City and fortress sieges - why bother?

[GReaper]

After playing quite a lot this evening and the past few days, I'm highly disappointed in the entire siege aspect of the game. It's quite boring in some places and quite confusing in others.

Firstly, being able to take zones to progress onto the next zone is just confusing and annoying due to the awful victory points system. You can take all the keeps in a zone and you can't progress any further because you don't have enough victory points. You don't actually know how much of an effort you really need to get to the next step because it's a bar which hardly moves. The RvR system should be logical, I'd personally suggest that if all keeps in a zone are claimed for so many hours then you could move forward - instead of a system with unknown variables.

Next we move onto the fortress. Yes it's a great big structure and rather impressive, however the fights here are just lagfests - there is no fun when the game engine just can't cope with so many players. Many players are supposed to be able to take part in these sieges, yet my fairly decent machine gets annoyingly laggy.

Once two fortresses are taken we move onto the city siege, the most exciting moment of the game!

After going into Altdorf, getting the invader quests and completing them you have to think - why bother? I've got some gems as a reward from the quests inside which haven't been explained at all, I assume they'll give me some nice armour eventually.

However the most boring part is the fact that the entire city invasion is a PQ...

A PQ which keeps on repeating over and over with no end in sight...

Yet again the wonderful victory points system seems to be in action, even though we're winning the PQ on a regular basis the bar doesn't seem to be moving far enough to get to the next stage. The city invasion PQ is boring and repetitive, eventually the defenders give up but it still keeps going on and on!

The one annoying thing about Altdorf and The Inevitable City are the fact that they're probably the most common sources of the crash to desktop, many people in our warband had a CTD quite a few times. You get booted outside Altdorf and have to try and join the right scenario as the damn encounter is instanced. Rejoining the warband the game put me in a queue just to join my group! After waiting 10 mins I decided to relog and join solo, fortunately I instantly joined the right instance which my party was already in. Why the hell didn't it let me in quickly in the first place?


Sorry for the rant, but I'm just annoyed that this is supposed to be the end game of WAR - raiding the enemy city, yet it feels quite boring and buggy.

 

[Robin the Brave]

Even more fun from the Order point of view, you cant defend with all the lag so no one bothers and now no one can play tier 4 scenarios.. atleast i dont have to join serpents.

I've tried to join the Altdorf War Quarters since stonewatch was abused but no luck.

 

[Soazak]

Yea, I didn't really find it much fun either, made a lvl 1 BW instead on another server and went to Nordenwatch

 

[Sagafar]

Level an alt and wait for mythic to sort out the stuff, it'll get better but prolly take a while. It's the same as always imo.

Just relax!

 

[Wild]

was like this in closed beta .. the inevitable city one we did lasted 24 hours of the same 2 PQ's over and over again ... a lot of disapointment on the forums as game was due to release in 4 weeks at the time . well its been 6 weeks now since then and still no change to this horrible "end game" ..

i can only hope that in the "pipeline" there is a big patch comming that will totally change city seiges /pray

 

[Rayko]

I wonder if we (order) will ever get to see the inevitable city on KEP

 

[aika]

backdoor invaders!

(sorry had to say that! )

 

[Downanael]

People were talking about this on beta forums but never got answer asfar i'm aware from Mythic. Have to wonder what the hell were Elder beta testers doing if they were supposed to be testing this.

OT: Might wanna post this on WHA,quite a few devs in there.

 

[Legean]

Right now Destuction are essentially PvEing their way to the capital and then having to PvE some more once inside. When Order catches up id guess things would be much more enjoyable, at least as long as they fix the CTD issues in capitals.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

*waits for the first wave of "this game has no/broken end game"-whine*

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

was like this in closed beta .. the inevitable city one we did lasted 24 hours of the same 2 PQ's over and over again ... a lot of disapointment on the forums as game was due to release in 4 weeks at the time . well its been 6 weeks now since then and still no change to this horrible "end game" ..

i can only hope that in the "pipeline" there is a big patch comming that will totally change city seiges /pray

Agreed, end-game right now needs some serious boost and variety. Been part of one and watched a ton of vids about another, looked incredibly repetitive.

 

[Skaven]

Dunno why they can't just make it the same RvR as camlelot used to be. I find having to have hookpoints for siege weapons bullcrap imo.

 

[mrbandersnatch]

I as well as a few mid lvl 30s friends have been trying to participate/defend Altdorf. We cant even get INTO an instance due to a bug (?) saying the our ranks are too low (only mid 20s RR). I went to try and get in via the Reikland entrance...and couldnt get in due to some bug with the instances themselves.

So yes, on K8P atm, Altdorf is poorly defended and those who have tried to defend have given up in disgust because they are being zerged; and the many of us who would like to mitigate the zerg cant even participate!

Bugged, Buggier, Buggered!!

 

[GReaper]

Level an alt and wait for mythic to sort out the stuff, it'll get better but prolly take a while. It's the same as always imo.

This game was in public beta testing for well over a year, there has been plenty of opportunity for Mythic/GOA to obtain feedback on one of the most important parts of the game - what happens at level 40 with RvR. The majority of the testing from what I remember was below level 30, apart from a couple of times with focus testing.

What really annoys me that the pinnacle of RvR is... a PvE encounter with some players to defend it.

Some of us logged in this afternoon to try a few times to see if we could make any progress, but sadly it just repeats the PQ over and over and we don't seem any further towards capturing the city - the victory point bar just doesn't move. We eventually gave up out of boredom.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

This game was in public beta testing for well over a year, there has been plenty of opportunity for Mythic/GOA to obtain feedback on one of the most important parts of the game - what happens at level 40 with RvR. The majority of the testing from what I remember was below level 30, apart from a couple of times with focus testing.

What really annoys me that the pinnacle of RvR is... a PvE encounter with some players to defend it.

Some of us logged in this afternoon to try a few times to see if we could make any progress, but sadly it just repeats the PQ over and over and we don't seem any further towards capturing the city - the victory point bar just doesn't move. We eventually gave up out of boredom.

Requiel giving out beta access to guilds which sucked up high enough to him instead of bringing in individuals that know what and how to test didn't pay out then?

 

[Reno]

The T4 part of the last part of closed ( guild) beta, lasted 2 weeks or so with all ppl starting at lvl 31.
We were not told to focus on anything, just play and report. This was also the first time the elf T4 pairing was seen btw.
At the end of it sufficient ppl had exploited/lvled their way to 40 that some higher end content was done, or 3 days of consecutive city sieges.
From GOA's reactions we were not expected to be able to even get there, as they had not lowered the difficulty for the sieges, like they did for a test on the US focus server.
To say ppl were underwhelmed by it all is a bit of an understatement.

Probably/obviously not all of the feedback/bug reports has been dealt with.

Danita

 

[Fefner]

Well this was my only concern when i decided to play EU knowing that in daoc french servers couldnt handle large scale rvr and now they bring us a game which is made for large scale rvr and again the french servers cant handle it. Yes maybe US servers have also had lag problems in this so why on earth did they even think any server or even home computer would handle a large scale 100+ vs 100+ battle. Dont get me wrong i do love the game but from what ppl are saying about end game it seems its not enough. Maybe it lacks the big frontier style rvr in daoc for roaming groups instead of this we kill some group only to see them 20 secs later cause the respawn place so too close by.

 

[Enli]

and even when its fixed, i'll love the rant on Volkmar He's nasty

i wonder if gotrek joins in as NPC, like an unkillable wirlwind :/

 

[[HB]Jpeg]

I aint tried tier 4 rvr properly yet. but ive explored a bit of it last cple days and i reckon there is enough landscape to roam as a group and enjopy some 6v6 action.

 

[Xandax]

Perhaps when Order catches up in numbers and levels - more basis for fighting will exist.
Right now many Order on K8P doesn't even bother.

 

[Calaen]

Some people are actually exploring the lands and trying to discover unlocks and stuff on the way up to 40. It only the power gamers that are whiny

 

[Toel]

Well, even though it'll take some time before I'll be seeing a city siege I can't say I'm the slightest bit comforted. Why does everything have to be instanced these days? Gief simplicity

 

[Xandax]

Well, even though it'll take some time before I'll be seeing a city siege I can't say I'm the slightest bit comforted. Why does everything have to be instanced these days? Gief simplicity

Usually - because it is easier to do load balancing and game balancing. If only 40 players can enter from each side, you do not get 200 vs. 40 zerg. And you can place the fight on another server so you don't crash the game when it can't cope.

Not having experienced this "end game" yet as I'm far from it in level, I can't say what I think of it though.

 

[Prudil]

Tried to defend Altdorf via the scenario tool - waited forever, nothing happened and we got bored.
Tried to enter Altdorf via Reikland entrance - could not enter, camped for a while and got bored.
Tried to roam the Tier4 areas - got bored very quickly.

No more stuff for lvl40's to do (as all the good dungeons are in -> Altdorf and tier4 scenarios were not available due to Altdorf being under attack).

Re roll and level up an alt in t1/2 sc!

 

[Toel]

Usually - because it is easier to do load balancing and game balancing. If only 40 players can enter from each side, you do not get 200 vs. 40 zerg. And you can place the fight on another server so you don't crash the game when it can't cope.

Not having experienced this "end game" yet as I'm far from it in level, I can't say what I think of it though.

Yeah, I guess. I suppose the reason why non-instanced battlegrounds worked in DAoC was because there was three factions.

 

[GReaper]

Looks like Destruction managed to take the zone to the next stage earlier today.

Firstly the entire thing took place early afternoon (14:30-15:00 BST), so even though the hours of effort were put in by many players - once the clock starts ticking you've got 2 hours to complete PQs to keep Altdorf open for 24 hours. So even though you may have put in loads of effort in trying to get to the 2nd stage, if some other players push it into the 2nd stage then it's tough luck. Fortunately I was able to login this afternoon, but I would've been annoyed if I hadn't.

So I enter Altdorf and everyone is at the bright wizard college encounter. I've never known such an annoying encounter. Players get instakilled constantly and healers can't rez because they get the "you are too terrified to do this" message. So we've got a constant stream of people releasing and running back just to complete the encounter. We do eventually kill the damn mob for the encounter and nobody gets any loot, nobody has enough contribution. I've attached a screenshot to show how fucked up this is.

Eventually we head towards the Altdorf Palace where the next problem occurs - only level 40's can get in. So even though level 30+ can raid the city, it's pointless for them to come along if they can't get to the next stage. Luckily I hit level 40 yesterday so I was able to zone inside.

Yet again the Altdorf Palace is one of those places where you can't rez because you're too terrified to do anything. As a healer I got killed and thought the best thing to do was release so I could get back quickly and take part in the raid...

Big mistake, it doesn't release you to Altdorf or even just outside in Reikwald, it releases you back to the fucking Reikland war camp. Looks like the rest of the raid carried on and killed one of the bosses inside the palace, so when I tried to go back inside the palace it wouldn't let me in, my progress didn't match that of the warbands instance I'm joining.

I couldn't join the warband, so what the hell am I supposed to do?


The overall fun factor on this was reduced to nothing. Mythic obviously didn't test city sieges well enough, I assume they did some minor focus tests on each part and didn't consider how well they'd all fit together.

It's an utter failure and a beta quality game.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

It's an utter failure and a beta quality game.

Wouldn't call it that, but it's defo in a similar bad state as Tabula Rasa and Age of Conan and we know what happened to those two games.

MJ and his marketing team are high-nosed enough to call Warhammer the "smoothest launch in recent MMOG history", but let's wait and see what will happen after the free month is up.

I'm tempted to not resub after the free month, mostly due to reasons stated on FH (target out of range, broken CC and collision detection, lag, DPS > healing in Tier 3/4, only one scenario pro tier running and so on).

 

[civy]

Scrap the city capture till they can sort it out and slap a relic type thing in each of the end keeps. Object is nice and simple. Capture it and run it to your own fortess. Just a sticking plaster till they can sort city takes out to be fun.

 

[Xanthea]

Level an alt and wait for mythic to sort out the stuff, it'll get better but prolly take a while. It's the same as always imo.

Just relax!

Level an alt? make that level 20 alts's....You know it took like years before mythic sorted the daoc lag issue's..

 

[Gahn]

Wouldn't call it that, but it's defo in a similar bad state as Tabula Rasa and Age of Conan and we know what happened to those two games.

MJ and his marketing team are high-nosed enough to call Warhammer the "smoothest launch in recent MMOG history", but let's wait and see what will happen after the free month is up.

I'm tempted to not resub after the free month, mostly due to reasons stated on FH (target out of range, broken CC and collision detection, lag, DPS > healing in Tier 3/4, only one scenario pro tier running and so on).

Yeh i do wonder if the infamous TTK raising was only applied to t1-2 -.-