Could a BG archer have a valid role in a competative RVR group??

[Raven]

People are kinda forgetting that a RR5 Warrior or a Hero have a much much better surviability, but by all means try

the rr5 warrior maybe, but why the hero, the RR5 ability is bobbins

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Why waste a spot and take both?

Dunno, Paladin + Friar and Paladin + Armsman works for me from Albion's perspective.

From tank perspective on my Armsman I often ask the group simply to train down the Warden, he is in my opinion easier to kill than a Paladin/Warrior/Hero/Armsman even though 1 vs 1 fights last very long.

Friars die quite easy from my experience too, but maybe that's just the Albion players. No idea.

I didn't say Warden is a bad BG'er and Hero has to get the spot but on the paper heavy tanks are the best BG'ers:

Stoicism and det, biggest hit points, best magic immunity, better shouts, abitilty to have slam and still do damage with large weapons.

 

[gwal]

Basically was thinking...

if an archer went battle master for body guard.... hung back with the mages and support... Focused on RF/SS interuption, criting the mages, defensive grappeling, option of joining assist train...

with like 0 stealth prolly low PF and high bow and melee...

det, purge 3, ip2, PD, TS, some mop and fe.

Could the archer be like a competative and usefull member of the group... Would like a hardcore RVR group ever consider grouping with it???

ive considered it several times, but never rly gone any further.
but yes, should be perfectly viable, if the archer can stay alive decently vs assist trains (which is what i dunno if he can or not)

 

[Bubble]

the rr5 warrior maybe, but why the hero, the RR5 ability is bobbins

Well The moose Ability, high AF/Shield etc

 

[Bubble]

So you can chose between getting better interrupts and damage, or better resists. The question was "are rangers (or archers) valid in fg rvr as bg´er" and the answer is yes.

Wardens also have Healing etc, surely a Valewalker would make a Better BG if that was the case.

 

[noaim]

Wardens also have Healing etc, surely a Valewalker would make a Better BG if that was the case.

So valewalkers also have an ability that they can turn on/off whenever they want that reduce their nukedamage but makes em uninterruptable? That is news to me!

And it seems you still dont understand, so I´ll say it again. The question was if a bg archer could be valid, and the answer is yes, it could be valid. Get it now? Its not about if a bg archer is superior to any other bg´er and would perform 10 times as good, its about however it could work or not.

 

[Raven]

they have access to moc too, but with ofc reducing their other RAs

 

[Spetsnaz]

Dunno, Paladin + Friar and Paladin + Armsman works for me from Albion's perspective.

From tank perspective on my Armsman I often ask the group simply to train down the Warden, he is in my opinion easier to kill than a Paladin/Warrior/Hero/Armsman even though 1 vs 1 fights last very long.

Friars die quite easy from my experience too, but maybe that's just the Albion players. No idea.

I didn't say Warden is a bad BG'er and Hero has to get the spot but on the paper heavy tanks are the best BG'ers:

Stoicism and det, biggest hit points, best magic immunity, better shouts, abitilty to have slam and still do damage with large weapons.

well warden mayby lacking deffence of the hero/arms or any other heavy tank
but warden can utilize:
1) ml battlemaster styles: end drain/powerdrain/essenceflames/ML9-10 combo as anytimes (and ofc grapple+BG) and this combined with almost capped(/or capped) swing speed
2) perma resists for group (energy/spitir/body) with dmg add and pbt
3) extra healing power
4) TWF
5) and from my expierience is usually the last man standing on the field ...

 

[noaim]

they have access to moc too, but with ofc reducing their other RAs

And moc is on no timer and can be turned on/off whenever you want if you are a valewalker?

 

[Tallen]

well warden mayby lacking deffence of the hero/arms or any other heavy tank
but warden can utilize:
1) ml battlemaster styles: end drain/powerdrain/essenceflames/ML9-10 combo as anytimes (and ofc grapple+BG) and this combined with almost capped(/or capped) swing speed
2) perma resists for group (energy/spitir/body) with dmg add and pbt
3) extra healing power
4) TWF
5) and from my expierience is usually the last man standing on the field ...

From my experience Wardens are only the last man standing because good mid/alb groups realise they have the least influence on a fight and so are left till last.

Seriously, Wardens have laughable defensive capabilities and fold easier than any hib BGer.

Wardens are a great asset to a group, but they are not essential, nor are they tanks, nor are they druids. Anyone who plays one as such is wasting a group slot best kept for a tank or a druid.

As always, a good warden who knows how to play to his strengths situationally is a good asset to any group, a poor one (BG bot, grapple bot, healer who cant/wont fight) is a liability and the line between one and the other is very small.

 

[Vodkafairy]

friar with selfbuffs doesn't tank much less then a chainuser afaik? and thrust resistant armor is really nice

 

[Bubble]

And it seems you still dont understand, so I´ll say it again. The question was if a bg archer could be valid, and the answer is yes, it could be valid. Get it now? Its not about if a bg archer is superior to any other bg´er and would perform 10 times as good, its about however it could work or not.

Something you don't seem to understand then so i'll spell it out for you, if theres at least 3 other class's in the realm that would make a Better BG i guess the answer would be NO! So it is about which BG is Superior and which isn't.

Also a Ranger BG would be able to protect 1 Caster/healer, the other would be butchered since the ranger needs to keep still to use sureshot etc.

 

[Phoebee-v-]

From my experience Wardens are only the last man standing because good mid/alb groups realise they have the least influence on a fight and so are left till last.

Seriously, Wardens have laughable defensive capabilities and fold easier than any hib BGer.

Wardens are a great asset to a group, but they are not essential, nor are they tanks, nor are they druids. Anyone who plays one as such is wasting a group slot best kept for a tank or a druid.

As always, a good warden who knows how to play to his strengths situationally is a good asset to any group, a poor one (BG bot, grapple bot, healer who cant/wont fight) is a liability and the line between one and the other is very small.

A good BG warden can bring so much to the group you should kill him among the first in many cases. At least on camlann those few active warden's around that very good was a need to kill fast. Might been cause there was no real group's running with buffs and that the warden brings utility to a group w/o buffbot......

 

[noaim]

Something you don't seem to understand then so i'll spell it out for you, if theres at least 3 other class's in the realm that would make a Better BG i guess the answer would be NO! So it is about which BG is Superior and which isn't.

Also a Ranger BG would be able to protect 1 Caster/healer, the other would be butchered since the ranger needs to keep still to use sureshot etc.

While the valewalker can nuke while running, and the warden can heal while running. I see. You obviously dont have a clue, so I wont bother trying to convince you that having a class with an uninterruptable long range interrupt, assist the assisttrain or do ~1k damage in 1 shot on a healing healer, if the timing is right can be good.

 

[Spetsnaz]

While the valewalker can nuke while running, and the warden can heal while running. I see. You obviously dont have a clue, so I wont bother trying to convince you that having a class with an uninterruptable long range interrupt, assist the assisttrain or do ~1k damage in 1 shot on a healing healer, if the timing is right can be good.

well warden can grapple MA ... or end drain them .. or use ml9 dex/quik debuff and than ml10 combo for buffsnear (both with small aoe but since assist train usually stacked works nicely) ... or throw weapon on casters/healers nearby while straifing

 

[Raven]

While the valewalker can nuke while running, and the warden can heal while running. I see. You obviously dont have a clue, so I wont bother trying to convince you that having a class with an uninterruptable long range interrupt, assist the assisttrain or do ~1k damage in 1 shot on a healing healer, if the timing is right can be good.

a VW also has near plate armour with self buffs, insta root to help the assist train, insta dot to interupt (on a timer ofc) moc/lifetap, decent positional styles, rear stun, ichor of the deep, bedazzling Aura and a usefull RR5 ability. like the ranger they could fit in a group, but a warden brings far more than both imo. and 1k damage? rarely these days

 

[Bubble]

While the valewalker can nuke while running, and the warden can heal while running. I see. You obviously dont have a clue, so I wont bother trying to convince you that having a class with an uninterruptable long range interrupt, assist the assisttrain or do ~1k damage in 1 shot on a healing healer, if the timing is right can be good.

Not my fault you don't understand the point of my post.

Btw do you play a Ranger/Scout/Hunter?

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

If the Archers would be so viable BG'ers people would group them.

Tried it once with a Scout, he got destroyed.

 

[Mastade]

It could work actually, with pd5 and slash resistant armor you are superior to a warden as bg'er. The problem would be with your role in a fg. The most important thing for a bger is to keep following the assist train and bg whatever they are going for, which leaves you with no time to do the funky interrupt with bow. Also, if you were to have a ranger as bg'er you would want a bard for the resists but that would be the cost of a damage dealers slot in the grp. So if you have 2 bards the interrupt should more or less be covered. Not saying that this couldn't work cuz it could, especially if the grp you run in just decided that u stick to bg one target so you can interrupt and deal some damage with bow.

 

[noaim]

a VW also has near plate armour with self buffs, insta root to help the assist train, insta dot to interupt (on a timer ofc) moc/lifetap, decent positional styles, rear stun, ichor of the deep, bedazzling Aura and a usefull RR5 ability. like the ranger they could fit in a group, but a warden brings far more than both imo. and 1k damage? rarely these days

Critshot with correct damagetype arrows should hit for around 1k? Long since I played an archer so maybe not, but when I did I critshotted clerics and druids for 900+ if I used thrust/slash, with an rr2 norse hunter.

And no, I dont play an archer, I play spiritmaster, and I wouldnt mind having an archer bg´ing me if he knows what he is doing.

 

[Bubble]

Critshot with correct damagetype arrows should hit for around 1k? Long since I played an archer so maybe not, but when I did I critshotted clerics and druids for 900+ if I used thrust/slash, with an rr2 norse hunter.

And no, I dont play an archer, I play spiritmaster, and I wouldnt mind having an archer bg´ing me if he knows what he is doing.

Well I play a scout with 65 Longbow using Fools Bow with 10% Damage and 420 dex, i don't normally hit for over 700 with a Crit shot on a Healer with Thrust Shark arrows.

I suppose they would make a fine BG for a SM, not like you need one with that pet of yours

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Or 3 Healers ^^.

 

[Mastade]

Or 3 Healers ^^.

Or 4 healers, shammie and 3 savages and we port back in time and call ourselves J4cK H3r3r

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Or 4 healers, shammie and 3 savages and we port back in time and call ourselves J4cK H3r3r

Hahahahaha... Quality .

 

[Phoebee-v-]

Well I play a scout with 65 Longbow using Fools Bow with 10% Damage and 420 dex, i don't normally hit for over 700 with a Crit shot on a Healer with Thrust Shark arrows.

I suppose they would make a fine BG for a SM, not like you need one with that pet of yours

why not use immolated or even baggarts. Fools bow is to fast to be a good critshot bow. My ranger does 1k+ with capped buffs and half toa template w/o problem and the alb bows are even slower.....

 

[Bubble]

I have a MP immolated bow just incase i wanna change, i always found fools to be a much better all round bow.

 

[Chronictank]

this is good stuff but....

Ranger can switch to sure shot RF if getting interupted, this has to be very effective in terms of interupt....

Ranger could be canny like at the start, you hit the mage with TS, then switch to crit... mage could find himself insta dead. or very low on hits... this could be a good thing not sure havent tested enough...

well I would have full melee spec, wont do as much damage but can deal good damage i think....

you cant take as much damage as a tank but the roll is different.... and you can take ok damage... I think the ranger would be enough of a pest to get targetted which is kind of what you want to achieve... dunno

thing is if you were at the end of a assist train you would most definitely not last longer than a true tank, you have malice etc etc but so do real tanks.
Friar is a bad example as they can build their AF to near enough Chain

As for using bow, if your bg'ing a caster you will more or less be geting interupted too. If your using RF your dmg is yet more reduced and if you "need" to interupt then someone else in your grp is not doing their job properly

In the dmg department you are doing alot less dmg than a caster, and a light tank will be out-dmging you in melee.

In a way a ranger/hunter are pretty much jack of all trades, and need very high rr to be semi-useful. But i'll change my vote from no to yes they are viable. But a group with a tank are still better

I think it could.

FC ran with an archer for a bit and it was nice, although this was before BG, so things may be different now.
People say "ohh a caster can do better damage" but this is effectivley a "caster"with BG and grapple.
I'd try it if I was on hib and running a gg

People say it because its true...
if you are competing for a casters spot, then you are doing less dmg therefore a worse choice
if you are competing for a tanks spot, then the tank can live longer than you regardless of your spec. The argument is you can spec PD5, at the same rr the tank will have other toys instead and still have that defence

 

[Dafft]

who was the rr11 ranger?? ozrique? I was always under the assumption that in OF he ran with FG's

 

[Castus]

You`ve years and RR worth of running in fgs anyway Censi so surely u know the answer?

 

[Crocky]

decent alb bow = 3 sec drawtime

= worthless dps class.