China's First Aircraft Carrier

[Gwadien]

Right then, since they're like one of the couple of super-powers on the planet, why have they bought a Soviet one from the Ukraine? - Are they recycling or something?

This confuses me since they surely have the resources to make their own huge ones to dwarf Americas?

 

[Tom]

China isn't a superpower.

 

[throdgrain]

If it's anything like thier bikes, I doubt it will make it's first MoT

 

[Gwadien]

In that case, America is the only Super-Power? - I completely disagree, the power China has around the world is scary, economically, and military.

Imagine if they suddenly said LOL, let's stop trading with the rest of the world, Countries would melt, businesses would die out in their thousands, and they'd stay strong, they will be damaged by it, yes, but no-where as much as the West would.

 

[Raven]

All our shit wouldn't fall apart as soon as you look at it though.

 

[Zarjazz]

Imagine if they suddenly said LOL, let's stop trading with the rest of the world, Countries would melt, businesses would die out in their thousands, and they'd stay strong, they will be damaged by it, yes, but no-where as much as the West would.

It's not that simple. With no one to buy all their products their economy would collapse all those newly affluent Chinese workers would end up back in the rice fields. That would not go down well at all.

 

[cHodAX]

Russia is a superpower, anyone thinking otherwise is deluded. They have vast gas/oil reserves with the potential for huge fields still to be discovered. Due to sheer landmass they have an insane amount of coal and mineral wealth. On the military side they are upgrading their remaining forces to modern standards and still have a ridiculous amount of tanks, artillery and huge ammunition stores. Oh and lets not forget the vast nuclear arsenal.

As for China, an emerging superpower for sure but they still lack the ability to project power overseas, this carrier is the first step but they need a hell of alot more. 99% of their navy is 2-3 generations behind that of the western powers.

 

[cHodAX]

In that case, America is the only Super-Power? - I completely disagree, the power China has around the world is scary, economically, and military.

Imagine if they suddenly said LOL, let's stop trading with the rest of the world, Countries would melt, businesses would die out in their thousands, and they'd stay strong, they will be damaged by it, yes, but no-where as much as the West would.

No mate, that is what people don't realise, it is the complete opposite. China would melt in a matter of a year or less. The west still produces vast quantities of quality goods and plenty of food to feed it's population. China? Imports staggering amounts and offsets that by selling literally mountains of cheap electronics goods to us. If we don't sell food, minerals and oil to China they are fucked right up the pooper. If we don't buy their electronics they are fucked right in the pooper. They have close to 2 billion people to feed

The west would actually grow stronger within a year, investment into their own industries would return and reliance on cheap Chinese electronics would be broken very quickly with the rest of south-east asia and India stepping in to fill the gap.

 

[Mabs]

it would be like rationing during the war, we would end up with what we need, not what we want, but it wouldnt kill us

 

[cHodAX]

it would be like rationing during the war, we would end up with what we need, not what we want, but it wouldnt kill us

Indeed, it would actually make us stronger. Renewal of industry that we shipped overseas, when it made economic sense to do so.

 

[Zarjazz]

Just realised if we stopped all trade with China, both Apple and Foxconn would be screwed. So, how do we get this started then ... ?

 

[cHodAX]

I wish Samsung would cut Apple off, the stock would go into freefall. It amazes me that Samsung haven't really hit back already.

 

[DaGaffer]

Right then, since they're like one of the couple of super-powers on the planet, why have they bought a Soviet one from the Ukraine? - Are they recycling or something?

This confuses me since they surely have the resources to make their own huge ones to dwarf Americas?

Its a training ship. They've bought it to test out the mechanics of setting up carrier operations. Having a carrier fleet (especially a full fat version not STOVL carriers) requires a whole bunch of new disciplines because once you have carriers your whole fleet organisation is geared towards carrier protection. There's literally no point in the Chinese simply building a few carriers, sticking planes on them and setting sail, so they'll play carrier ops with this Ukrainian piece of junk until they're ready to go it alone.

 

[cHodAX]

It's hardly a peice of junk mate. The refit has been extensive, it will allow them to develop a carrier doctrine whilst training a vast number of crews for future carriers. Oh and it would still be an effective fighting machine if they had the crew and aircraft to man it properly. For now they don't, in 5 years they will.

 

[soze]

I wish Samsung would cut Apple off, the stock would go into freefall. It amazes me that Samsung haven't really hit back already.

Since the 4S Apple have been moving away from Samsung the Screens and a lot of internal components moved to LG I believe. Plus Samsung are not stupid they either get a share of the 50 million phones that will be sold or let someone else have it.

And on topic I cant wait to see the Nimetzz class carrier they come up with you know the one that look identical and has LED's all over it

 

[cHodAX]

Since the 4S Apple have been moving away from Samsung the Screens and a lot of internal components moved to LG I believe. Plus Samsung are not stupid they either get a share of the 50 million phones that will be sold or let someone else have it.

And on topic I cant wait to see the Nimetzz class carrier they come up with you know the one that look identical and has LED's all over it

Memory and CPU, basically the core of every iPad, iPhone and iPod. Yes they could be made elsewhere but it would put a 6 month dent in Apple that they would not recover from as far as phones and tablets go.

 

[Deebs]

soze, cHodAX - keep it on topic

 

[cHodAX]

soze, cHodAX - keep it on topic

But this is Off-Top.... oh wait.

 

[soze]

This is like when you hear the company director say your name

 

[Chosen]

Only superpower when it comes to military is USA.

The russian military is still to much outdated, even though they are now putting more money into upgrading their equipment! Just remember how many tanks that stopped on the march towards Georgia(Because of engine troubles), it was about 500 of them in total.

 

[DaGaffer]

It's hardly a peice of junk mate. The refit has been extensive, it will allow them to develop a carrier doctrine whilst training a vast number of crews for future carriers. Oh and it would still be an effective fighting machine if they had the crew and aircraft to man it properly. For now they don't, in 5 years they will.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/201...utm_medium=RelatedLinks&utm_campaign=Previous

 

[old.Tohtori]

This is like when you hear the company director say your name

You get used to it

ONtopic though, this is one step closer to the lovely wasteland future i'm waiting for. US should annex canada already though.

 

[Gwadien]

You get used to it

ONtopic though, this is one step closer to the lovely wasteland future i'm waiting for. US should annex canada already though.

Germany should annex France, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Greece, Belgium and Holland.

 

[Job]

The Chinese carrier would last 15 seconds in a modern war, it's just a stepping stone, but they have a LONG, LONG way to go before they can match the US.
The French and the Russians have one, the US has 11 full carrier battle groups, the US carriers are by far the best in the world, their sea power is unmatchable by the rest of the world put together.

 

[cHodAX]

Only superpower when it comes to military is USA.

The russian military is still to much outdated, even though they are now putting more money into upgrading their equipment! Just remember how many tanks that stopped on the march towards Georgia(Because of engine troubles), it was about 500 of them in total.

Nice post and yes you make good points, since Georgia though much of that equipment has been refitted as part of a military-wide upgrade program. The equipment itself when working is still highly effective if not technologically advanced and the one big advantage USSR/Russia had is there sheer number of tank hulls they have in service but also available to quickly put back into service.

Since the end of the cold war NATO has massively thinned out it's heavy armour reserves in central Europe thinking that the threat from the east is gone but many of those T6x, T7x and T8x tanks are still around or mothballed. Looking at wiki (so the figures may not be accurate) they have nearly 49,000 main battle tanks of which roughly 15,000 remain in service which is a huge number in itself, then count in all the other armour/artillery. Their ground forces are still scary. The airforce is being modernised nicely, the navy still needs alot of work though. All that and nukes makes them a superpower, yes they are carrier light but I expect an oil/gas rich Russia to put that right before too long.

 

[cHodAX]

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/201...utm_medium=RelatedLinks&utm_campaign=Previous

Wired.com haha superior journalism. There is nothing in that peice to indicate why they would actually call it 'junk'. The truth is that it will be a moderately powerful carrier, nothing close to the flat tops but then no one else other than the Yanks is running or building those anymore because the costs are monumental and the expertise required takes decades to perfect. China have gone about this in the absolutely perfect way, buy a relatively young type of carrier and refit it to develop a carrier doctrine for their navy. It hasn't broke the bank, infact it has left plenty of money for them to keep working on the submarine fleet.

 

[Embattle]

Right then, since they're like one of the couple of super-powers on the planet, why have they bought a Soviet one from the Ukraine? - Are they recycling or something?

This confuses me since they surely have the resources to make their own huge ones to dwarf Americas?

They are making there own, they wanted the soviet one to learn the operational side etc.

 

[mr.Blacky]

All that and nukes makes them a superpower, yes they are carrier light but I expect an oil/gas rich Russia to put that right before too long.

They are a superpower in most people's books but I would not expect them to develop a carrier fleet.
It would rather be pointless, most of their trading is over land not sea, so a more reasonable thing for them to develop is the ability to oppose other countries control of the sea, best way subs.
Carriers give a nation a stronger way to control the sea, subs are better to oppose that.

But dont forget both Russia and China are in favour of the status quo in the world.
That is the main reason behind their support of Assad in the ME.

 

[cHodAX]

They are a superpower in most people's books but I would not expect them to develop a carrier fleet.
It would rather be pointless, most of their trading is over land not sea, so a more reasonable thing for them to develop is the ability to oppose other countries control of the sea, best way subs.
Carriers give a nation a stronger way to control the sea, subs are better to oppose that.

But dont forget both Russia and China are in favour of the status quo in the world.
That is the main reason behind their support of Assad in the ME.

Which is why they have moved their only carrier to the med and are looking to base it from the port they now own in Syria. That carrier sends a signal but also gives them a very fast reaction potential should their interests be endangered. One carrier isn't enough, they know it but there is alot of infrastructure to rebuild before they can have more and so they have focused on refitting the ground and air forces to start because as you said that is their main priority.

 

[Gwadien]

But dont forget both Russia and China are in favour of the status quo in the world.
That is the main reason behind their support of Assad in the ME.

Status Quo? - Bollocks tbh.

Money runs the world, if the Rebels turned around and said, (Which they never will) We will buy all the weapons going to Assad, I'm sure their tune will change as it puts their self in lesser danger with the west.