Compulsory Prayer

[Louster]

If you want to go down that route, i'll throw in a random argument such as this:

Maybe they became wealthy because they used their brains, so maybe they're better inclined to make a choice on which policies are best!

It's more likely that, having come from better-off families (and to be honest, by "well off" I kinda meant "not poor" rather than "rich"), they'll have been given more opportunities and would have a harder time fucking up. Brains and ability does not equal financial success by any means, and to argue THAT would be pretty crazy.

And Trem, so much for "cba". Do you want me to respond in glorious bold and make oh-so-hurtful comments about your (non-existent) arguments, also?

 

[Earl]

It does mean financial success somewhere down the line in the family, unless it's something like a lottery win which is kinda rare

 

[nath]

I've noticed that almost everyone here is arguing a different point - I don't think anyone is suggesting banning prayer in school, just stopping it from being compulsory. I've not seen any arguements that say why schools shouldn't be able to decide against it, just why it shouldn't be banned completely.

 

[Trem]

And Trem, so much for "cba". Do you want me to respond in glorious bold and make oh-so-hurtful comments about your (non-existent) arguments, also?

Heh. Oh I'm sorry, didn't realise I wasn't allowed to comment. Jesus you are acting like a Nazi.

You are SO racist against some forum members its untrue, oh wait, sorry, I meant right wing.

I take it you are saying you had a non-existent argument by your comment?

I cba to fall out with people on here, including you, and I didn't think I was. The cba comment was aimed at that and not you. But hey ho, whatever. Lets fall out.

 

[Trem]

Tried to edit to say -

Have I got the wrong end of the stick with what you said Louster? If so then say and I will apologise.

Anyway Girls ALoud are in concert now so I am going to watch that.

mmmmmm

 

[old.user4556]

 

[Louster]

I'm not totally sure. I wasn't using "right wing" as an insult, it's just a way of expressing general ideology, and I didn't think that needed clarifying or whatever. And I don't think it's a coincidence that people with right-wing views tend to come from well off families - right-wing policy tends to protect the interests of the better off, hence Big G's earlier comment about taxes.

 

[Yoni]

I think my point is that I went to a catholic school... boarding school which took in day pupils and boarders from all denominations.. because their parents chose to send them to a catholic school they all had to go to a catholic church twice a week and say catholic prayers every day..It was and still is complusory (afaik). I keep in touch with my year and some of the years surround it and I know not of one person who would have changed a thing even though praying may not float their boat either then or now.

Most of us grew up to question the indoctrination and guilt but not the values associated with it.... values of kindness, compassion etc etc etc

 

[leggy]

Well my girlfriend's family are probably classed as middle class. They all attended church at some point in there lives (still do) and definitely attended assembly/prayer at school. They all went on to persecute the nearby jewish community and secretly experimented on them with toxic gasses.

Just goes to show:

Louster is right.

Compulsory prayor won't stop you from killing jewish people.

 

[Mey]

/read most of this thread and is now bored...

So all you non-believers God doesn't exist? 100% Fact? Right?

So answer this where do we go when we die?

What nowhere, we just die and end?

You sure? Ye? Ok then...

Tell me this, if I am right and your wrong, and God does exist, I know where I am going, but where are you?

There is nothing wrong with prayers in school, if children aren’t shown religion how are they going to “learn” about it?


- And don’t say R.E because most schools teach about eastern religions nowadays’ because its Political correct.. (that is highschools)

 

[Earl]

/read most of this thread and is now bored...

So all you non-believers God doesn't exist? 100% Fact? Right?

So answer this where do we go when we die?

Most of us go in the ground..

 

[leggy]

/read most of this thread and is now bored...

So all you non-believers God doesn't exist? 100% Fact? Right?

So answer this where do we go when we die?

What nowhere, we just die and end?

You sure? Ye? Ok then...

Tell me this, if I am right and your wrong, and God does exist, I know where I am going, but where are you?

There is nothing wrong with prayers in school, if children aren’t shown religion how are they going to “learn” about it?


- And don’t say R.E because most schools teach about eastern religions nowadays’ because its Political correct.. (that is highschools)

Well that is almost the most pathetic excuse for an argument I have ever witnessed.

What religion gives the believer over the athiest is this: "Piece of Mind"

You think you know where you are going. End of. Faith is all about belief without proof. Those of us that can willingly accept this will always be more accepting of death. In my opinion.

Me, I am in the non-believer category but see no real harm in prayer at school. I do however strongly believe in choice (at a certain age). If I choose not to pray then that should be the end of it. Like I choose not to vote. You are entiled to your opinion on this but not entitled to tell accuse me of being wrong.

It's obviously slightly more ambiguous where children are concerned. I don't believe most of them can make informed life decisions. Therefor it is sometimes better to guide them. And maybe that guidance is in the form of compulsary teachings.

The funny thing about all this is, that recently (in the states), a judge banned the teaching of intelligent design over evolution. Yet, it is still acceptable to force religious teachings. Isn't this just another form of intelligent design?

 

[ECA]

So a loving, forgiving god, is going to condemn us to an eternity in hell for not believing in him? our creator? why would you require your creations to believe in you or you torture them for eternity. eh? seems a bit silly to me.

Oh wait, thats because it is.

 

[leggy]

So a loving, forgiving god, is going to condemn us to an eternity in hell for not believing in him? our creator? why would you require your creations to believe in you or you torture them for eternity. eh? seems a bit silly to me.

Oh wait, thats because it is.

Who are you aiming that comment at?

 

[ECA]

Mey.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Me, I am in the non-believer category but see no real harm in prayer at school. I do however strongly believe in choice (at a certain age). If I choose not to pray then that should be the end of it. Like I choose not to vote.

Exactly! Part of the problem in primary schools is that children are PUNISHED if they do not join in the prayer. In my school, I was repeatedly held back and given severe bollockings because I would not join in in reading the prayers aloud. I would sit quietly and respectfully through them, but was deemed a problem child because I wouldn't speak the prayer out loud.

Whilst prayer is still compulsory in schools children will forever be punished for having their own views, regardless of how they carry them out. IMO a respectful child who stays quiet during prayer should be regarded as one that took part in the prayer (from an educational perspective) and those that deliberately disrupt should be punished.

 

[ZiggY]

religion to many people kill in the name of it its an old out dated look on life.

 

[Chilly]

Well that is almost the most pathetic excuse for an argument I have ever witnessed.

What religion gives the believer over the athiest is this: "Piece of Mind"

You think you know where you are going. End of. Faith is all about belief without proof. Those of us that can willingly accept this will always be more accepting of death. In my opinion.

Me, I am in the non-believer category but see no real harm in prayer at school. I do however strongly believe in choice (at a certain age). If I choose not to pray then that should be the end of it. Like I choose not to vote. You are entiled to your opinion on this but not entitled to tell accuse me of being wrong.

It's obviously slightly more ambiguous where children are concerned. I don't believe most of them can make informed life decisions. Therefor it is sometimes better to guide them. And maybe that guidance is in the form of compulsary teachings.

The funny thing about all this is, that recently (in the states), a judge banned the teaching of intelligent design over evolution. Yet, it is still acceptable to force religious teachings. Isn't this just another form of intelligent design?

I agree about the choice part - but be honest with yourself here. Before you were 16-18-20 or so you made stupid decisions. You bullied the girl you fancied, you called the fat kid a fatty fat fat or whatever (these may not specifically be true, but in some way you will have made a stupid decision and been a wanker). Kids cannot make sensible decisions, given the choice of attending pray at 10 I would have said "FUCK YOU GOD" and gone and done the other choice, given the choice now (for when I was 10) I'd definately do it, because while it may well be religious bullshit, it's not evil and teaches good values.

I am all for choice, but not until a person can actually make the choice sensibly. That age is varied between people obviously, some kids are immensly mature at 14 and I have friends who act worse than a 10 year old and they are all 19-22 or so. Choice is all very well, but some people are just plain stupid and cannot make sensible decisions.

 

[leggy]

I agree about the choice part - but be honest with yourself here. Before you were 16-18-20 or so you made stupid decisions. You bullied the girl you fancied, you called the fat kid a fatty fat fat or whatever (these may not specifically be true, but in some way you will have made a stupid decision and been a wanker). Kids cannot make sensible decisions, given the choice of attending pray at 10 I would have said "FUCK YOU GOD" and gone and done the other choice, given the choice now (for when I was 10) I'd definately do it, because while it may well be religious bullshit, it's not evil and teaches good values.

I am all for choice, but not until a person can actually make the choice sensibly. That age is varied between people obviously, some kids are immensly mature at 14 and I have friends who act worse than a 10 year old and they are all 19-22 or so. Choice is all very well, but some people are just plain stupid and cannot make sensible decisions.

Can you re-read my post please. I distinctly remember saying "most kids cannot make informed life decisions".

 

[Ch3tan]

Because I really cant be bothered to read through this, especially after seeing some random crap on the last page...

Which schools actually enforce compulsory prayer anymore? I remember at Primary school we had an old fashioned head teacher. Made everyone queue up in class order and take register outside everyday before going in (whatever the weather), made us do prayer in assembly (and preached to us) and made us sing hymns. Now this wasnt a Christian school, and the majority of pupils werent christian. However parents didnt complain, we didnt care. When the head retired he was replaced by a modern thinking teacher. The prayer, hyms and everything else went out the window. The school became a discipline nightmare.

Now I am not linking the prayer to the discipline, it was the style of head teacher that dragged the school downhill. So please dont think thats my point, even though it reads like that. I am just pointing out that schools dont in my experience force prayer on anyone.

 

[ECA]

Because I really cant be bothered to read through this, especially after seeing some random crap on the last page...

Which schools actually enforce compulsory prayer anymore? I remember at Primary school we had an old fashioned head teacher. Made everyone queue up in class order and take register outside everyday before going in (whatever the weather), made us do prayer in assembly (and preached to us) and made us sing hymns. Now this wasnt a Christian school, and the majority of pupils werent christian. However parents didnt complain, we didnt care. When the head retired he was replaced by a modern thinking teacher. The prayer, hyms and everything else went out the window. The school became a discipline nightmare.

Now I am not linking the prayer to the discipline, it was the style of head teacher that dragged the school downhill. So please dont think thats my point, even though it reads like that. I am just pointing out that schools dont in my experience force prayer on anyone.

Its a legal obligation, not a shool choice.

 

[Ch3tan]

My point being it does not seem to be enforced, so why worry about it.

 

[Chilly]

Can you re-read my post please. I distinctly remember saying "most kids cannot make informed life decisions".

oops!

 

[Turamber]

So a loving, forgiving god, is going to condemn us to an eternity in hell for not believing in him? our creator? why would you require your creations to believe in you or you torture them for eternity. eh? seems a bit silly to me.

Thats if you think hell is a place of torture, most scholars agree that the term is rather vague and can just mean 'the grave'. So God lets those that love him and follow him live again, but those that couldn't give a fig about him (past having a few days off and partying like mad to celebrate his son's "birthday") are left in the grave.

Bit off topic though.

 

[Turamber]

religion to many people kill in the name of it its an old out dated look on life.

People will always find reasons to hurt, maim and kill other human beings. Unless you are suggesting that all wars are fought by religious people? Them there atheists and agnostics all stay at home picking flowers and knitting jumpers eh? eh?

 

[nath]

Much though I dislike religion I have to agree. If we had none, we'd find other reasons to kill each other.