Classes, a little help with perspective..

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Solid

Yes since I respecced to Slam my thane is more viable, or shall I say less gimped. A thane is a very very poor excuse of a warrior as he cant cast for shit. Thanes melee 90% of the time in RvR, thats not very hybrid imo, and its testament to our lame Stormcalling line. A warrior is better in groups than a thane with his huge hp, higher weapon/shield/parry spec, cheaper RA and more Dex.

I would go so far as to say Warriors are better than Thanes in RvR if you look at what they can get.

Actually, if it wasn't for the fact that Midgard had decent crowd control thanes would be good As it is they can't use their repeatable damage (Mjolnir) because they get yelled at for breaking mezz.

Thanes are hybrids - they don't do anything as well as anyone else, they don't fight as well as a warrior (for obvious reasons) but they get ranged things to make up for it - a thane is far more useful in a milegate standoff than a warrior, he's more useful in an up close melee fight than a runemaster.

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by old.Iunliten
Skald whine...

That was new

Ah well some skald said you only could kill casters and healers (or something)

Oh no you can't kill the other tanks. What? Speed and stealth means an ability to pick your fights.

If you see a caster. It has no chance to run away.

If you see a tank. It got no way to catch on its own (Champ debuffing your str to enc and adding snare on that would be the only very unlikely way)

And someone said if you took speed away from skalds you would get one of the most gimped classes in the realm.

What if you take away DD spells from mages, heals from healers or the high skillpoints of a rouge and defense from tanks.
If statements are not very valid!

But keep the skald whine coming, always enjoying some other whine the chateau-de-uber-assassin or we-are-useless-rouge

Keep the ill-informed random caster whine coming....
Skalds can't stealth.
A snared skald isn't going to get away from a champ with or without encumberence, unless he snares the champ back. Also a champ debuff in unlikely to encumber a skald as they have high strength (what with being a hybrid tank and all).
A caster might not be able to run, but they can still fight.
Take speed from skald and you have a thane without shield spec and no ae pretty much. That's gimped.
Not all rogues have high skill points, that's just assassins.

Before you say a class is uber, you should really learn what the hell they can and can't do.

 

[the_smurflord]

Originally posted by Fingoniel


Actually, if it wasn't for the fact that Midgard had decent crowd control thanes would be good As it is they can't use their repeatable damage (Mjolnir) because they get yelled at for breaking mezz.

Speaking as one who is often on the recieving end of a thane's casting, they may break mezz, but they also uncover a lot of stealthers.

 

[old.Iunliten]

Originally posted by Danyan

Keep the ill-informed random caster whine coming....
Skalds can't stealth.
A snared skald isn't going to get away from a champ with or without encumberence, unless he snares the champ back. Also a champ debuff in unlikely to encumber a skald as they have high strength (what with being a hybrid tank and all).
A caster might not be able to run, but they can still fight.
Take speed from skald and you have a thane without shield spec and no ae pretty much. That's gimped.
Not all rogues have high skill points, that's just assassins.

Before you say a class is uber, you should really learn what the hell they can and can't do.

Oh boy this is a big post and you have misunderstood me completly...

I never claimed skalds can stealth. I claimed stealth and speed gives you an ability to choose fight, a general statement.

Your "skalds can't run away against champions" are contradiction. Both snare, same speed and then you agree on my statement that champion can't debuff the skald to the level of encumberance... How come the skald won't get away then?

Now skalds have an advantage on casters, That you can't deny
he got lots of instas to interupt your casting and qc if he is skillfull, next. And speed 5 means he can quickly elimante your greatest assest, Range.

You totally misunderstood my statement! If you take away speed from a skald is like taking away the damage spells of a caster. A caster without damage spells are pretty gimped too. Or a healing class without ability to heal. Such if statements can't be used as argument such as: "OMG SKALDS SUCK IF YOU TAKE AWAY XXX and YYY I would be worse then ZZZ".

Rouges have high skill points, except the ministrel. 2.0, 2.2 and 2.5 is equal or more than the average.

What a class can do and can't do I can say pretty well.
204% speed, HP of hybrid, two insta cast DD at 20 seconds recharge timer, insta cast mezz at 30 second timer, insta snare at 30 seconds timer, damage table of rouge, can specc in axe/hammer/sword. They got a rest song which a few HP each cycle out of combat. Same damage add as wardens and paladins and is less than the runemasters but more then shamans.
No stealth abilitys. 1.5 specc points per lvl. Want me to continue the list?

Now Juciest part for last "Keep the ill-informed random caster whine coming...."
What the hell do you know? Iunzana is the char I am playing atm, I have/had past thidranki chars from all 3 realms.

Obviously you live under: "To think before you speak is to wipe your ass before you have shit"
Freely translated from swedish

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by old.Iunliten
Ah well some skald said you only could kill casters and healers (or something)

Oh no you can't kill the other tanks. What? Speed and stealth means an ability to pick your fights.

Looks a lot like you were saying skalds have stealth to me. If it wasn't about skalds why did you even mention it given your post is entirely about skalds? Also you mention other tanks... there's no stealthing tank so I have no idea where that statement comes from at all.

Originally posted by old.Iunliten
What a class can do and can't do I can say pretty well.
204% speed, HP of hybrid, two insta cast DD at 20 seconds recharge timer, insta cast mezz at 30 second timer, insta snare at 30 seconds timer, damage table of rouge, can specc in axe/hammer/sword. They got a rest song which a few HP each cycle out of combat. Same damage add as wardens and paladins and is less than the runemasters but more then shamans.
No stealth abilitys. 1.5 specc points per lvl. Want me to continue the list?
What the hell do you know? Iunzana is the char I am playing atm, I have/had past thidranki chars from all 3 realms

Listing a set of abilities does not mean you know what a class can actually do. A lot of thigs look good on paper, but in reality are useless or vice versa. Without experience of things in game you can't say what is good or not.
Thidranki is not like real RvR, comparisons from thid to RvR do not work. The levels of resists are different, people have less well tuned equipment, often less experience, there's less level variance and cruicially a lot less RAs. RAs make such a large different to the outcome of battles that you cannot judge anything at all from thid because they aren't there.

 

[SilverHood]

Thanes are hybrids - they don't do anything as well as anyone else, they don't fight as well as a warrior (for obvious reasons) but they get ranged things to make up for it a thane is far more useful in a milegate standoff than a warrior, he's more useful in an up close melee fight than a runemaster.

I have 48 in SC - this gives me the last bolt. Nice and all. Every 30 seconds. Call that making up for low hp and crap melee damage? Look at ALL other speclines.... if you spec ANY specline to 48 you get more bangs per buck, so to speak. I mean, 200-300 dmg on a lvl 50 using a lvl 48 DD? I've been hit harder by non smite clerics, harder by non level 50 casters, don't think I've ever seen anyoen hit for so little with a high lvl dd

People laugh at my mjolnir damage
Maybe 200 if the person has low resists
And i break mez on people that casters might be able to get, hence most good thanes don't use it unless they are very bored.
And we run out of power relatively quick, maybe 5 or 6 casts. Recon healers are gonna trust us with a mana regen? yeah right.

As it is, I have to stand on the wall during milegate campings, insta dd'ing or bolting every 20-30 secs

I cant take enough damage to be down front... i go down faster than a a sober Essex girl, and thats saying something.

Doing class comparisons by rps is utter bullshit - look at what a class should be, and compare it with what it is. There ya go - thats the first step to see how some classes are unbalanced. Thanes - poor tanks - poor caster every 30 secs
Hardly call that balanced

 

[Danya]

You get 200-300 on your dd? That's more than some casters can manage at 50 given the high resists.

 

[old.Iunliten]

Originally posted by Danyan

Looks a lot like you were saying skalds have stealth to me. If it wasn't about skalds why did you even mention it given your post is entirely about skalds? Also you mention other tanks... there's no stealthing tank so I have no idea where that statement comes from at all.


Listing a set of abilities does not mean you know what a class can actually do. A lot of thigs look good on paper, but in reality are useless or vice versa. Without experience of things in game you can't say what is good or not.
Thidranki is not like real RvR, comparisons from thid to RvR do not work. The levels of resists are different, people have less well tuned equipment, often less experience, there's less level variance and cruicially a lot less RAs. RAs make such a large different to the outcome of battles that you cannot judge anything at all from thid because they aren't there.

1 That section is about speed on skalds. I mentioned speed gives you the ability to pick fight, Skip that part about stealth if it confuses your head.

2I said past thidranki. After thidranki the "real guys" RvR.

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by old.Iunliten
1 That section is about speed on skalds. I mentioned speed gives you the ability to pick fight, Skip that part about stealth if it confuses your head.

2I said past thidranki. After thidranki the "real guys" RvR.

It would help if you worded your replies in a less ambiguous way. I can see what you mean about speed and stealth, but the way you worded makes it seem like you are saying skalds have both.
Likewise with the "past thidranki chars" I read that as "in the past, I had thidranki chars", not "I have chars that are past thidranki".

 

[liste]

Overall summary of the class balance situation: EVERYONE LIKES TO COMPLAIN THAT THEY ARE HARD DONE BY.

Nerf me! im rediculously overpowered!!


<beams>
im different! bless!

 

[Belomar]

Originally posted by old.chesnor
I would have though Mr.McThife should know better than to post pointless threads like this. Comparing classes with greater than and less than signs based upon who twats him in a 1 on 1 encounter and his clearly messed up view of RvR. Druids > Clerics > Healers MY ARSE!!!!!. I bow before your deep analytical mind Brannor....

Oooh, it's good that you come here and tell the rest of us how misled we are. Thanks. I mean, it's not as if this is a general discussion board where these things can be freely discussed, and this thread is after all not popular at all. Really.

 

[old.chesnor]

Originally posted by Belomar
Oooh, it's good that you come here and tell the rest of us how misled we are. Thanks. I mean, it's not as if this is a general discussion board where these things can be freely discussed, and this thread is after all not popular at all. Really.

Yeah the whine threads are the most popular on the VN boards as well....

 

[Wend]

Originally posted by old.Iunliten
And someone said if you took speed away from skalds you would get one of the most gimped classes in the realm.

You could also read that as saying, speed is the only thing Skalds have got going for them (which does sound a bit more reasonable).

I don't want to downplay the benefits of speed, but it would be nice to be more than a taxi.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by SilverHood


I have 48 in SC - this gives me the last bolt. Nice and all. Every 30 seconds. Call that making up for low hp and crap melee damage? Look at ALL other speclines.... if you spec ANY specline to 48 you get more bangs per buck, so to speak. I mean, 200-300 dmg on a lvl 50 using a lvl 48 DD? I've been hit harder by non smite clerics, harder by non level 50 casters, don't think I've ever seen anyoen hit for so little with a high lvl dd

Don't forget the str buff - how much does that add to your weaponskill? puts you above the other hybrid weaponskills...

oh and the various shouts you get... (which get upgraded soon, I never said tweaks would be amiss... heck make TL just a 3/4 second cast time spell, you can almost get the same damage with mjolnir, just this will stop the 'dont break mezz' yells from your groupmates )

After 1.53 I'd say thanes are almost there, if they get another line with the same damage as mjolnir that only hits one target they'd be really quite something

 

[SilverHood]

mjolnir is not worth the endurance use, either in solo or group combat, unless I'm fighting casters

thanes should havea choice - cast spells, or fight

atm, we don't

After 1.53 I'd say thanes are almost there, if they get another line with the same damage as mjolnir that only hits one target they'd be really quite something

Simply removing the timer on TL would do the job nicely