Politics Coronavirus

[Embattle]

Good read, sort of covers most of it - 'We had to go it alone': how the UK got ahead in the Covid vaccine race

 

[Moriath]

Blimey. Seems like overkill; two doses for 2.5 x the population. I assume because they were betting some would fail/be delayed.

Maybe I should get my Mum to register my NI number at her house

Exactly. No one knew which would be good or not. So we over ordered.

 

[Bodhi]

Blimey. Seems like overkill; two doses for 2.5 x the population. I assume because they were betting some would fail/be delayed.

Maybe I should get my Mum to register my NI number at her house

As I said yesterday I would be fully in support of sending doses Ireland's way once we've got some spare capacity if Brussels are still playing silly buggers. We share a border, and there are plenty of Irish living in mainland UK who'd like to go back to see their families (and vice versa obviously) so makes complete sense. Might help build a few bridges after a frosty few years as well.

The other country I'd put to the top of the queue is Sweden. Not just because @Yoni lives there, but what I though was particularly harsh about the whole EU / AZ thing is that AZ are a Swedish company with a UK head office, so they shouldn't really suffer for some petty grey person in Brussels decision.

Then I'd look at France, but then Macrons said it's a rubbish vaccine, so we should buy up some of the Chinese vaccine and send him that instead. Bell end. If Trump had made that over 60s comment the liberal world would have shat itself.

 

[Gwadien]

As I said yesterday I would be fully in support of sending doses Ireland's way once we've got some spare capacity if Brussels are still playing silly buggers. We share a border, and there are plenty of Irish living in mainland UK who'd like to go back to see their families (and vice versa obviously) so makes complete sense. Might help build a few bridges after a frosty few years as well.

The other country I'd put to the top of the queue is Sweden. Not just because @Yoni lives there, but what I though was particularly harsh about the whole EU / AZ thing is that AZ are a Swedish company with a UK head office, so they shouldn't really suffer for some petty grey person in Brussels decision.

Then I'd look at France, but then Macrons said it's a rubbish vaccine, so we should buy up some of the Chinese vaccine and send him that instead. Bell end. If Trump had made that over 60s comment the liberal world would have shat itself.

So you'd want the vaccines to go to countries who's political leaders you like/dislike rather than the need of the people?

 

[Moriath]

 

[Scouse]

No doubt @Scouse will come up with a scientific response

Can't be fucked m8. Didn't finish work until 1am

 

[Moriath]

Covid-19: Joelinton an idiot for sharing haircut photo, barber says

Newcastle United star Joelinton shared a picture of himself with barber Tom Baxter on Friday.

www.bbc.co.uk

see footballers are exempt or not. Lol. Think the barber dude is a dick really with his comments

 

[caLLous]

Then I'd look at France, but then Macrons said it's a rubbish vaccine, so we should buy up some of the Chinese vaccine and send him that instead. Bell end. If Trump had made that over 60s comment the liberal world would have shat itself.

When did he say "it's a rubbish vaccine"? Or could it be that he didn't and you just wanted to crowbar in yet another childish little comment?

Macron echoed the German health ministry and the EMA in saying that there wasn't enough data to judge the AZ vaccine's efficacy in that age group. If Trump (and why you're bringing him into this I have no idea) stood there and said the FDA had recommended the same I don't see how there could be an issue? They're not saying it's unsafe, just that they don't have enough data to say whether it's worth using that vaccine on that age group. The EMA have approved it for anyone over the age of 18 but also acknowledged the lack of data for over-65s.

At no point have any of them said "it's a rubbish vaccine".

 

[Embattle]

Actually you are both wrong ad far as I'm concerned, he technically said 'quasi-ineffective' which doesn't mean rubbish nor is it quite the same as saying there is a lack of data. As I said before what makes that even worse is there is a high level of scepticism in the French general population in vaccines.

 

[caLLous]

The original quote, from the source:

"The real problem on AstraZeneca is that it doesn’t work the way we were expecting it to," Macron told a group of reporters, including POLITICO, in Paris. "We’re waiting for the EMA [European Medicines Agency] results, but today everything points to thinking it is quasi-ineffective on people older than 65, some say those 60 years or older."

So he didn't just say it was "quasi-ineffective", he said it was quasi-ineffective for a specific age-group.

The EMA later approved it but noted that they weren't sure how effective it would be for the over 55s but that it was safe to administer.

As you say, not particularly constructive in light of public opinion on vaccines in France (which is improving) but he certainly isn't writing the vaccine off as @Bodhi hilariously implied.

 

[Embattle]

So he did say it then.

 

[caLLous]

Yes. He said it. He then said some other words which added context which you seem to be ignoring. He didn't say the vaccine is quasi-ineffective full stop, that's the distinction.

 

[Gwadien]

Yes. He said it. He then said some other words which added context which you seem to be ignoring. He didn't say the vaccine is quasi-ineffective full stop, that's the distinction.

Can't you just let us bash the EU and EU countries in peace. Jeez.

 

[Embattle]

Yes. He said it. He then said some other words which added context which you seem to be ignoring. He didn't say the vaccine is quasi-ineffective full stop, that's the distinction.

Even with the context he still said it and it doesn't change the words, but go on keep making excuses.

Least it'll help reduce demand.

 

[Raven]

Criticising a huge mistake, and continued mistakes over covid when it's the EU = bad
Criticising a huge mistake, and continued mistakes over covid when it's the UK = fine

lol

 

[Scouse]

So he did say it then.

Over the years you've used the words "love" "fucking" "children" and "I".

 

[caLLous]

Even with the context he still said it and it doesn't change the words, but go on keep making excuses.

Least it'll help reduce demand.

Keep making excuses for what? Do you know how context works? He didn't say the vaccine doesn't seem to be effective, he said the vaccine doesn't seem to be effective for people over a specific age. You've started reading a sentence and abruptly stopped because the second half doesn't suit your argument.

And if we're really going to push the boat out and include the words before quasi-ineffective as well, he said "but today everything points to thinking it is" - there's no conclusion there.

 

[Tay]

So as you know I read the news from UK sources, Swedsih sources and sometimes Dutch sources as well as the US.... What I am finding is, is that there is much more hysteria in the UK press about this topic than in the European press - @caLLous what was the reporting like on the NI topic in France yesterday... in DN.SE they highlight that the EU will not take action on the NI boarder and that Barnier is playing mediator.

What is more interesting is that there does seem to be a point of contention in the contracts...the lawyers "seem" to be disagreeing on the terms I think this is a little more convoluted then some of the UK press are making it..... I do not believe we have a legal expert in this group ... sure many of us read contracts (some of us in a foregin language) and sign off on lots of money every year - but I am sure that those of us who do that for the bigger contracts have them vetted by an expert also (I know I do)...

As I said way back yes the EU have fucked up (some of you I think just like to put this in every post at the moment... it is a little bit schadenfreude | skadeglädje - really not a good look on those of you who are revelling), however it is interesting that they did not go after Pfizer or Moderna (also as they are coming up short) in the same way. The fact that the EU is gunning for AZ this gives me the indication that there is much more to this that you or I are privvy to. According to the article in the Gard this will be handled in the Belgium courts so out of all of our hands.

Lawyers disagree over AstraZeneca's duty to supply vaccines to EU

Dispute continues over whether contract means Covid jabs produced in UK must be sent to EU

www.theguardian.com

With reference to contracts, I used to do them all the time, still had to run them past our lawyers for anything above £500,000, as our exposure could have been significantly higher than that if something went wrong, thats working in the systems integration sector. In my last company it was about managing our exposure to unforeseen costs, delays, shortages, deliverables etc. Almost all were simply supply of hardware/services over multi year periods leveraging volume discounts mostly. Biggest I ever signed for was £6mil and that needed lawyer and CEO sign off.

As for the reporting, I'm sure quite a lot of it is being blown out of proportion by the likes of the BBC and other media outlets, however, they uttered those words and have felt the wrath of the world saying, "Really, this is what you are suggesting?" What is does on a geo political front is simply solidify Britains position even more.

The EU kept trying to position themselves as the reliable, stable, thoughtful next door neighbour, that myth has been shattered and those words can never ben unheard. The EU took a rather sinister direction.

I guess one of the reasons they dont want to ostracise some of those other companies are the links they have or may have to US companies, New US president and all that.

The optics from the worlds POV look terrible, the EU were slow, they only just approved the vaccines use, they simply dont have a united front, German has seemingly been allowed to go off and negotiate on its own for additional vaccines. Its 'looks' like they are trying to take another countries vaccine (One with the worst death toll in the EU region) to compensate for their own ineptitude.

One of the reasons they are gunning for AZ is that it is a British company, whether this is a large or small part of the 'gunning for' I'm not sure we'll ever know. But if they are looking for the Brexit agreement to get torn up, this is a perfect start.

 

[Embattle]

Macron trying to ‘reduce demand’ by criticizing Oxford/AstraZeneca jab, says vaccine scientist

‘I’m not sure where he got that from,’ says John Bell after French president suggests vaccine appears ‘quasi-ineffective.’

www.politico.eu

 

[Tay]

Blimey. Seems like overkill; two doses for 2.5 x the population. I assume because they were betting some would fail/be delayed.

Maybe I should get my Mum to register my NI number at her house

They probably know that the vaccine efficacy will be pretty short lived, maybe 2-5 years if we are lucky, this is simply hedging bets if ever I saw it. Its the perfect product for big pharma.
The pfizer one has a pretty short shelf life so great for the short term but too many issues going forwards.

 

[Deebs]

They probably know that the vaccine efficacy will be pretty short lived, maybe 2-5 years if we are lucky, this is simply hedging bets if ever I saw it. Its the perfect product for big pharma.
The pfizer one has a pretty short shelf life so great for the short term but too many issues going forwards.

Good job the UK is fast tracking the building of a new facility that can create up to 140 million vaccines per year. UK Government funded as well.

 

[Tay]

Sorry Deebs the lawyers do not agree at all on the substance of the contract.... I have asked someone else living in Europe how the fiasco was displayed in their press... as I said in Sweden it did not make the front page.... Apparently the outcome is not known and as the litigation will be held in Belgium not the UK it will be interesting to follow...

If the lawyers agreed there wouldn't be a case would there. You could put a team of lawyers in a room that could argue over the shape of a banana.

Perhaps that fact it isnt being covered in much of the EU is as obvious as the reasons it is being pushed here. It was a monumental fuck up, here it was portrayed as a serious "WTF? moment" and a "Glad we're not in the EU anymore" Sad but true.
A sad indictment of the fractured relationship between Britain and the EU.

The fact BoJo is coming across as a moderate in this is as telling as it is amusing.

 

[Tay]

Good job the UK is fast tracking the building of a new facility that can create up to 140 million vaccines per year. UK Government funded as well.

Must admit, I saw that coming a mile away : )

 

[Deebs]

Must admit, I saw that coming a mile away : )

The reason I mentioned UK Government funded (£158 mill) is that it will be mostly state owned and not subject to company limitations. Also note the UK is helping the fight against COVID making the data freely available for the world:

How Britain has done so much sequencing of the coronavirus genome

An unusual sequence of events

www.economist.com

 

[Tay]

Macron trying to ‘reduce demand’ by criticizing Oxford/AstraZeneca jab, says vaccine scientist

‘I’m not sure where he got that from,’ says John Bell after French president suggests vaccine appears ‘quasi-ineffective.’

www.politico.eu

Yes. He said it. He then said some other words which added context which you seem to be ignoring. He didn't say the vaccine is quasi-ineffective full stop, that's the distinction.

In my mind, making inflammatory comments without having evidence in hand one way or the other makes him on par with BoJo which kinda sums up most politicians.

 

[Yoni]

With reference to contracts, I used to do them all the time, still had to run them past our lawyers for anything above £500,000, as our exposure could have been significantly higher than that if something went wrong, thats working in the systems integration sector. In my last company it was about managing our exposure to unforeseen costs, delays, shortages, deliverables etc. Almost all were simply supply of hardware/services over multi year periods leveraging volume discounts mostly. Biggest I ever signed for was £6mil and that needed lawyer and CEO sign off.

As for the reporting, I'm sure quite a lot of it is being blown out of proportion by the likes of the BBC and other media outlets, however, they uttered those words and have felt the wrath of the world saying, "Really, this is what you are suggesting?" What is does on a geo political front is simply solidify Britains position even more.

The EU kept trying to position themselves as the reliable, stable, thoughtful next door neighbour, that myth has been shattered and those words can never ben unheard. The EU took a rather sinister direction.

I guess one of the reasons they dont want to ostracise some of those other companies are the links they have or may have to US companies, New US president and all that.

The optics from the worlds POV look terrible, the EU were slow, they only just approved the vaccines use, they simply dont have a united front, German has seemingly been allowed to go off and negotiate on its own for additional vaccines. Its 'looks' like they are trying to take another countries vaccine (One with the worst death toll in the EU region) to compensate for their own ineptitude.

One of the reasons they are gunning for AZ is that it is a British company, whether this is a large or small part of the 'gunning for' I'm not sure we'll ever know. But if they are looking for the Brexit agreement to get torn up, this is a perfect start.

British Swedish company please......

 

[Raven]

EU, back in it's box

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-55869476

 

[Yoni]

Sorry but that reporting is a joke... it was reported in Swedish news at 0526 this morning that the issue with NI is resolved... nothing sensational except that ... The BBC have completely and utterly over reacted and as for Gove... I think it is funny that for some of you who absolute have stated you dispise him are lapping him up when the rhetoric suits you .. ffs guys ... for those of you who like to suck tory wang your comments are expected....

It is reported: The EU says it has not put in place a mechanism to control vaccine exports to Northern Ireland, following London's concerns about such action. .... no sensationalism there. What would be good is if the BBC got back to factual reporting ..... Boz and Ursula had a chat last night and it was decided then - do not know what Boz has given up on behalf of the UK citizens as nothing comes from free in this world but a diplomatic solution was found

 

[Yoni]

I will not be surprised if Bozza agreed to AZ going to EU to ensure the 2nd dosage of the Pf Vaccine... time will tell.

 

[MYstIC G]

Jebus, you lot really don't need @Job at all do you?

Did I miss a memo around "Free @Job by be like @Job" or something. Fuck the vaccine, some of you need to go back on your regular meds.