does not follow procedural obligiations (c.f. R.V. Fennelly.). Even in the case when a police officer does not specifiy the reason for the stop & search evidence obtain may still be used, as the means justifiy the end (theres case law but i'm under the influence and can't remeber it atm lol!).

In this case the cop was slightly heavy handed in his powers but by no means unjustified. The kid went out of his way to try and annoy the policeman and in the end faced the consquences.

You want Case Law / Procedural obligations, Fine!

Baring in mind this applies to English Law which I stated anyway.

R v Mason (1988) Evidence accepted under s.76 PACE not automatically excluded from consideration under s.78. R v Sang (1980) Evidence gather unlawfully not automatically excluded; prejudicial effect must outweigh probative value. Ricketts v Cox (1982) Refusal to answer questions, together with conduct, may amount to obstruction. R v Fennelly (1989) Failure to give grounds for search renders it unlawful.

Procedural Obligiations for UK police officers when using/applying the powers of Stop and Search governed by PACE.

The purpose of the detention is to search
Their Name
Their Station
Why they are conducting the search
What they are looking for
Entitlement to a written record / explanation of police powers of stop and search, right's in these circumstances.

 

[Mey]

No, from what i mentioned before. What the police officers told me, when i went through the course in the army. I have a couple of friends who are training to become police officers atm. And (although TV is never a great source) in most documentaries following police. You will see how suspects get multiple warnings.

I'm sure we had someone in the police force here on the forum. I would love to have them chime in on this. I'm pretty sure i'm right. But i have not gone to the police accademy, and i wont start citing websites as evidence tbh *cough*

I'm studying criminology and a big part of my study focuses on the use / abuse of police powers. The cool thing is next year I get to do a module whilst being a Special (so you do your learning whilst working with the police) which will be good fun I hope.

 

[old.Tohtori]

actully toht, you said the kid was a dick "Thecop was a dick, but so were the kids" especially since the rest of the kids did nothing... and kivik wrote "whatever" so please, do elaborate on why you claim this

Well it was just an expression as such, meaning both could've done things to make the situation better.

Anyway, my original point wasn't towards "if he abused power", even if the discussion went to that area and what the PERSONAL feeling towards it is, but more towards the key points i said.

Mainly, there wasn't much more then a bruised ego there.
The cop didn't act that bad. As in, assault an innocent little kid and beat him down.
And that in a different people-set, people wouldn't defend the kids.

I forgot to edit back there, that yes, the skateboard was on the ground. I was wrong in that(undisbutably), but the point of staying down still stands.

Guess one could say that the cop went through the routine, but with too much zeal, but also it didn't help that the kid tried to interrupt him and such.

Whole thing would've been over if the kid had answered "Yes i can hear now.", because after that, the little pingpong of the discussion went to hell.

Also think, that went an officer approaches ou, you don't hold your skateoard close and try not to give it.

 

[Blackjack]

I'm studying criminology and a big part of my study focuses on the use / abuse of police powers. The cool thing is next year I get to do a module whilst being a Special (so you do your learning whilst working with the police) which will be good fun I hope.

Nice. Too bad you don't get to act like that cop, since it's against the rules *ZING*
I wouldn't make a good cop, i don't have the patience to deal with people. Do you get one of those funny hats too then?

 

[Huntingtons]

when a cop approaches me i say i dont consent in any illigal searches if im not in a free visitation zone which has been implented in major danish cities (would probably say it there as well, if i wasnt drunk!)