Politics Coronavirus

[Gwadien]

???

There's also a twat on a mat.

 

[Scouse]

Christmas is going to set every country back a long long way and the fault lays with every single individual who decided that christmas was more important that the lives around them

Whilst I do have a lot of sympathy for this view - we also have leaders. And leaders set the tone, and people follow.

Our leaders have set the tone of "go see your family at xmas". So people are following.


Yes, personal responsibility absolutely exists - and the people who have been most responsible will have the best outcomes. I've just come off a call with a programme manager of mine who lost his granddad to a covid-induced stroke this morning. But to foist responsibility firmly on "the people" when "our leaders" are not setting the example for people to follow is a little oversimplifying IMO.

But yeah.

 

[Scouse]

There's also a twat on a mat.

I'm actually on my settee.

 

[Gwadien]

I'm actually on my settee.

No, that's the cuntaree on the settee.

 

[Yoni]

Seriously people have to stop blaming everyone else really doesn't work. I have watched nearly all the Corona briefings and it is very clear listening to the medical chaps that there should be caution surrounding Christmas.. if the general public prefer to take advise from Bozza over the countries medical experts then they deserve a Darwin award.... Even Tegnell in Sweden is urging caution and for everyone to try to keep in normal bubbles, not to mix if possible and if you need to (lonely elderly or mental health issue) then to keep away from everyone else during the time before hand... this is not fucking rocket science.

 

[Scouse]

Seriously people have to stop blaming everyone else really doesn't work. I have watched nearly all the Corona briefings and it is very clear listening to the medical chaps that there should be caution surrounding Christmas.. if the general public prefer to take advise from Bozza over the countries medical experts then they deserve a Darwin award.... Even Tegnell in Sweden is urging caution and for everyone to try to keep in normal bubbles, not to mix if possible and if you need to (lonely elderly or mental health issue) then to keep away from everyone else during the time before hand... this is not fucking rocket science.

I don't disagree with that in principle @Yoni.

But please bare in mind that 100 is the median IQ of the population - a difference of just 3 is quite noticeable.




If this doesn't factor into your thinking when you're discussing how populations act then you're missing a trick - which is why we order ourselves into heirarchical societies - because the "best" of us are (supposed) to lead - which is why there was such a hoo-ha about Cummings.

Example and leadership matters.

 

[Moriath]

I really do not understand why people can not put Christmas to one side for a year - I understand that everyone is tired of restrictions but even here where there has been no legal lockdown amongst those I talk to and with Christmas is going to be very very minimal but people are still going to see the elderly and not isolate before hand (goverment recommendations is that you should isolate for 10 days if you want to do this).

My husband and I have since the Summer been in our apartment it is one bedroomed with no garden but a balcony. I leave to go to the shops when it can not be delivered and to get fresh air and that is it. Normally we go for family christmas as my husbands uncle and we are exactly 8 which is within the recommendations of the Swedish government, however as we live in stockholm where naturally rates are higher we have decided not to go as there will be Stoffes grandparents there both of which are well into their 70s with some underlying health issues. On top of that I am still not able to see my mum on the Isle of man regardless at this time as i am not a resident there anymore nor was I born there but we are all now used to video calling and my mum has my brothers and youngers sister around her (Isle of Man one of the safest place near to the UK).

Christmas is going to set every country back a long long way and the fault lays with every single individual who decided that christmas was more important that the lives around them- yes I also understand that grandparents want to see their grandchildren - my mum wants to see hers however they do not all live on the isle of man so for this year it is tough shit they can wave at her on video. I know that governments are trying to find a happy medium to ensure that if those selfish people want to mix and risk their lives and the lives of others in a contained way which is why it is absolutely the responsibility of individuals to do the right fucking thing.... as for NYE..... you just know that humans are going to be retarded... \rant

but @Gwadien wants us to not be selfish and think of the poor people who cannot do without spreading the virus for 5 days just cause a kid was supposed to be born 2020 years ago.

 

[Raven]

???

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2RwvAHUAdc

 

[Gwadien]

but @Gwadien wants us to not be selfish and think of the poor people who cannot do without spreading the virus for 5 days just cause a kid was supposed to be born 2020 years ago.

Lots of people live for Christmas, the Government never would have cancelled Christmas because it would have been political suicide, that's how fickle the UK population is. Germany can afford to do it since Merkel is standing down and I'm sure she'll be happy to accept responsibility.

It would have been ignored anyway so there's little point trying to cancel it, what baffles me is the Government's response to it which is practically zero, having a lockdown and then stopping it just before Christmas makes no sense. Why didn't they help retailers move online and make things safer. Our Government seems to be unable to see past the week, there's so many things that were going to happen that they've obviously not really thought about; exams, schools opening, corruption, Christmas etc.

 

[Raven]

I really do not understand why people can not put Christmas to one side for a year - I understand that everyone is tired of restrictions but even here where there has been no legal lockdown amongst those I talk to and with Christmas is going to be very very minimal but people are still going to see the elderly and not isolate before hand (goverment recommendations is that you should isolate for 10 days if you want to do this).

My husband and I have since the Summer been in our apartment it is one bedroomed with no garden but a balcony. I leave to go to the shops when it can not be delivered and to get fresh air and that is it. Normally we go for family christmas as my husbands uncle and we are exactly 8 which is within the recommendations of the Swedish government, however as we live in stockholm where naturally rates are higher we have decided not to go as there will be Stoffes grandparents there both of which are well into their 70s with some underlying health issues. On top of that I am still not able to see my mum on the Isle of man regardless at this time as i am not a resident there anymore nor was I born there but we are all now used to video calling and my mum has my brothers and youngers sister around her (Isle of Man one of the safest place near to the UK).

Christmas is going to set every country back a long long way and the fault lays with every single individual who decided that christmas was more important that the lives around them- yes I also understand that grandparents want to see their grandchildren - my mum wants to see hers however they do not all live on the isle of man so for this year it is tough shit they can wave at her on video. I know that governments are trying to find a happy medium to ensure that if those selfish people want to mix and risk their lives and the lives of others in a contained way which is why it is absolutely the responsibility of individuals to do the right fucking thing.... as for NYE..... you just know that humans are going to be retarded... \rant

Because my wife has seen her mum and dad (who has a progressive, ultimately terminal illness) once since last Christmas, we "popped" down (100 miles each way) and sat in their back garden for a day in the summer. That is why we want to see them. It would have been fine but fuckwits don't appear to care any more and numbers and therefore risk are going up, so she probably wont see them again until next summer.

 

[Aoami]

I'll be having a fairly normal Christmas. Never see older relatives at Xmas anyway, and everyone meeting has had covid already, so don't see any particular risk.

 

[Yoni]

Because my wife has seen her mum and dad (who has a progressive, ultimately terminal illness) once since last Christmas, we "popped" down (100 miles each way) and sat in their back garden for a day in the summer. That is why we want to see them. It would have been fine but fuckwits don't appear to care any more and numbers and therefore risk are going up, so she probably wont see them again until next summer.

So why risk it now? My mum has progressive heart failure diagnosed in August there is nothing to be done - the IOM forbid me to visit at the moment as she is not in her death bed nor is she dead. I am now ok with that - it doesn’t mean I do not want to see her but it would be really irresponsible for me to do so even if I could - not just due to my mum but also all the people I come in contact with on my journey there and back.. My husband’s grandmother has serious liver disease and his grandfather is recently recovered from cancer - my husband is very close to them both but in no way will he visit them until he can do it safely.

 

[Raven]

Because it is Parkinsons and pretty degenerative. We aren't going to be risking it, we could have fairly comfortably if the numbers were lower, which they aren't because stupid people can't stop being stupid.

I don't much give a fuck what you think tbh, she is extremely close to her dad and it's tearing her apart not being able to see him.

 

[JBP|]

We had a visit from the covid mafia this week checking up on our measures at work,
It seems as long as you can keep people 2 metres away and have some sanitiser handy everything is fine and dandy.
Therefore I propose that if you do/can visit people over the relaxed period take sanitiser with you and keep your distance at 2 metres minimum. Job done .

 

[Yoni]

I do not think that is very scientific @JBP| ...

 

[JBP|]

Maybe not, but it's worked well for us so far and the covid mafia seemed to find it more than acceptable.

 

[Yoni]

Good that it has worked out

 

[Moriath]

Lots of people live for Christmas, the Government never would have cancelled Christmas because it would have been political suicide, that's how fickle the UK population is. Germany can afford to do it since Merkel is standing down and I'm sure she'll be happy to accept responsibility.

It would have been ignored anyway so there's little point trying to cancel it, what baffles me is the Government's response to it which is practically zero, having a lockdown and then stopping it just before Christmas makes no sense. Why didn't they help retailers move online and make things safer. Our Government seems to be unable to see past the week, there's so many things that were going to happen that they've obviously not really thought about; exams, schools opening, corruption, Christmas etc.

Lots of people wanted to get together for Eid and Hanukkah. But it was deemed to risky and no exception was granted.

 

[Aoami]

Lots of people wanted to get together for Eid and Hanukkah. But it was deemed to risky and no exception was granted.

Because they're not a holiday that 90+% (estimate, obviously) of the country celebrate?

 

[Moriath]

Because they're not a holiday that 90+% (estimate, obviously) of the country celebrate?

No one is stopping the holiday. Just the movement of people. Find a different way to celebrate together apart. Just like they had to for the above.

 

[Bodhi]

Lots of people wanted to get together for Eid and Hanukkah. But it was deemed to risky and no exception was granted.

So they got together any way.

From the very few devout Christians I know, they tend to make more of a thing of Easter than Christmas - and we were shut down then as well.

As far as the Christmas break goes, for me it's quite simple - if you don't feel comfortable visiting people, don't do it, stay at home. But don't fuck Christmas up for those who want to see families - potentially for the first time this year.

 

[Aoami]

No one is stopping the holiday. Just the movement of people. Find a different way to celebrate together apart. Just like they had to for the above.

I'm all for shielding the vulnerable, but still not sure why healthy people should be subject to not meeting up etc.

 

[Gwadien]

Lots of people wanted to get together for Eid and Hanukkah. But it was deemed to risky and no exception was granted.

Yeah they're pretty poor examples, as someone from Leicester I can tell you over Eid and Diwali the rules were somewhat ignored.

 

[Job]

Im not visiting any relatives, hired a pod in Grassington with the missus.

My dad in Devon is staying in, I'll see him after his vaccine kicks in, its freakin idiotic to start a third wave with the vaccine starting to take effect within weeks, also I mostly hate painful forced family meets.

 

[Moriath]

I'm all for shielding the vulnerable, but still not sure why healthy people should be subject to not meeting up etc.

Cause those who you meet with could spread to you or visa versa and eventual,y end up with transmission to someone with medical problems or older and more vulnerable. What you are describing is people who consider themselves healthy spreading the disease further and making it harder for those who are susceptible to avoid it.

so the ultimate in selfish behaviour.

 

[Moriath]

Yeah they're pretty poor examples, as someone from Leicester I can tell you over Eid and Diwali the rules were somewhat ignored.

Some what ignored is better than everyone given carte blanche to spread and have fun.

 

[Aoami]

Cause those who you meet with could spread to you or visa versa and eventual,y end up with transmission to someone with medical problems or older and more vulnerable. What you are describing is people who consider themselves healthy spreading the disease further and making it harder for those who are susceptible to avoid it.

so the ultimate in selfish behaviour.

Why is it selfish? If people mix with vulnerable people, that is selfish. But also, as Raven has said, some of those vulnerable people are probably so desperate to see family that they are willing to take the risk. Why should the 85% of the country who aren't vulnerable not be able to see each for a couple of days at Christmas?

 

[Bodhi]

Cause those who you meet with could spread to you or visa versa and eventual,y end up with transmission to someone with medical problems or older and more vulnerable. What you are describing is people who consider themselves healthy spreading the disease further and making it harder for those who are susceptible to avoid it.

so the ultimate in selfish behaviour.

Don't see your family then. However mine have decided that any minimal risk is worth the opportunity to get together and have a curry, as none of us are vulnerable, and none of us can see the only vulnerable family member we have.

 

[Moriath]

If the UK's Christmas plans are not changed, BMJ editor in chief Fiona Godlee said "we will have people sitting in ambulances, we will have people in corridors" as hospitals become overwhelmed with a surge in Covid patients.
Speaking to BBC News, she said: "On the current trend, if nothing is done, by New Year's Day there will be as many people in hospital with Covid-19 as there were at the peak of the first phase in April.

thats if nothing is done and without the christmas relaxation. I am confused why everyone is so happy to create such a bigger pressure and problem for the NHS. They were all heroes in april and may. Now its we dont care what you guys have to cope with as long as we can meet at christmas.

@Bodhi i wont be going anywhere. Just me and the mrs. Its the wider impact of the relaxation of rules will have on the nhs which will affect everyone. Even if you dont get covid. If you have an accident or a medical emergency you will be affected.

so christmas socialising is selfish. And will put strain on resources that everyone needs. Then there will be complaints about another lockdown inJanuary.

Covid: 'Rash' Christmas rules 'will cost many lives'

Officials from the four UK nations discuss the plans, as top medical journals call them a "blunder".

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Moriath]

Merkle isnt running Netherlands which will also be locked down at xmas.

and italy has the highest deaths now.

Coronavirus: European nations tighten restrictions ahead of Christmas

The Netherlands and Germany will be in lockdown over the festive period after Covid-19 cases spike.

www.bbc.co.uk