Question change of beliefs

tris-

Failed Geordie and Parmothief
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for the most part ive always believed in a predetermined future and ive been fond of karma. it is always nice to do good things, but the more good things done seem to lead to more coming back to me.

being a bit introspective one night, i came to the conclusion that both of these beliefs can simply amount to a self fulfilling prophecy. it is quite a strange feeling for your beliefs about the world to change, and rather liberating. thats not to say ill stop being kind, but i certainly dont think there is a karma based force that impacts peoples lives. and i certainly think that being proactive rather than simply thinking ' thats just how it is', will be a lot more beneficial.

anyone else experienced this sort of thing?
 

fettoken

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I have to agree with you. I have stopped acting a certain way just because i hoped to get some good karma my direction. Instant pleasure over karma, because karma doesn't exist. It doesn't necessarily mean i take it to extremes.
 

Ingafgrinn Macabre

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I'm not a religious man, but I do live by luke 6:31 (Do to others as you would have them do to you) which essentially just says to treat everyone just as you'd like to be treated. I don't necessarily believe in Karma like that if you continuously help others, that one day you'll win the jackpot or something, because simply there are too many people that die in natural events that are good people so don't deserve it for the world, but it is a given that if you treat others badly, they'll eventually start to treat you badly aswell, so it does pay off to just be nice. Don't overdo it though, because then you'll get taken advantage of.
 

cHodAX

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for the most part ive always believed in a predetermined future and ive been fond of karma. it is always nice to do good things, but the more good things done seem to lead to more coming back to me.

being a bit introspective one night, i came to the conclusion that both of these beliefs can simply amount to a self fulfilling prophecy. it is quite a strange feeling for your beliefs about the world to change, and rather liberating. thats not to say ill stop being kind, but i certainly dont think there is a karma based force that impacts peoples lives. and i certainly think that being proactive rather than simply thinking ' thats just how it is', will be a lot more beneficial.

anyone else experienced this sort of thing?

I ate a parmo once, it was kind of like that.
 

Ezteq

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Yeah; I was raised to believe whatever my mother believed because she was 'always right' anyway so the belief was quite vague but it was that there was a god and a heaven and angels and stuff like that.

Anyway when I actually developed my own mind I realised that no I didn't believe that at all, I don't believe in any god, nice idea but I don't believe it. The truth is I don't know and tbh I don't care all that much either lol.

The way I see it is even if there is a 'god' I doubt very much it cares what we think of it (B2 says its only his faith that stops him from being a right bastard and robbing and killing his way to the top, I say its because I want to be able to live with myself that I don't act like that) and if there was actual evidence and stuff of its extistence I still wouldn't 'believe' in it, I think I'd still be a bit kind of so what about it I mean as Terry Pratchett said I know the postman is real but I don't run about believing in him do I?

And that is my belief, I don't know and I'm not really interested and I'll either find out when I die or I wont, and I formulated it in my own mind without being influenced by the beliefs of another (B2 is catholic lol so if I wanted to butter him up I'm definately going the wrong way about it) and yes it felt very liberating to actually know, once and for all what I believe.
 

old.Tohtori

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Treating people wrong won't come back at you except if it happens out of revenge.
Treating people nice will get a flash-reward(same as revenge), but people will still treat you like sh*t, if so inclined, and bad things will still happen.

If karma existed, i'd be waving a 6 foot dong over a couple of hundred buckets of gold and billions of dollars in my huge mansion filled with skimpy clothed models.

Not to say i'll start acting like a dick and kick old ladies and babies...but i'll do it just because like everyone else, i'm hoping someone will have sex with me because of it :p

Aka, being nice is selfish, no exceptions.
 

fettoken

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I want to kick babies and old ladies, thus i kick karma in the face.
 

aika

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lolololololololollololol

Whats so funny, ask yourself why people are nice. Look deep and you will understand that they are nice so they can feel good with themselves, get other people to like them more or think better of them. All of those are selfish reasons, which is ok since altruism is not native in nature.
 

Calaen

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Whats so funny, ask yourself why people are nice. Look deep and you will understand that they are nice so they can feel good with themselves, get other people to like them more or think better of them. All of those are selfish reasons, which is ok since altruism is not native in nature.

I am not nice to make me feel good, or make someone else feel good. If I see someone in trouble I'll help them out, not because I want a reward, or praise or thanks. I will do it because it's the right thing to do not because I want anything back from anyone or myself.
 

aika

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I am not nice to make me feel good, or make someone else feel good. If I see someone in trouble I'll help them out, not because I want a reward, or praise or thanks. I will do it because it's the right thing to do not because I want anything back from anyone or myself.

why is it the right thing to do? Why you wanna do it? How will you feel if you dont help this person in said situation?
 

Calaen

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why is it the right thing to do? Why you wanna do it? How will you feel if you dont help this person in said situation?

Because I was brought up to be respectful of others, I don't want to do it, I choose to do it. I could not tell you how I would feel because I have never walked away from someone that I felt needed my help.
 

Ezteq

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Because I was brought up to be respectful of others, I don't want to do it, I choose to do it. I could not tell you how I would feel because I have never walked away from someone that I felt needed my help.

lol I hate that, I hate it, and I can't bloody help myself someone says/does something to demonstrate they are in difficulty and there it goes...I can feel my gob opening and the words "can I help at all?" just pouring out like piddle from a terrified octogenarian; unstoppable and you wish like hell you could put it back.

Helping people occasionally makes me feel good about myself but usually I do it with a dark heart and a mutter upon my lips!!...

and aw fuck I've just missed the flintstones, well shit!
 

fl3a

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Whats so funny, ask yourself why people are nice. Look deep and you will understand that they are nice so they can feel good with themselves, get other people to like them more or think better of them. All of those are selfish reasons, which is ok since altruism is not native in nature.

indeed. 'do onto others as you would have done to you' is a prime example of ethical norms being based on YOU and not the action itself, or the subjects of that action. you act nice because you want other people to act nice towards you, thus making your life better. doing good deeds because you hope they will repay with the same sometime in the future is imo a lesser form of moral goodness. the greater form would be doing good and being nice out of a sense that other people will enjoy it. seeing it as my duty to help people in need and not fuck others over is what i strive towards. and if it is your duty you dont expect compensation or thanks. you just hope to do your best.

karma as understood by most of the western world today (good deeds repay with good, bad deeds with bad) is a form of watered down ethical norms to make people think twice when they are fucking someone over. in order to find a stable norm of acting in any situation you have to reflect on your previous deeds, what you feel was good and bad about them, and also take into consideration the consequences (if they are important to you). and each person has to do that themselves. a tailored suit sits much better than a suit off the rack at a store. its the same with philosophies of living.
 

Raven

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I am nice to people, not because I want a reward or that it makes me feel any better about myself. Its just easier than being a cock.
I don't go out of my way and look for situations where I can help people because I can't be arsed.
 

Marc

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Yeaaaaaaars ago, most british people had a sense of duty, to help others without wanting anything in return.

Now a days, people couldnt care less about others

Society is in a mess.
 

Dark Orb Choir

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i care about you marc, /me rings hookers to smother chocolate over marcs dangly bits and lick it off............
 

Ezteq

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Yeaaaaaaars ago, most british people had a sense of duty, to help others without wanting anything in return.

Now a days, people couldnt care less about others

Society is in a mess.

well, you say that but look at all the decient people here, whether they want to be or not lol! Possible exception of dar orb in light of his last post...
 

Chronictank

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*shrug* I am with Inga, treat people like you want to be treated by others

If you act like a turd you will be treated like one in return

Although if someone is obviously in trouble and it is within your power to help them I personally can't see why someone wouldn't
The lack of empathy from some members of this forum is pretty strange to me personally
 

CorNokZ

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I'm usually only nice to people because it's easier than being a jackass in the long run

Also because it makes me feel better about myself
 

Dark Orb Choir

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its nice to be nice as they say, but sometimes everyone is a see you next tuesday.........


like its been said in another post - stress kills, theres no point getting wound up and ranting at people, was on a conf call yesterday and our big boss took 2 minutes to talk about it in the light of 2 people in my department dying from stress related illnesses in the last few weeks.......


i care, i hug trees, i try and be nice and live my life in a christian way in the face of the fucked up place we live in at the moment, i have my rants at the world and can sometimes come acrosss as a jaded dickhead, but on the whole i _try_ and if you cant try then whats the point..
 

Thorwyn

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I partially agree that being nice to other people is - at least to some extend - selfish because of the mentioned reasons (categorical imperative etc.).

BUT... when you think about it... isn´t that true for basically all forms of behaviour? What I mean is: is there any form of human behaviour that does NOT contain at least a small ammount of selfishness?
If you decide to be a complete twat, you will - at least subconciously - enjoy your bad-boy image, the power you got over other people and the fact that they might not like you. Isn´t that selfish?
If you´re a nihilistic person and don´t care about the rest of the world let alone other people, you will act accordingly with the intention of being left alone and not being bothered with all the crap that you don´t care about anyways. Isn´t that selfish?
In short: I think that EVERY behaviour is the reflection (or trigger) of the expected response, be it good, bad or neutral.
 

old.Tohtori

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lolololololololollololol

Glad you can't discuss things still, begone troll :twak:

Even if you do things because you'd feel like crap if you didn't, still a selfish act.

It's a simple fact, that's what makes it non-lololol. There are no non-selfish acts because of human nature alone, BUT i'm open to hearing any example where that doesn't ring true.
 

Ezteq

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... I don't use the bible quote because my reasons for acting in this way aren't at all related to the bible.

I don't either but I see it more like the monkeys/typewriters thing I mean there's so much written in it that amid all that other stuff something has to be right.
 

mooSe_

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oops I meant to edit my post but I deleted it :S dunno how I managed that

I don't either but I see it more like the monkeys/typewriters thing I mean there's so much written in it that amid all that other stuff something has to be right.

but that kind of moral message was around before the bible was even written, so I don't like to give christianity all the credit:p
 

Calaen

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Glad you can't discuss things still, begone troll :twak:

Even if you do things because you'd feel like crap if you didn't, still a selfish act.

It's a simple fact, that's what makes it non-lololol. There are no non-selfish acts because of human nature alone, BUT i'm open to hearing any example where that doesn't ring true.


If you read what I said other than lololololol you will see I don't know what it feels like to not help someone I thought needed it, because I have never done it.

I don't do anything for anyone else to get anything back, or make myself feel good. Why should I feel good about helping someone when I believe it's the right thing to do? I don't hold a door open for someone then congratulate myself, no do I care if someone does not hold the door open for me.
 

mooSe_

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If I don't do things like hold the door open for people then I feel bad about it, so I think partly I do these things so that I don't feel guilty, and also partly so that people think I am a nice person.
 

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