CNN Captures UFO footage.

[Scouse]

par·a·nor·mal
   [par-uh-nawr-muhl]
adjective
of or pertaining to the claimed occurrence of an event or perception without scientific explanation, as psychokinesis, extrasensory perception, or other purportedly supernatural phenomena

...

 

[opticle]

pur·port·ed (p

r-pôr

t

d, -p

r

-)adj. Assumed to be such

*shrug*

 

[Scouse]

The giant squid wasn't "assumed to be supernatural" - people just didn't believe it existed. That doesn't make it "paranormal".

Paranormal is a general term (coined ca. 1915–1920) that designates experiences that lie outside "the range of normal experience or scientific explanation" or that indicates phenomena understood to be outside of science's current ability to explain or measure. Paranormal phenomena are distinct from certain hypothetical entities, such as dark matter and dark energy, only insofar as paranormal phenomena are inconsistent with the world as already understood through empirical observation coupled with scientific methodology.

Thousands of stories relating to paranormal phenomena are found in popular culture, folklore, and the recollections of individual subjects. In contrast, the scientific community, as referenced in statements made by organizations such as the United States National Science Foundation, maintains that scientific evidence does not support a variety of beliefs that have been characterized as paranormal

The squid never existed outside the range of normal experience or scientific explanation.

a phenomenon cannot be confirmed as paranormal using the scientific method because, if it could be, it would no longer fit the definition

You guys need to brush up on your English.

Paranormal, like supernatural, means bunkum, hocus-pocus, idiotic idle twaddle - and is the realm of believers, fairy-worshippers and mystics.

 

[Raven]

Stop being pedantic. It covers a vast amount of things, up to and including sea monsters, yetis, spontaneous human combustion, things going bump in the night. I shouldn't have used a giant squid as an example, although that is probably where stories of Krakkens and whatnot come from.

To clarify, I mean paranormal investigations. Where by people rock up in their steam punk outfits looking for stuff that has not been identified by science meaning any genuine investigation gets tarred with loon brush.

Any of which can probably be explained by science.

 

[opticle]

Your first definition of paranormal said:

the claimed occurrence of an event or perception without scientific explanation

Then you said:

The giant squid wasn't "assumed to be supernatural" - people just didn't believe it existed.
You guys need to brush up on your English.

Clearly for people to claim it existed, some people must have believed it did. So right back at ya with the brushing up on English

 

[Scouse]

Your first definition of paranormal said

What did the quote you selectively quoted say, in bold?




And a claim for existence by some people does NOT make a thing paranormal or supernatural.

Me: POTATOES EXIST!
You: Prove it
Me: Damn, I've not got any on me.
You: POTATOES ARE PARANORMAL!

 

[Raven]

No but it all falls under the paranormal umbrella.

 

[Scouse]

No but it all falls under the paranormal umbrella.

No, it doesn't.

That's not pedantism - that's called being correct


Potatoes have never been, and never will be, in the realm of the paranormal. Or are you saying America was in the realm of the paranormal before it was discovered? Or gunpowder? Or gravity?

Please to be referring to my english quip earlier on

 

[Raven]

Well the Yeti is considered paranormal when it may exist and may well just be an undiscovered breed of ape or a particularly hairy naturist. A Kraken could be considered paranormal when it is just a giant squid or some other as yet unidentified animal...if it exists at all.

Anyway, my point was that all these fruitcakes claiming to be paranormal investigators just cause damage. If a serious team went searching for the Yeti they would probably just be labelled as nuts, simply because most people who do it are either crazy or are just con artists.

I am fairly open minded with things like the Yeti because there is so much we don't know about a lot of the world and are always discovering new species both on land and under the sea.

 

[Scouse]

Well the Yeti is considered paranormal when it may exist

*cough* same as nessie *cough*

 

[opticle]

Potatoes have never been, and never will be, in the realm of the paranormal. Or are you saying America was in the realm of the paranormal before it was discovered? Or gunpowder? Or gravity?

Because potatoes are normal and can be explained ?

By your definition who gets to decide when something is paranormal and when it isn't - or when something "just doesn't exist"?

Either way, meh

 

[Scouse]

By your definition

Not my definition. The definition. And I've posted the dictionary definition and a more detailed explanatory piece from Wiki.

Are you telling me you didn't read them?

 

[rynnor]

the paranormal umbrella.

I had one of those but no one else could see it, it couldn't be detected by any sort of scanner and it didn't keep the rain off.

 

[old.Tohtori]

It's real simple; paranormal could be explained by science, while supernatural breaks the rules of science.

 

[Scouse]

It's real simple; paranormal could be explained by science, while supernatural breaks the rules of science.

It's simple - that definition is incorrect.

 

[opticle]

Are you telling me you didn't read them?

You clearly haven't read mine either.

And I didn't selectively quote on purpose earlier, I quoted the bit that I felt undermined what you were saying. I don't know what the part in bold has to do with it at all. But lets just be argumentative and accuse people of being fact bending twatbags for the sake of it.

Your quote says paranormal things are "purportedly" (i.e. assumed to be) supernatural. That doesn't mean they definitely ARE supernatural. You say people simply didn't think the squid existed, therefore it wasn't paranormal - but if some people suggest it exists, then some people must have believed it existed - that belief wasn't explained by science at the time.

"Para" means "beside" - Beside normal - i.e. outside of what is accepted as "normal".

su·per·nat·u·ral/ˌso͞opərˈnaCH(ə)rəl/

Adjective:
(of a manifestation or event) Attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

I really don't understand what point you are trying to make, but I'm trying to. I'm not even sure what point I'm trying to make. If you're saying supernatural = paranormal then given the above definition of supernatural, at least in that dictionary YOU MAY WELL BE RIGHT

 

[rynnor]

You say people simply didn't think the squid existed, therefore it wasn't paranormal - but if some people suggest it exists, then some people must have believed it existed - that belief wasn't explained by science at the time.

Science couldnt explain a big squid? I think you are confusing the paranormal with cryptozoology. As we speak there are thousands of species 'unknown to science' - most are bugs in distant lands but no doubt some mammals etc. - none of these are paranormal though...

The Paranormal = Supernatural i.e. all nonsense that people believe thats patently against our understanding of the universe like magic, gods, demons and ghosts.

 

[Raven]

I didn't say it could not explain it, I said it had not been identified. Before it was "discovered" sightings were largely taken as rubbish. Sea monsters lol.

 

[opticle]

The Paranormal = Supernatural i.e. all nonsense that people believe thats patently against our understanding of the universe like magic, gods, demons and ghosts.

People used to think fire was magic, the earth the centre of the universe and schizophrenia possession by demons and satan. Scientific and medical explanations were all nonsense and patently against their understanding of the universe. Religion was science. They were paranormal at the time. Some people died for it.

Science couldnt explain a big squid? I think you are confusing the paranormal with cryptozoology. As we speak there are thousands of species 'unknown to science' - most are bugs in distant lands but no doubt some mammals etc. - none of these are paranormal though...

In the past, it was a myth and it was thought in the same domain as the Yeti and Nessie are now.

Now Science can recognise that there are likely thousands of species unknown to science - the boundaries of what is accepted as "normal" have changed. Perhaps the big squid isn't the best example, I'm just using one that came up earlier. See what Raven said ^.

Or are Yeti and Nessie not and never paranormal and just considered potential Cryptozoologees ? If so, fair play

 

[rynnor]

Or are Yeti and Nessie not and never paranormal and just considered potential Cryptozoologees ? If so, fair play

Yes - both are part of cryptozoology - like the east asian Pendek, the Mongolian Death Worm and the Giant South American Ground Sloth.

Nessie clearly doesnt exist but some of the others are still possible in remote corners of the world that are thinly populated by humans - even the big cat sightings in England are cryptozoological

 

[opticle]

Nessie clearly doesnt exist

How dare you question Nessie

 

[Shagrat]

Yes - both are part of cryptozoology - like the east asian Pendek, the Mongolian Death Worm and the Giant South American Ground Sloth.

Nessie clearly doesnt exist but some of the others are still possible in remote corners of the world that are thinly populated by humans - even the big cat sightings in England are cryptozoological

The Mongolian Death Worm!!! Now there's a beastie with a proper name.

 

[rynnor]

The Mongolian Death Worm!!! Now there's a beastie with a proper name.

Greatly feared by some tribes - nearly everyone who see's it dies goes the legend - there was an episode of 'Beastman' where he tracked down an old lady who said she saw it kill some domestic animals when she was a child - she described it as a large bright red segmented worm - very cool.

Edit - dug it out - http://natgeotv.com/uk/beast-man/galleries/death-worm#36840

 

[Scouse]

I selectively quote on purpose. I quoted the bit that I felt undermined you

See what taking bits of a sentence does Opti old bean?

that belief wasn't explained by science at the time

Which, if you'd read the article I posted, you'd understand DOESN'T mean that it's paranormal.

It's simply currently unexplained.

 

[Scouse]

People used to think fire was magic, the earth the centre of the universe and schizophrenia possession by demons and satan. Scientific and medical explanations were all nonsense and patently against their understanding of the universe. Religion was science. They were paranormal at the time.

No. They weren't.

They were simply unexplained. Unexplained does not equal paranormal.

 

[opticle]

See what taking bits of a sentence does Opti old bean?

Shush In my defence, that wasn't my intention. I figured it's dull to see an entire post re-quoted immediately below, so I quoted the bit I was referring to - I didn't think I'd altered the meaning of what you'd said at all. I'm sorry your exact bloody context is so damn important to you

 

[opticle]

No. They weren't.

They were simply unexplained. Unexplained does not equal paranormal.

They were explained ? The priests were very sure of that.

It all depends where the lines are drawn in the sand, surely. Not to mention we're getting pretty anal about the semantics of dictionary definitions right about now.

 

[Scouse]

They were explained ? The priests were very sure of that.

Priests, unfortunately, are not good arbiters of empirical truth.

"Semantics", my dear sir, is the study of meaning. If we're not interested in what we mean, why do we talk?

 

[opticle]

Priests, unfortunately, are not good arbiters of empirical truth.

"Semantics", my dear sir, is the study of meaning. If we're not interested in what we mean, why do we talk?

But for a time priests WERE the arbiters of empirical truth. Don't get me wrong, I agree with you on that point - but "normal" has changed a lot over the past millennia. It's never been an absolute. Therefore neither has paranormal. That's all I'm saying.

Of course we're interested in what we mean - but you can quite easily get bogged down in minutiae, which are debateable, get in the way of any meaningful discussion and aren't particularly interesting - depending on your perspective

Anyhoo, enough derailment from me.

 

[Scouse]

But for a time priests WERE the arbiters of empirical truth.

Priests have never been the arbiter of empirical truth.

They've been peddlers of superstition, half truths, supernatural mumbo-jumbo and paranormal phenomena - but never, ever, empricial truth.