Politics Coronavirus

Scouse

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Don't disagree, just struggling to see any other options out there tbh.
When things are this bad you just roll the dice. ANY port in a storm.

Maybe they won't be world-beating - but they literally can't do any worse, and they argue (correctly) that they need to be judged in the job.

Boris has been judged in the job. He's a fucking shitshow.
 

Aoami

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It's so hard to not be apathetic. Maybe this is what the Tories are aiming for.

The fact Sir Keir has not buried Johnson yet is laughable.
 

Bodhi

Once agreed with Scouse and a LibDem at same time
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When things are this bad you just roll the dice. ANY port in a storm.

Maybe they won't be world-beating - but they literally can't do any worse, and they argue (correctly) that they need to be judged in the job.

Boris has been judged in the job. He's a fucking shitshow.
Wouldn't go as far as a shitshow, as we have got a lot right over the last 18 months - Vaccine Rollout, Freedom Day, resisting more restrictions this Christmas, increasing testing capacity amongst others. There's been plenty of bad as well - abandoning the original pandemic plan and going for lockdown instead, all the parties and confusing messaging, so once we're fully out the other side I'd say he should stand down and let someone else handle the incoming cost of living crisis.
 

Gwadien

Uneducated Northern Cretin
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It's so hard to not be apathetic. Maybe this is what the Tories are aiming for.
Absolutely.

I mean creating a department called 'levelling up' and then making Gove the bossman of it shows how much they're taking the piss out of all their gained voters.
 

Embattle

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Dabbling around the edges isn't going to be enough, you need to take a broom to this shit show.
 

Deebs

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No need for lateral or PCR tests.

I found this on the interwebs:

1641971082705.png
 

Scouse

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Mate of mine is a massive stoner. Daily use.

Was really really ill with covid. His O/H was dressed and had the car ready to take him to hospital, kids with her mum. He woke up, felt a little bit better so they hung fire. But it was touch and go.

I'd still get the booster.


Edit: And the abstract of the actual publication starts with the words " As a complement to vaccines ... "
 

Bodhi

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Mate of mine is a massive stoner. Daily use.

Was really really ill with covid. His O/H was dressed and had the car ready to take him to hospital, kids with her mum. He woke up, felt a little bit better so they hung fire. But it was touch and go.

I'd still get the booster.


Edit: And the abstract of the actual publication starts with the words " As a complement to vaccines ... "
Sorry to hear about your friend, however I'm not sure if you noticed that it was a joke?

Plus if you read the study itself the effective ingredient actually appears to be CBD rather than THC, which is in much lower amounts in most "weed" available over here, unless you get the "medicinal" strains particularly high in CBD. A daily bong may be hard to administrate and keep the country running, however another treatment based upon CBD, properly administered by health care professionals? Now that definitely has potential, considering the vaccines aren't helping keep everyone out of hospital, even with the boosters at this stage.

There's also the fact that boosting everything that moves every 3 months may not be a particularly sensible idea - even putting aside the cost and vaccine equity issues it would raise:

 

Scouse

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considering the vaccines aren't helping keep everyone out of hospital, even with the boosters at this stage.
I'd like to see the evidence of that. The vast majority of people in hospital are the unvaccinated. Has been very clear and stable for a long time on that (and I've provided the evidence to prove it previously. If it's changed, I'd very much like to see the new evidence).

For deaths? Other than elderly with severe co-morbidities, practically zero vaccinated people.

Edit:

There's been an update to the evidence I provided earlier - they now have the data to 31st October:
ONS said:
Over the whole period (1 January to 31 October 2021), the age-adjusted risk of deaths involving COVID-19 was 96% lower in people who had received a second dose at least 21 days ago compared with unvaccinated people
Of course, you could do what you did last time, and say "what about today/December"? But A) you have no evidence for today so I'd be interested how you get to your very controversial assertion above, and B) you used that argument last time - so I've blown your old argument out of the water as I've provided the additional...
 
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Bodhi

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I'd like to see the evidence of that. The vast majority of people in hospital are the unvaccinated. Has been very clear and stable for a long time on that (and I've provided the evidence to prove it previously. If it's changed, I'd very much like to see the new evidence).

For deaths? Other than elderly with severe co-morbidities, practically zero vaccinated people.
Latest numbers from the UKHSA, courtesy of the former head of Health Stats for the ONS:


View: https://twitter.com/statsjamie/status/1481268760187219970?s=20
 

Scouse

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You said the vaccines aren't helping keep people out of hospital - if it's 41% unvaccinated admittance then it shows that you're VASTLY more likely to be admitted in your unvaccinated (because of relative numbers). So your own facts contravene your own argument.

And as far as deaths go - which is the important thing - see the ONS above.
 

Bodhi

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You said the vaccines aren't helping keep people out of hospital - if it's 41% unvaccinated admittance then it shows that you're VASTLY more likely to be admitted in your unvaccinated (because of relative numbers). So your own facts contravene your own argument.

And as far as deaths go - which is the important thing - see the ONS above.
Probably worth reading my post properly before you start furiously frothing and typing a reply - I said they weren't keeping everyone out of hospital, so more treatment options for those they didn't help sounds like a good thing - no?
 

Scouse

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Not frothing at all. Gently pushing back at your general "boosters/vaccines aren't worth it" crap - which has been wrong since day 1.

Death is the important stat. The vast majority of people dying are unvaccinated. If you're bothered about "everyone" being kept out of hospital then you're a fantastist - but what is clear that, once again, the best way to keep people out of hospitals is getting the vaccine. By far.

The impact of the unvaccinated on continued lockdowns and NHS strain is leading some countries to charge extra tax for their idiocy. Now I don't agree with that at all - but they are idiots who are having an undue burden on the rest of society.

If the unvaccinated had all had their vaccines the NHS would be fine, and we wouldn't really be talking about Covid any more. Now it's literally ALL THEIR FAULT.

No frothing. Dispassionate assessment of the data shows that to be the case. If the unvaccinated were vaccinated then the NHS would be fine, we'd have zero restrictions and all the suffering businesses would be on BAU.
 

Raven

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That stat is incredibly misleading, if you know anything about simple mathematics.

It basically means, get the jab you fucking mongos
 

Bodhi

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Not frothing at all. Gently pushing back at your general "boosters/vaccines aren't worth it" crap - which has been wrong since day 1.

Death is the important stat. The vast majority of people dying are unvaccinated. If you're bothered about "everyone" being kept out of hospital then you're a fantastist - but what is clear that, once again, the best way to keep people out of hospitals is getting the vaccine. By far.

The impact of the unvaccinated on continued lockdowns and NHS strain is leading some countries to charge extra tax for their idiocy. Now I don't agree with that at all - but they are idiots who are having an undue burden on the rest of society.

If the unvaccinated had all had their vaccines the NHS would be fine, and we wouldn't really be talking about Covid any more. Now it's literally ALL THEIR FAULT.

No frothing. Dispassionate assessment of the data shows that to be the case. If the unvaccinated were vaccinated then the NHS would be fine, we'd have zero restrictions and all the suffering businesses would be on BAU.
Bit of a difference between suggesting they aren't worth it, and pointing out they aren't quite perfect, so having some more treatment options isn't a bad thing.

But then, if you can't have a debate without misrepresenting the other person's position, there probably isn't too much point, so I'll just say

OK dude.
 

Gwadien

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Bit of a difference between suggesting they aren't worth it, and pointing out they aren't quite perfect, so having some more treatment options isn't a bad thing.

But then, if you can't have a debate without misrepresenting the other person's position, there probably isn't too much point, so I'll just say

OK dude.
I don't understand the resistance to have one form of medical intervention but willingness to explore other avenues of medical intervention?
 

Scouse

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But then, if you can't have a debate without misrepresenting the other person's position, there probably isn't too much point, so I'll just say
I'm not really misrepresenting your position though am I? Over the past two years you've been down on lockdowns, dismissive of the benefits of vaccines, dismissive of their efficacy, you've overstated the mental health effects on suicide rates, you've been against pragmatic mask wearing, you've taken every opportunity to post something that may be like the above - a poor choice of language that can be picked at but in general the gist is correct (if you're unvaccinated you're the vast majority of the problem).

Your position has been consistent for the past two years.

Where we've aligned I've been completely happy to agree with you (more treatment options? great - but, critically, as an adjunct to full vaccination. No justification for coercion? Body autonomy? Yep, with you there).

But your form is anti-vax and your topics and arguments generally land in their favour and have done for two years. I invite anyone else on the forum to correct me.

I'll re-state: The un-vaccinated are the problem. They're they outside pressure on the NHS. They're the ones dying. They're the reason that restrictions remain in place. If they were vaccinated then the reasons for restrictions would go away - the NHS would be able to deal with it, the spread would be slower, less people would die, businesses would be open and running fine.

It's now, 100%, their fault.
 

DaGaffer

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I don't understand the resistance to have one form of medical intervention but willingness to explore other avenues of medical intervention?
Doesn't want communist 5G nanobot tracking innit?
 

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