Clarifications

[Pin]

Originally posted by Carlos Bananos


Thank you for clarifying my point, by speccing slash, they would do more damage against midgard leather, if they want to beat SBs, they have to spec for it, like SZs spec for fighting assasins, like infils spec for dragonfang.

The way he is asking, he wants to have the best of all worlds, without spending any spec points

By speccing slash (unless buffed) they would inherently have a lower weaponskill than speccing thrust. This will do less damage and get more damage thrown back at you (reactionaries) than speccing to fight slash to fight against one particular armour type.

And the same comments apply for speccing either only to a low level.

Even if buffed, by speccing slash you will be hurt more by an enervating poison than you would be if you specced thrust.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Freppe^^
My advice to you skile is to roll an INFIL .

Please no!

It'll just give him a whole new set of whines to come here with.

 

[Carlos Bananos]

Originally posted by Pin


Please no!

It'll just give him a whole new set of whines to come here with.

then ignore his whines, and come back to Emain perhaps?

 

[Freppe^^]

Originally posted by Pin


Please no!

It'll just give him a whole new set of whines to come here with.

Im just sick of his scout whines, thats all. A infil maybe can cool him down for a month or 2 .

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Carlos Bananos



then ignore his whines, and come back to Emain perhaps?

But it's boosting my post count


(And I might come back fairly soon... My end-chant bot won't be able to play as much from next week )

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Freppe^^

Im just sick of his scout whines, thats all. A infil maybe can cool him down for a month or 2 .

Nah, we'll just get 6 solid months of him whining that he can't level it.

 

[Tranquil-]

Originally posted by Carlos Bananos


Thank you for clarifying my point, by speccing slash, they would do more damage against midgard leather, if they want to beat SBs, they have to spec for it, like SZs spec for fighting assasins, like infils spec for dragonfang.

The way he is asking, he wants to have the best of all worlds, without spending any spec points

Though with slash he would be worse off weaponskill wise, so he'll get completely evaded instead of perhaps get in a blow that atleast did damage

edit: Oops, noticed that Pin had answered too.

 

[Aussie-]

it must be cool to be a stealther nowadays

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Aussie-
it must be cool to be a stealther nowadays

I'm enjoying myself

 

[Tranquil-]

Originally posted by Pin
I agree that it is lower damage, but you arent substatially worse off when you consider that evade is capped etc.

Evade VII > Evade III

And as block is halved by DW, what good does that extra shield spec really do you?

Because you have more use of the shield in other situations than just against a SB. SB's isn't the only class you fight against. Atleast I don't.

Waiting for an evade takes time... All of which you can spend doing more damage as you are specced higher in melee. Wasting all that time and endurance standing there, spamming slam which misses is much worse than waiting for an evade.

You are correct that having the melee out all the time generates more damage(slightly, cause a medium spec isn't very much worse off considering damage than a high specced 1H melee.), but you won't kill him anyway considering same RR, RA's being up and full health either. Also slam has a MUCH higher utility value in more situations than DF has.

If they purge the stun, you will get no more oportunity to run with a slam stun over a dragonfang stun. I don't see how you come to this conclusion.

Because as you described, the scout was supposed to stand and melee instead of running behind him and get some distance and then shoot. The combat timer will interrupt infront, so archers run through the attackers and shoot them in the back. Also the time it takes to get some distance outweighs the time you'll save by shooting straight after you've slammed, interruptions also play a part here.

It does with autotrain - level up on melee.

Your template considered Longbow at 40. I've seen tests on vnboards that showed that the weaponskill(will be appr. at 1600 with buffs) at that base speclvl+items enters a zone where apparently evade's numerical 'weapon'skill centers around. The test showed that a weaponskill at the top end of 1600 and the beginning of 1700 had a dramatical decrease in evades compared to a bow weaponskill at 1600 and below. This was vs a buffed infiltrator iirc.

50 spec thrust will give you a MUCH better chance of outmeleeing an assassin than ~30 slash ever will. I'm not saying it's going to completely own them every time, but it's how I'd spec a Scout if I was masochistic enough to roll one.

But you will still never actually do it no matter how close you get. I don't want to spec just because I just might have some luck and outmelee him, IF I have purge up, he doesn't and he just happens to not get any styles in.

There's a 10 second combat timer on applying poison to a weapon, exactly the same as the restealth timer. In order to reapply poisons you need to grab weapons from your backpack, equip them, and then continue. Then you have to go through the hassle of applying poisons to all of those weapons again after your fights, which is far too tedious to actually do in practice.

I know there's a timer for reapplying poisons. If someone purges your poisons and suddenly regains the hundreds of HP and STR they had before the debuff hit, you do nothing? (This is at the end of a fight and you have no chance to get DF in because you are OOE and have no potions )

Anyway, to be able to throw in another weapon with poisons IS possible though, so you have the option.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Tranquil-

<snip because it would just be answered all the same as above>

I know there's a timer for reapplying poisons. If someone purges your poisons and suddenly regains the hundreds of HP and STR they had before the debuff hit, you do nothing? (This is at the end of a fight and you have no chance to get DF in because you are OOE and have no potions )

Anyway, to be able to throw in another weapon with poisons IS possible though, so you have the option.

If someone purges a poison, they don't get their hundreds of HP back, they just get their hundreds of max HP back, they would then need a heal to get those back.


If they are purging a debuff at the end of a fight and I landed a debuff right at the start (always on my mainhand opener) then that's pretty damn stupid, seeing as though they'll have been fighting the whole time debuffed.

As for being ooe. If it's getting down to the wire and I'm ooe, that's when I pop a BP stone (carry 8, and have another 8 in my vault if I'm running low), end pot (don't often carry these though), or rely on tireless 2 to give me the 2 pixels of end I would need for a hamstring or DF.


And just to be a pedant, scouts too can carry backup weapons in their packs with poisons pre-applied (or indeed can carry charged items), so you also have the option. In practice though, it's tedious.

 

[Tranquil-]

Though scouts would have to get others to apply the poison for them.


Actually I've been thinking about getting a lot of dirks(cheap) and get some inf to apply some snare on them. Stun them, they purge, you flip out the unbreakable snare and get some range. :F

 

[kaod]

Re: Re: Re: Clarifications

Originally posted by Pin


OMFG FFS NERF!!!

You get crit shot IX on your xbow, volley, longshot and major dmg - come on pin... you know you want this.

 

[censi]

This that annoy me about all this

inf > sb > ns

no logic behind that, stealth classes dont fall under the same catagory as tanks theres no reason NS should be so weak... The 3 stealth classes should be roughly equaly...

SH

Just absolutly destroys the game for Archers... Removes all elements of skill and gameplay... Assasins will own Archers so badly with this.

Buffbotts

No comment.

Fixes... Nerf infs and SB a bit to bring them into line with NS...
Remove SH
Range on active buffs.

Daoc is fixed again.

 

[Gekul]

Fixes... Nerf infs and SB a bit to bring them into line with NS...

Why is it always nerf instead of improve the underpowered class?

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Gekul


Why is it always nerf instead of improve the underpowered class?

Because Censi is a Ranger who would like better chances at soloing Infs and SBs

 

[kaod]

Originally posted by Gekul


Why is it always nerf instead of improve the underpowered class?

There needs to be a level 1 BG for all the ppl who keep crying nerf.

 

[kinadold]

Archers should not be able to outmelee an assasin, but since
both stealther class, it would be fair if 50/50 chance to pick fights.
It aint so since SH. Assasins allways gets first attack these days,
and push archer into a 'no weapon' situation, since you will get interrupted.

A scout will have 4 spec lines, he can use in a fight.

Bow = negated by interrupt, will do 300'ish on a sb with slash arrows on a 3-4 sec shoot unbuffed. Crit is close to imposibel to get off.
Stealth = negated by SH.
Shield = somewhat useful, but not good against dualwielders. Slam can be negated by purge.
Melee = nowhere near the performance of an assasin even when specced 50.

Scouts simply cannot solo anymore, they have turned into weak nukers, who begs for groups at atk.

Maybe noobs like Unity dont understand this, he might think his good with his buffbot and SH, but he aint. He is the kind of players
who start a new class each time Mythic makes a mistake, so he can feel good. Some scouts give him a good fight before he kills
them he says....

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Slash has a penalty to Studded armour.
Slash has a Bonus to SB Leather.


If you wanna fight assasins, Figure it out.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

As you all can check he really is a noob who dont even know basics about the game ( he uses a buffbot and dont have too )

Alb studded neutral to slash
Slash has bonus to SB leather, but penalty to NS leather, but maybe NS's aint assasins.

I dont mind not being able to solo anymore, but then give me
damageoutput and speed like a nuker. I get studded, a little melee and more hp, he gets cc and utility. Give me something
like MoC and quickshoot so i can still fight when a tank comes close. With end chant/buff there is noway an archer can avoid tanks in fg vs fg, and he dont have any way to fight back. Maybe most people think archers are allways at max range in fg vs fg rvr,
and therefore can use his bow. The list or archer problems are very long, Mythic is just to lazy to make viabel fixes, and since most scouts allready left it aint a big concern.

 

[Carlos Bananos]

Assasins where made to be archer hunters after the old archer days, where 1 archer could kill just about anyone with ease.

But i think mythic tipped the balance too much for the assasins

 

[Runolaz]

Originally posted by censi
This that annoy me about all this

inf > sb > ns

no logic behind that, stealth classes dont fall under the same catagory as tanks theres no reason NS should be so weak... The 3 stealth classes should be roughly equaly...

I don't think it's that easy. There are lots different specs outthere, and the population of NS is much lower than SB/INF and when we talk high RR NS they are amoung the hardest opponents out there. Also the bounuses from Relics hits in hard on assassin vs assassin.

Originally posted by censi

SH

Just absolutly destroys the game for Archers... Removes all elements of skill and gameplay... Assasins will own Archers so badly with this.

Why is that?? You still have Camo, and every one and his uncle is speccing MoP instead of SH. Aplha doesn't even have Camo, do you see him whine about it??

Originally posted by censi

Fixes... Nerf infs and SB a bit to bring them into line with NS...
Remove SH
Range on active buffs.

Daoc is fixed again.

IF there really is a gap, and I think it has much to to with Hib's in general not aming for str Relics, the NS should be boosted to bring it up too SB/INF, rather than the two others nerfed.

 

[old.Filip]

Why is that?? You still have Camo, and every one and his uncle is speccing MoP instead of SH. Aplha doesn't even have Camo, do you see him whine about it??

there is a hugh difference between Thrust and Slash Spec...
im thrust minser and if a SB got SH and jumps me my only choise is to run ... something im good at ... but i imagine that scouts have a harder time running from the SB..

 

[Runolaz]

Originally posted by old.Filip


there is a hugh difference between Thrust and Slash Spec...
im thrust minser and if a SB got SH and jumps me my only choise is to run ... something im good at ... but i imagine that scouts have a harder time running from the SB..

Well belive it or not most stay to figth. I usually jump Minstrell when I know I have purge up. So unless you have purge up yourself (Snare) then your going nowhere and we're figthing it to the death.

Point is that there is VERY few assassins out there with SH. So there should be no problem walking arround stealthed as a Minstel/Archer. In addition Archers have TS/Camo make it a none issue that SH is in the game.

This thread is mainly about a Scout wanting to be best at both ranged and h2h combat...well you can't be best in both, as many have tried to tell him.

 

[old.Filip]

hmm i rarely solo ....

but when i solo get jumped by a SB icant remember ever to not been able to run away (SOS, purge, stun/speed song) like i cant remember every to kill em...
i tryed 1 time vs jox ..i died badly..

used ip but was only able to hit him 1 time. in melee.. (i think for around 70 (-40)
i got no buff's and i think he was fuly buffed .. he got at least some damm add on him..(evul blue text)

Filip
Minser of HB

 

[skile]

Originally posted by Carlos Bananos


No, i didni't mention RAs, my point is, you ARE NOT somthing similar to an assasin, just because you come from the same base class, doesn't meanyour entitled to thier abilities, strengths, or weaknesses.

If you want to be similar to an assasin, go that extra step further and roll one.

YOU chose your spec, either melee orientated to fight assasins (50 slash) or sniper orientated (50 LB).

you have the choice, if melee spec doesn't appeal to you, dont cry about it being under par damage

Whats the matter with you. Been answering the same thing. FIX archers (archers should shoot with their bows) instead of forcing to make a Hybrid thats less good than any assasin, no matter if it's meleespecced. And you are right, If I am to have a meleescout I might as well roll a boring infiltrator. But I won't.

You are also saying that assains should kill stealthers and other assasins? You mean archers aren't suppost to kill assasins? Wheres the logics here? Assasins are basically just as good (or better, esp vs enchanters, when it comes to casters), to kill them that is. Whats an archer suppost to kill? Himself at a maingate?

Archers need fix, not to be a hybrdig gimp.

 

[Carlos Bananos]

Originally posted by skile


Whats the matter with you. Been answering the same thing. FIX archers (archers should shoot with their bows) instead of forcing to make a Hybrid thats less good than any assasin, no matter if it's meleespecced. And you are right, If I am to have a meleescout I might as well roll a boring infiltrator. But I won't.

You are also saying that assains should kill stealthers and other assasins? You mean archers aren't suppost to kill assasins? Wheres the logics here? Assasins are basically just as good (or better, esp vs enchanters, when it comes to casters), to kill them that is. Whats an archer suppost to kill? Himself at a maingate?

Archers need fix, not to be a hybrdig gimp.

With thier bow yes, thats thier speciality.


In melee, no, melee is assasins speciality.


Stop whining about it.


Basically, you want uber melee without speccing for it.

 

[skile]

Originally posted by Runolaz


Yeah, but how often do you think an assassin with no SH will see an archer from Clip-range? You didn't make your Scout to hunt assassins did you?

SH costs 8 and is loads of _free_ rps. We are still many active scouts out there. Volley will be intresting, may be effective in regular group RvsR. Getting TS too, just to get my revenge on the buffbots (also known as the SB's). So, hopefully I won't run solo anymore. I specced my scout with no TS just to have a bit of a chance vs assasins. But it's quite clear, with buffbots out there and them being overpowered theres no point.

If I don't find a group with my future groupscout I'll just level a alt, really. Or make a run to amg with TS and then log in a alt.

Gonna spec 50 bow, 25 thrust, 30 stealth, 42 shield. A bit sad that the damage between 40-50 bow don't make much of a difference. But theres no point In speccing elsewhere until they make archers soloable.

 

[skile]

Originally posted by Carlos Bananos


With thier bow yes, thats thier speciality.


In melee, no, melee is assasins speciality.


Stop whining about it.


Basically, you want uber melee without speccing for it.

No, I want SH removed. Don't mind (THE UBER I CAN KILL ONCE EVERY 30 MIN TS!!!!!11 "It's really good" (c) Carlos) removed either. That and make scout better with bow and I'm happy. In RvsR grouping the shield works quite ok and tanks often don't have purge up.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by skile

and tanks often don't have slam up.

slam been moved to a timer?

 

[skile]

Meant purge. *Need ZZzzzzz*