Politics Coronavirus

[Raven]

Brexit: EU introduces controls on vaccines to NI

Northern Ireland First Minister Arlene Foster describes the move as "an incredible act of hostility".

www.bbc.co.uk

Utterly disgusting behaviour from the EU. I think it's time to tell them to piss up a rope.

 

[Tay]

The other thing I really don't get is if the EMA comes out and advises the AZ vaccine only be used on under 65s then why are they rushing to get it, to the extent of possibly wanting doses from the UK sites which again might reduce the UK supply of vaccines which we do use on the most vulnerable.

Did the EMA say that? I thought it was Bild that reported the German health authority said that?, which is quite novel (excuse the intentional pun), when it negotiated its own Vaccine deal, not something the EU wanted founding states to do. I'm not sure the EU is getting stronger with this shit show.

 

[Tay]

Can the EU win a case against AstraZeneca? I'm not convinced

The contract between AstraZeneca and the EU has now been published. It confirms my view, expressed on Coffee House, that the EU does not – despite its claims – have any form of ‘strong case’ or way to jump a queue to speed up its vaccine rollout. Both contracts (the one, published previously...

www.spectator.co.uk

When you are in the middle of global pandemic thats killed millions I'm not sure its wise to piss off one of the big pharmas too much. UK will offer them good deals to move manufacturing and jobs to the UK if the EU are prepared to turn on companies at the drop of a hat.

Covid and its variants arnt going anywhere soon, until the entire world is vaccinated and proven effective against all the mutate strains that will inevitably occur between now and then Big Pharma is needed.

 

[Moriath]

Long reply, let me summarize

10 Print “EC fucked up”
20 Print “EC trying to shift blame”
30 Goto 10 (love my spectrum days)

FTFY

 

[Tay]

No, it's care homes and hospitals.

HTH.

I'm not sure I trust any stats these days.

Just found out today that my wifes work colleague that caught it did so from her husband not from the vaccination centre as she initially thought, her. husband that caught it, did so from his work, as more people have fallen ill. Only just found out that he was in ITU for over a week, mid 40's and no under lying health issues, luckily he is back home now but scary for them, no idea about longer terms issues right now.

Fecking glad my wife has been off for the last 1.5 weeks on holiday, she might have just missed the worst of it.

I had a test on Monday and no sign of it which is nice, and our area is looking a lot better but hospital here still rammed.

 

[Tay]

Um fun fact.

The contracts I uploaded here earlier contain the unredacted details in the bookmarks feature of pdf readers. They have taken down the originals and uploaded new versions.

haha I used to love it at work when people tried to send redacted docs out and you simply turned them off on your own editor and could see everything

I once got sent the buy and sell prices, clients and comments about them accidentally once.

Google docs and before that Star docs were not good at keeping secrets, especially in spreadsheets

 

[Tay]

I wonder how many countries death tolls would suddenly be more accurate (Higher) if vaccine deployments were based on need such as deaths per country.

 

[Gwadien]

Brexit: EU introduces controls on vaccines to NI

Northern Ireland First Minister Arlene Foster describes the move as "an incredible act of hostility".

www.bbc.co.uk

Utterly disgusting behaviour from the EU. I think it's time to tell them to piss up a rope.

Why though? NI was in the UK last time I checked which is no longer in the European Union?

This is what I don't understand about Brexit - all the 'benefits' we got from being in the European Union, did people expect the EU to continue to treat us like we're in the EU out of the goodness of their hearts or something?

I'm fairly sure if we remained in the EU and the EU blocked sending vaccines out to other non EU countries there wouldn't be all this upset.

 

[Tay]

Why though? NI was in the UK last time I checked which is no longer in the European Union?

This is what I don't understand about Brexit - all the 'benefits' we got from being in the European Union, did people expect the EU to continue to treat us like we're in the EU out of the goodness of their hearts or something?

I'm fairly sure if we remained in the EU and the EU blocked sending vaccines out to other non EU countries there wouldn't be all this upset.

The thing is its the only hard border between the UK and EU, they could force checks in Southern Ireland (EU) to prevent the import/export of said drugs to the EU without further checks.

 

[Gwadien]

The thing is its the only hard border between the UK and EU, they could force checks in Southern Ireland (EU) to prevent the import/export of said drugs to the EU without further checks.

Exactly why would the EU say no exporting vaccines (apart from through Ireland)?

 

[Embattle]

Why though? NI was in the UK last time I checked which is no longer in the European Union?

This is what I don't understand about Brexit - all the 'benefits' we got from being in the European Union, did people expect the EU to continue to treat us like we're in the EU out of the goodness of their hearts or something?

I'm fairly sure if we remained in the EU and the EU blocked sending vaccines out to other non EU countries there wouldn't be all this upset.

NI is essentially in the EU for goods so there would be no border between NI and RI and thus the border for some goods was moved into the Irish sea.

The thing is its the only hard border between the UK and EU, they could force checks in Southern Ireland (EU) to prevent the import/export of said drugs to the EU without further checks.

You mean land border and to me that is technically what they are doing, they've created a barrier between NI and Ireland by using a nuclear option on something that wasn't needed either way. Again it is something that the UK government would of taken an utter kicking over if they tried it on to stop and vaccines possibly going from NI to RI, again it is the double standards and the fact the EU didn't have the decency to even talk about it to the UK government.

 

[Raven]

Why though? NI was in the UK last time I checked which is no longer in the European Union?

This is what I don't understand about Brexit - all the 'benefits' we got from being in the European Union, did people expect the EU to continue to treat us like we're in the EU out of the goodness of their hearts or something?

I'm fairly sure if we remained in the EU and the EU blocked sending vaccines out to other non EU countries there wouldn't be all this upset.

Sorry, but that is just missing the point entirely.

 

[dysfunction]

Brexit: EU introduces controls on vaccines to NI

Northern Ireland First Minister Arlene Foster describes the move as "an incredible act of hostility".

www.bbc.co.uk

Utterly disgusting behaviour from the EU. I think it's time to tell them to piss up a rope.

Quitr agree. They have gone full "Trump" on this one.

 

[Embattle]

'Welcome news': relief as EU backtracks on NI Covid vaccine move

Irish foreign minister warns Northern Ireland protocol ‘not something to be tampered with lightly’

www.theguardian.com

 

[Embattle]

There are some rumours it is going to be withdrawn, quite a lot of complaints from all sides.

Who knew the EU could out Boris...well Boris.

 

[Bodhi]

Being reported as an oversight apparently.

The mind boggles. How much capital and goodwill have they burnt with these shenanigans?

 

[Tay]

You mean land border and to me that is technically what they are doing, they've created a barrier between NI and Ireland by using a nuclear option on something that wasn't needed either way. Again it is something that the UK government would of taken an utter kicking over if they tried it on to stop and vaccines possibly going from NI to RI, again it is the double standards and the fact the EU didn't have the decency to even talk about it to the UK government.

Yes, land border.

These things always show you who your friends are..I'm now seeing a different ugly side to the EU.

 

[Tay]

Being reported as an oversight apparently.

The mind boggles. How much capital and goodwill have they burnt with these shenanigans?

I guess its the equivalent of a pork chop in a synagog !

 

[Moriath]

Being reported as an oversight apparently.

The mind boggles. How much capital and goodwill have they burnt with these shenanigans?

EU vaccine export row: Bloc backtracks on controls for NI

It follows anger over a decision to invoke an emergency provision in the Brexit deal in order to control vaccine exports.

www.bbc.co.uk

they bottled it. Btw is bloc a bad thing? Seems like we used to call the bad guys the eastern block. So might be the media playing bad guy labeling

 

[Yoni]

So as you know I read the news from UK sources, Swedsih sources and sometimes Dutch sources as well as the US.... What I am finding is, is that there is much more hysteria in the UK press about this topic than in the European press - @caLLous what was the reporting like on the NI topic in France yesterday... in DN.SE they highlight that the EU will not take action on the NI boarder and that Barnier is playing mediator.

What is more interesting is that there does seem to be a point of contention in the contracts...the lawyers "seem" to be disagreeing on the terms I think this is a little more convoluted then some of the UK press are making it..... I do not believe we have a legal expert in this group ... sure many of us read contracts (some of us in a foregin language) and sign off on lots of money every year - but I am sure that those of us who do that for the bigger contracts have them vetted by an expert also (I know I do)...

As I said way back yes the EU have fucked up (some of you I think just like to put this in every post at the moment... it is a little bit schadenfreude | skadeglädje - really not a good look on those of you who are revelling), however it is interesting that they did not go after Pfizer or Moderna (also as they are coming up short) in the same way. The fact that the EU is gunning for AZ this gives me the indication that there is much more to this that you or I are privvy to. According to the article in the Gard this will be handled in the Belgium courts so out of all of our hands.

Lawyers disagree over AstraZeneca's duty to supply vaccines to EU

Dispute continues over whether contract means Covid jabs produced in UK must be sent to EU

www.theguardian.com

 

[Deebs]

So as you know I read the news from UK sources, Swedsih sources and sometimes Dutch sources as well as the US.... What I am finding is, is that there is much more hysteria in the UK press about this topic than in the European press - @caLLous what was the reporting like on the NI topic in France yesterday... in DN.SE they highlight that the EU will not take action on the NI boarder and that Barnier is playing mediator.

What is more interesting is that there does seem to be a point of contention in the contracts...the lawyers "seem" to be disagreeing on the terms I think this is a little more convoluted then some of the UK press are making it..... I do not believe we have a legal expert in this group ... sure many of us read contracts (some of us in a foregin language) and sign off on lots of money every year - but I am sure that those of us who do that for the bigger contracts have them vetted by an expert also (I know I do)...

As I said way back yes the EU have fucked up (some of you I think just like to put this in every post at the moment... it is a little bit schadenfreude | skadeglädje - really not a good look on those of you who are revelling), however it is interesting that they did not go after Pfizer or Moderna (also as they are coming up short) in the same way. The fact that the EU is gunning for AZ this gives me the indication that there is much more to this that you or I are privvy to. According to the article in the Gard this will be handled in the Belgium courts so out of all of our hands.

Lawyers disagree over AstraZeneca's duty to supply vaccines to EU

Dispute continues over whether contract means Covid jabs produced in UK must be sent to EU

www.theguardian.com

The EU backtracked. Every single political party on the island of Ireland condemned them. They never consulted the RoI, NI or the UK Governments which they are meant to do as part of the treaty. Hence why the UK media are reporting heavily on this.

If the EU had a leg to stand on they would have gone straight to litigation instead of a public spat. They know the courts will throw their claims out. Clauses 5.1 and 5.4 of the agreement are clear. 5.1 says all initial doses must be made in the EU, 5.4 infers the UK but only within the 5.4 clause and is for the provisional additional doses.

No-one is reveling. This is about a political committee making a major fuckup at the expense of its citizens. Nothing more. We would still be having this discussion if we were a member.

 

[Aoami]

So as you know I read the news from UK sources, Swedsih sources and sometimes Dutch sources as well as the US.... What I am finding is, is that there is much more hysteria in the UK press about this topic than in the European press - @caLLous what was the reporting like on the NI topic in France yesterday... in DN.SE they highlight that the EU will not take action on the NI boarder and that Barnier is playing mediator.

Obviously there was going to more hysteria in the press about a potential hard border between the UK and Ireland. It would be weird if that wasn't the case.

Covid-19 vaccine chaos as EU is forced into U-turn after blocking supplies to the North

THE EU was forced into an embarrassing U-turn last night as it backtracked on a decision to block vaccines being transported into Northern Ireland.

m.independent.ie

Looks like the Irish weren't too pleased either. Do they have an agenda as well?

 

[Raven]

We were given the option to be part of this shambles and declined, much to the ridicule of some on here... The EU will have to answer to those that were also already getting things set up, and it is not going to be pretty. There is no revelling, it's an absolute tragedy that the EU should be managing, rather than going into damage limitation mode, now is the time to pour money into getting the supply chain fixed, sort out who fucked up later, pissing about making threats, blocking borders, furiously back peddling is not going to get the vaccine to those that need it.

This certainly won't be the last pandemic and I think the EU really need to think about cooperation rather than protectionism.

 

[Yoni]

The EU backtracked. Every single political party on the island of Ireland condemned them. They never consulted the RoI, NI or the UK Governments which they are meant to do as part of the treaty. Hence why the UK media are reporting heavily on this.

If the EU had a leg to stand on they would have gone straight to litigation instead of a public spat. They know the courts will throw their claims out. Clauses 5.1 and 5.4 of the agreement are clear. 5.1 says all initial doses must be made in the EU, 5.4 infers the UK but only within the 5.4 clause and is for the provisional additional doses.

No-one is reveling. This is about a political committee making a major fuckup at the expense of its citizens. Nothing more. We would still be having this discussion if we were a member.

Sorry Deebs the lawyers do not agree at all on the substance of the contract.... I have asked someone else living in Europe how the fiasco was displayed in their press... as I said in Sweden it did not make the front page.... Apparently the outcome is not known and as the litigation will be held in Belgium not the UK it will be interesting to follow...

 

[Deebs]

Sorry Deebs the lawyers do not agree at all on the substance of the contract.... I have asked someone else living in Europe how the fiasco was displayed in their press... as I said in Sweden it did not make the front page.... Apparently the outcome is not known and as the litigation will be held in Belgium not the UK it will be interesting to follow...

Like I said if the EU had a strong case it would already be in the Belgian courts and not in the public space.

 

[Yoni]

I do not think so at this time with all the information that I have read - litigation is very expensive and takes time maybe they thought some pressure would help.... they were wrong in this instance.

 

[Embattle]

So as you know I read the news from UK sources, Swedsih sources and sometimes Dutch sources as well as the US.... What I am finding is, is that there is much more hysteria in the UK press about this topic than in the European press - @caLLous what was the reporting like on the NI topic in France yesterday... in DN.SE they highlight that the EU will not take action on the NI boarder and that Barnier is playing mediator.

What is more interesting is that there does seem to be a point of contention in the contracts...the lawyers "seem" to be disagreeing on the terms I think this is a little more convoluted then some of the UK press are making it..... I do not believe we have a legal expert in this group ... sure many of us read contracts (some of us in a foregin language) and sign off on lots of money every year - but I am sure that those of us who do that for the bigger contracts have them vetted by an expert also (I know I do)...

As I said way back yes the EU have fucked up (some of you I think just like to put this in every post at the moment... it is a little bit schadenfreude | skadeglädje - really not a good look on those of you who are revelling), however it is interesting that they did not go after Pfizer or Moderna (also as they are coming up short) in the same way. The fact that the EU is gunning for AZ this gives me the indication that there is much more to this that you or I are privvy to. According to the article in the Gard this will be handled in the Belgium courts so out of all of our hands.

Lawyers disagree over AstraZeneca's duty to supply vaccines to EU

Dispute continues over whether contract means Covid jabs produced in UK must be sent to EU

www.theguardian.com

The noise in the UK is perfectly reasonable, our government seems to of finally done something almost world beating for once rather than the usual say it and completely miss the mark and then the EU through it's own issues on this subject have been playing a game of avoid the blame which while mainly pointed at AZ has also seen it creep towards the UK simple because the UK is protecting its contract.

I said initially on one of my previous posts it was probably about how you interpret the contract where the difference comes, but that point is moot because for a lot of people it still comes across as the EU trying to put its problem eggs in a 3rd countries basket.

The EU has recently been on a roll with things that if the UK had done would see them absolutely hammered, perhaps more so in the UK press than the EU press, but off the top of my head that includes Nord Stream 2, EU-China CAI, Vaccines and now even the idea of using Article 16 in the NIP. The EU can do these sort of things but I really wish people would stop giving the impression that its shit doesn't stink quite as often as they do.

A few possible different reasons for not going after Pfizer and Moderna probably relate to vaccine nationalism, different contracts, lower initial doses, lower reductions, etc.

 

[dysfunction]

Yes I agree Boris has actually finally done something right by buying the vaccines and getting them sent out as fast as possible.
The fact that we have given nearly 8m people the vaccine already is quite impressive. We are a long way behind Israel and UAE though.
Even an ASDA is giving vaccines to some people.

The number of vaccines UK purchased so far:

100m AZ
60m Valneva
60m Novovax
60m Glaxo
40m Pfizer
30m Janssen
17m Moderna

 

[DaGaffer]

Yes I agree Boris has actually finally done something right by buying the vaccines and getting them sent out as fast as possible.
The fact that we have given nearly 8m people the vaccine already is quite impressive. We are a long way behind Israel and UAE though.
Even an ASDA is giving vaccines to some people.

The number of vaccines UK purchased so far:

100m AZ
60m Valneva
60m Novovax
60m Glaxo
40m Pfizer
30m Janssen
17m Moderna

Blimey. Seems like overkill; two doses for 2.5 x the population. I assume because they were betting some would fail/be delayed.

Maybe I should get my Mum to register my NI number at her house

 

[Gwadien]

Blimey. Seems like overkill; two doses for 2.5 x the population. I assume because they were betting some would fail/be delayed.

Maybe I should get my Mum to register my NI number at her house

GET BACK IN THE SEA PADDY :O