Clarifications

[Carlos Bananos]

Originally posted by froler-mid


(snare+dot, dot+PA, dot+PA , tank dead)

And i've played infil and SB, SBs using 2 weapons to PA hit for dick on tanks (100-200) due to the way LA works (you lose a % of dmg using other styles)

Played an infil once, and it was quite different, more dmg on CS styles, which seem worth using for you guys


And yes, the SB zerg sucks from that end.

 

[froler-mid]

Originally posted by Carlos Bananos


I hide him in the trees


Nah, end regen = sprint from mtk to amg in about 1 min 30, so i got just over 3 mins of wublyness with end regen+resist buffs

yea...and why should i attack sbs outside mpk again? (nerf endbuff pls)

 

[Carlos Bananos]

Originally posted by froler-mid



yea...and why should i attack sbs outside mpk again? (nerf endbuff pls)

I was just a little dissapointed u where picking on hunters (most gimped class ever) and wouldn't come to me

 

[froler-mid]

Originally posted by Carlos Bananos



I was just a little dissapointed u where picking on hunters (most gimped class ever) and wouldn't come to me

i ganked 2 hunters and u expect me too stand and fight a end buffed+buffed sb with (prolly) purge up? NO THX ;>

 

[Runolaz]

Originally posted by Carlos Bananos


a Detaunt hoping to evade?

A taunt hoping to evade

Best thing I did latly was killing Voskos and Ayabata after they both jumped me. First I purge, then smack down INF, and turn on Voskos lands 3xComback-Frosty Gaze combo. If I had use DF I would be out of END after the INF.

 

[sorusi]

oh i might add that DF sucks compared to rest of the LA styles cos of its relatively low dmg, also snowblind sucks ;>

also garrote is allmost more dmg than DF or allmost same dmg

 

[Carlos Bananos]

Originally posted by Runolaz


A taunt hoping to evade clap:

Best thing I did latly was killing Voskos and Ayabata after they both jumped me. First I purge, then smack down INF, and turn on Voskos lands 3xComback-Frosty Gaze combo. If I had use DF I would be out of END after the INF.

Nice

i got a comeback, FG, comeback, comeback on Yog when him and Lomald jumped me, i won and i was unbuffed, (lomald was buffed)

 

[sorusi]

i once saw an solo inf aswell ages ago tho :/

 

[Carlos Bananos]

Originally posted by sorusi
oh i might add that DF sucks compared to rest of the LA styles cos of its relatively low dmg, also snowblind sucks ;>

also garrote is allmost more dmg than DF or allmost same dmg

u need 55-60 CS for Garrote to do more dmg

my Garrote hits for about half DF damage, and has a med Pen to defence ;(

 

[Carlos Bananos]

Originally posted by sorusi
i once saw an solo inf aswell ages ago tho :/

Aye, it's nice to see!

I thought i saw Sst Solo yesterday, i was liek "omfg"


then another infil PAd me, 2 minstreles stunned me, and 3 archers shot me.

 

[sorusi]

think eeny got more dmg off it or something when he tested not 100% sure if it was him tho

 

[Carlos Bananos]

my garrote hits for about 100


DF hits for around 300.


guess im gimped ;X

 

[Runolaz]

Originally posted by sorusi
oh i might add that DF sucks compared to rest of the LA styles cos of its relatively low dmg, also snowblind sucks ;>

also garrote is allmost more dmg than DF or allmost same dmg

I like Snowblind better, cuz it uses up less END than Garrote.

 

[belth]

From 1.56 patch notes, again
Because of the great advantages Assassin classes - Nightshades, Shadowblades, and Infiltrators - now have over almost any other class in the game (poisons, stealth, devastating combat styles, good base damage, extremely high evade, etc.

Ok, SZs got BS2->Snowsquall->Icy Brilliance. Where's my "devastating" combat styles? Or NS? Perfing a lvl50 shammy with crap armor (low thrust resists) for less than 300 with 50 base CS is not something I expected to do while not rez-sick.

 

[old.anubis]

perfing green con pet from blue necros for 150 with 50 CS either

 

[skile]

Originally posted by Carlos Bananos


Thats wrong though, not all assasins spec for PA, it's like saying a Skald/Minstrel who doesn't spec for the Last DD (46+ spec) shouldn't be able to beat similar classes without getting thier DD in.

whether your speaking both the scout and shadowblade buffed, or the scout and shadowblade unbuffed (i use this cos im a SB) i can't just run upto a scout and start meleeing, it points to left axe, a very powerfull skill..for the 1st three rounds, once im OOE after 3-4 Doublefrosts, i've done about 900-1100 damage, then, im fighting unstyled, and unstyled left axe is TERRIBLE, (all the damage from LA is about 70% Style damage)

So i do often 'have to' get a PA + CD in to beat a scout with ease, just like a scout has to get slam in to beat me with ease, if neither of us get our move in, then it's always a very close fight.

Archers should be natural snipers (bladeturn issue, not assasin) so melee shouldn't be thier strong point..

where as melee IS assasins strong point, and only form of offence. So when it come down to the classes, assasins should out melee archers.
the only change that would justify Archers being able to outmelee assasins, would be if i could PA from 2200 range


dont get me wrong, i'm not saying archers dont need help, but Archer Vs Assasin atm is pretty fair.

In general that is, on excalibur the assasin population is about 4x as big as the archer pop, but thats only population imbalances, not class balances

Exactly what I'm saying. Assasins does have Zerk/Merc skill, they shouln't.

 

[skile]

Originally posted by Pin



Okay. Where on earth do you get these silly ideas??

Let's look at my character and you character.

I have specced 50 in Thrust, 29 in DW, 44 in CS, 32 in Envenom. That's 3224 spec points, (plus a hell of a lot of RR and equipment) all targetted for close-up melee battles.

To say that the only thing those spent points should give me is a ~500 point opening damage style plus a follow-up stun is rediculous. Assassins (from all realms) are specced for high damage in close combat, with added effects of hindering and additionally damaging their opponents with poisons.


Now, let's look at a typical Scout template (not saying it's how everyone is specced, or how you are specced, just it's a fairly common one).

46 Longbow,
42 Shield,
29 Slash,
33 Stealth.


Now, how do you expect that sort of template to be able to win in melee vs. an assassin? Even if they drop LB/Stealth down to raise weapon into the mid-30s, they are still going to have less than 800 weaponskill with the sword in their hands. They are specced to do damage at range, not in melee.

Sure, they could maybe try to land slam and back up to shoot a couple of times, but that's not winning in melee.


The whole point is that archers are meant to win at range, assassins are meant to win in close combat.



(Oh, and unbuffed infs can indeed solo RR3 champs )

Archers are called arhers for a reason. IF they spec melee, 50 shield, 50 thrust/slash they are not archers. They are a very very very very gimped version of a armsman with a bit of stealth. Archers should SHOOT their way to being equal to assasins, they can't. If they don't add a way to shoot in melee or get something to spot assasins but assasins dont spot or on a equal timer (which it's not atm).

 

[Runolaz]

Originally posted by belth


Ok, SZs got BS2->Snowsquall->Icy Brilliance. Where's my "devastating" combat styles? Or NS? Perfing a lvl50 shammy with crap armor (low thrust resists) for less than 300 with 50 base CS is not something I expected to do while not rez-sick.

Hmm...mainly the hardest nerf was aimed at INF speccing for Dragonfang. The most "Devastating" combat styles is Dragonfang, and combined with IP and high rate of Evade it was overwelming.

Anyway a shaman is not a good example if you were unbuffed and he most likly was. Your dmg on a Shaman with 300 on a PA is not that interesting as you should win anyway. The question is what do you PA an Archer/Tank/Mage that are unbuffed. I have been PA'ed by Knockout for 1024 so I don't think it that gimped.

I think one of the problems is that buffed PA's is actually what got the PA dmg nerfed.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by skile


Exactly what I'm saying. Assasins does have Zerk/Merc skill, they shouln't.

We don't have zerk/merc skill. They have ~50% more weaponskill than we do... In turn, assassins then have ~50% more weaponskill than your scout does.

A zerk/merc will beat an assassin 1v1 on most occasions (until the assassin learns how to choose his fights), and an assassin will beat an archer 1v1 on most occasions.

 

[skile]

"Having said that you probably should have made a regulare tank."

ROFL! U mean a tank with studded armor and shit hitpoints?
What a joke.

 

[Runolaz]

Originally posted by skile

Archers are called arhers for a reason. IF they spec melee, 50 shield, 50 thrust/slash they are not archers. They are a very very very very gimped version of a armsman with a bit of stealth. Archers should SHOOT their way to being equal to assasins, they can't. If they don't add a way to shoot in melee or get something to spot assasins but assasins dont spot or on a equal timer (which it's not atm).

Again most assassins don't have SH, and Archers got TS so wtf is your point. In any event the Archer starts pounding me with arrows I'm dead. Other way arround if I come accross an Archer in strait up melee I will winn most of the time, but If they slam and start shooting me then I'm often dead.

...Take a look at the Hunter...and you whine??

 

[Tranquil-]

Originally posted by herjulf
They should not be able to take an archer god forgive, that they should be able to do that omg, nerf.

An infil/ns/sb has to put alot of time in getting the right setup for a kill.

What do a sniper have to do, to kill a sb/infil/ns?
TS, aim CRIT goodbye.

You can't critshot targets moving in stealth.

 

[skile]

Re: Re: Clarifications

Originally posted by Runolaz


It 's wrong, because you view the game logics from your point of view. An Assassins is designed to land huge amout of dmg over a short period of time, they dont have the defensive power to sustain a prolonged figth. An Archer is first and formost an Archer and not a melee, if you spec the way most do. If you had specced a Scout with 42 Shield and 44+ Main hand then you would probably stand better vs an Assassin. Having said that you probably should have made a regulare tank.

To be a stealth Archer you have to sacrifice somthing, and that my friend is the ability to melee. Assassin have no ranged attack and in grp environmet their defensive abilities makes them soft targets.



A Scout with Slam (I about 99% have) is indeed a char to watch out for. If the scout get in the slam things can get uggly, but if not then yeah an Assassin will take down the Scout, cuz Scouts are mainly ranged figthers with ok h2h abilities, but the assassin on the otherhand is a specialiced h2h figther. TS is also a powerful tool, but best used when in grp's and not solo. Nothing is more iritating than getting TS and then have 2-3FG on my neck
.



Even if they miss PA they should still have a good chance at killing you. I don't think your 99% is true I'm sure you have slammed some and killed them, but unless you make the slam you should probably die 99% of the time. An Assassin is after all a figther mend to get in close and your not. I think we have a situation that most assassins either don't spec SH or w8 to later RR, and judging from the Archers I've bumped into most of them have TS.



Fail to see why they are not balanced. Assassin should have an advatage over a ranged figther class like Archers. Assassins use most of their spec points in offensive melee skilles. So there is simply nothig to be fixed.



Why is that? SZ is a viable spec, but you sacrifice other things to be one. It is a viable spec for an assassin as it in fact is a close quarter-figther. Creating only 1 or 2 viable templates for SB IMHO would be boring. I enjoy my SZ, but I also see that in some situations I'm weaker than a 5-Spec or CB, but SZ overall fits my way of playing...an no its not about spamming DF, cuz actually I don't use it anymore



Again Assassins are build purly for "gettin in there", thus should have a good chance of winning. I would say about 80/20, but it all depends on the spec. I've bumped into melee Rangers that are REALLY hard to take out, and I hade to restealth about 3 times before we were done. Was fun though, cuz the figth lasted almost 10 min

Uhm. Well rangers are VERY VERY VERY much better than scouts melee due to purge introduced and gotten (due to the loss of ip) by all(or almost?) assasins. Rangers aren't dependable on something that can be totally undone, like slam to purge.

Neither are hunters.

About the PA thing. You need to read my posts again. I won't explain it again, it's up to you to try understanding, don't see how I can make it clear. It's your brain.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by skile


Archers are called arhers for a reason. IF they spec melee, 50 shield, 50 thrust/slash they are not archers. They are a very very very very gimped version of a armsman with a bit of stealth. Archers should SHOOT their way to being equal to assasins, they can't. If they don't add a way to shoot in melee or get something to spot assasins but assasins dont spot or on a equal timer (which it's not atm).

Then try speccing something like

50 Thrust,
40 LB,
32 Stealth,
29 Shield

A couple of levels of Dodger and you will be evading in (almost) every melee fight and you'll stand a far better chance vs. an assassin in melee (you'll do FAR more damage in melee and won't just be praying that you land your 'please, please, please land this time' slam).

 

[skile]

People do seem to forget that TS (read this now) is on a 30 MINUTE timer. Thats 1/2 of an hour. So I should go afk at atk 30 mins to kill something? No, I won't. A scout is good every 30 mins, well a assasin is good every second.

 

[skile]

Originally posted by Pin



Then try speccing something like

50 Thrust,
40 LB,
32 Stealth,
29 Shield

A couple of levels of Dodger and you will be evading in (almost) every melee fight and you'll stand a far better chance vs. an assassin in melee (you'll do FAR more damage in melee and won't just be praying that you land your 'please, please, please land this time' slam).

Still dependable on Ignore pain. And 40 LB is way to shitty damage. I won't spec a ubergimped assasin. I rolled a archer, not a gimped hybrid.

Remove see hidden AND truesight. I won't go after SB's. I'm a happy guy . Just GTAOE volley at amg gate b4 going through .

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by skile

ROFL! U mean a tank with studded armor and shit hitpoints?
What a joke.

Studded armour is better than leather. You can also quite easily get 1300 hitpoints unbuffed. The problem is that you aren't specced to do anything very useful in melee. If something comes in range you rely on landing slam and hoping you don't miss with your nerfed-to-hell bow.

Running isn't much of an option if you've been snared, and you don't have a ranger/hunter speed shout to get your distance either.

 

[skile]

Originally posted by Pin


Studded armour is better than leather. You can also quite easily get 1300 hitpoints unbuffed. The problem is that you aren't specced to do anything very useful in melee. If something comes in range you rely on landing slam and hoping you don't miss with your nerfed-to-hell bow.

Running isn't much of an option if you've been snared, and you don't have a ranger/hunter speed shout to get your distance either.

Dragonfang or slam, can still be purged my dear Pin. Can still be evaded. I have 42+13 in shield atm. Thats 55, should be hitting quite a bit.

PA, stun. Well here my so called good melee archers is killed without moving. Debuffs poision, cripple. Evade 7?

9% absorb difference isn't leather vs plate really.

 

[Carlos Bananos]

ack, the point pin is trying to make, is DONT expect to be good in melee, if you dont spec for melee ffs.



Assasins are designed for Melee, thats ALL they do, give us 2200 range PAs and i'd be more than happy to have archer level melee.


Reminds me of the minstrels with 10 stealth whining that 'minstrel stealth' is nerfed

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by skile


Still dependable on Ignore pain. And 40 LB is way to shitty damage. I won't spec a ubergimped assasin. I rolled a archer, not a gimped hybrid.

How is it dependable on Ignore Pain? You have the same hitpoints as an assassin, you'll have the same weaponskill as an assassin specced to 50 weapon. You'll have specced shield and studded instead of DW/LA and higher evade (and the higher evade isn't worth all that much after the cap).

So, you say you rolled an archer, specced purely to do ranged damage, and still you're complaining that you shouldn't lose in melee?

And 40 (+ ~13) LB is not shitty bow damage at all - these are no longer the days of 1-hit, crit-shot snipers killing all with impunity. People have SC'd armour, people have capped resists, there's all the other things that archers complain constantly about (BT, PBT, stupid miss and fumble rates, etc). 50-80 points damage off your crit-shot hit isn't going to matter squat if you die EVERY time someone gets to you in melee.