C4 Gun advert

ECA

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Mindguns Wtf Somebody Think Of The Children.
 

Edmond

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Shit......thats hard hitting
 

Raven

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No it isn't, though I imagine it helps keep some brown jacket types in back slaps for a while.
 

Damini

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I think that advert is really well done. Perhaps I'd have omitted the kid at the beginning and the end, as I don't really think it needed it, but other than that I think it hits the mark.
 

throdgrain

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Far more sensible attitude to gun ownership if you ask me.

That advert is very emotive, but thats not really how life is, is it? As Tom says, WE NEED MORE LAWS!!! (I would have repped you for that but it says I cant :) )

Thing is guys we've already made guns illegal, what's this goverment going to do now, make them illegal again? Who are the people who suffer in such circumstances? Only responsible gun owners. Criminals couldnt care less.

When guns are outlawed, only outlaws have guns.
 

DaGaffer

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Got to say, despite my previously stated criticism of unfettered gun ownership, I'm struggling to see the point of this ad. In the UK's case, the guns are only a symptom of the rise in crime, not the cause (you only have to look at the parallel rise in knife crime to see that). As others have said, we've already banned guns. Also the 9650 figure is a bit disengenous, it implies that's the number of deaths/injuries from guns, when the actual number is waaay lower (about 50 killed, more people are killed by their kichen appliances). And no Throd, the answer isn't for the rest of us to get tooled up; the accident rate alone in the US is far higher than all the deaths from illegal guns in the UK.

What we need to do is start to understand what it is that's dehumanising these kids so much that they make no connection between pulling the trigger/sticking the knife in, and the human being on the receiving end; why they think they can get away with it, or even scarier, why they don't care.
 

throdgrain

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I agree with what you say Dagaffer, but the acident rate is higher because there's more people in the states than here, 10 times more, as I'm always saying :)

As far as accidents in this country go, they still happen, they're accidents, so they do. There was one just the other day - a bloke shot himself after driving a quad bike with a loaded shotgun. Dunno the ins and outs of course, but it was an accident.
 

Chilly

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We dont need guns for anything, except leisure which can and is properly regulated. It's an arms race on the streets now for these gang types I suppose. When crew x has guns crew y has to get them or get blown away. And we all know how that ends up (hello LA).
 

DaGaffer

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I agree with what you say Dagaffer, but the acident rate is higher because there's more people in the states than here, 10 times more, as I'm always saying :)

As far as accidents in this country go, they still happen, they're accidents, so they do. There was one just the other day - a bloke shot himself after driving a quad bike with a loaded shotgun. Dunno the ins and outs of course, but it was an accident.

I factored that in and the accident rate per capita is still way higher; 700 deaths from hunting accidents alone in 2004 v 50 gun-related deaths (all causes) in the UK (2005) = 14:1. Population ratio = 5:1. The total gun death rate is per capita is 26 times higher in the US than the UK.

On the other hand, despite all the hysteria, there's not much to indicate gun deaths are actually on the rise in England and Wales; at least not according to the Home Office's own figures:

1999/00 62
2000/01 73
2001/02 97
2002/03 81
2003/04 68
2004/05 78
2005/06 50
2006/07 59
 

Scouse

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I'm struggling to see the point of this ad.

Quite simple really. Spread the fear.

Glad I don't live in the cities tbfh

Job done!


What we need to do is start to understand what it is that's dehumanising these kids so much that they make no connection between pulling the trigger/sticking the knife in, and the human being on the receiving end; why they think they can get away with it, or even scarier, why they don't care.

If you're looking for the root cause of all these problems: Capitalism.
 

dysfunction

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I factored that in and the accident rate per capita is still way higher; 700 deaths from hunting accidents alone in 2004 v 50 gun-related deaths (all causes) in the UK (2005) = 14:1. Population ratio = 5:1. The total gun death rate is per capita is 26 times higher in the US than the UK.

On the other hand, despite all the hysteria, there's not much to indicate gun deaths are actually on the rise in England and Wales; at least not according to the Home Office's own figures:

1999/00 62
2000/01 73
2001/02 97
2002/03 81
2003/04 68
2004/05 78
2005/06 50
2006/07 59

I don't think you can work your ratios out that way...its a bit more complicated than that....for instance have you taken into account how often people use their guns in the UK compared to the US?
 

Chilly

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yeah but the thing with capitalism is that its so fucking useful. its like a magic thing that just makes everything work efficiently.
 

DaGaffer

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I don't think you can work your ratios out that way...its a bit more complicated than that....for instance have you taken into account how often people use their guns in the UK compared to the US?

It hardly matters; the figures show making guns difficult to get hold of makes an absolute difference to the number of people getting shot and killed by orders of magnitude. Showing the difference between the hunting accident death rate in the US and the total death rate in the UK was just to show that even if guns were only used for 'legitimate' uses in the States, the absolute per capita death rate would still be higher than here (you're right that Americans have more opportunities to hunt, therefore more opportunities to get shot, but as I haven't compared the UK hunting accident figs to US ones - no data - then I still have the sneaking suspicion that a US hunter would have to be out in the woods a LOT more often than their UK counterpart to account for all of the difference, after all what do you reckon the hunting related deaths in the UK are out of that 50? One? Two?).

However, irrespective of that, the simple fact is that per head of population, you're 26 times more likely to die by the gun in the US than you are here, and all the arguments in the world about usage patterns don't alter that.
 

Scouse

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yeah but the thing with capitalism is that its so fucking useful. its like a magic thing that just makes everything work efficiently.

Yep. It's just "magic" isn't it. As long as you only think about concentrating 95% of the world's wealth in 5% of the population and don't give a fuck about any of the multitude of total fuckups that are intrinsically linked with this piece-of-shit system then it's sound as a pound.

:eek:
 

nath

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Yep. It's just "magic" isn't it. As long as you only think about concentrating 95% of the world's wealth in 5% of the population and don't give a fuck about any of the multitude of total fuckups that are intrinsically linked with this piece-of-shit system then it's sound as a pound.

:eek:
Just playing devils advocate here, but have you got a better system?
 

Scouse

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Just playing devils advocate here, but have you got a better system?

Personally? No.

But I'd counter with - are we actually looking for one? Apart from the proutist research centre in Venesuela I can't think offhand of any research into non-capitalist political reform - despite any rational weighing up of the evidence pointing to this being a fundamental priority.

However, the people who make these decisions make up the 5% - so why the fuck would they change it?
 

DaGaffer

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If you're looking for the root cause of all these problems: Capitalism.

Capitalism's been around for rather a long time and is fairly common in lots of countries, so why here, and why now?

I don't pretend to know the answer, and I'm sure social inequality accounts for part of the problem, but its more than that; social inequality has been around for rather a long time as well (always, in fact). I do think a big part of it is caused by the removal of social structures that weren't perfect, but actually worked for a long time; the whole "respect for adults because they might give you a clip around the ear, and there was no point complaining to your parents because you'd get worse" philosophy, had a lot going for it. I find it quite depressing that the whole focus of society these days is about people's "rights" but there's no counter-balancing argument that rights also come with responsibilities.
 

Mabs

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good advert tbh

problem with this sort of thing tho is, like the knives, and the automatic weapons, etc is ;

you have one for a legal purpose, law comes in, you hand it in "huge success"
your the sort of person who is going to kill someone because you can, do you really thing you give a flying fuck about the law in the first instance ?

reducing legally held weaponry is pointless, is the other ones you need to worry about , and this wont change that :(
 

Overdriven

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Good ad actually, I think they should play the whole thing on TV (on BBC) with collaboration with C4 in the middle of the Euro finals.

Glad I left East London when I did tbh. Granted, moving to Sutton wasn't much of an improvement.
 

Cadelin

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These gun law arguments seem to always go the same way and in general completely miss the point.

Making hand guns illegal doesn't stop harden criminal gangs. There are very few of these and they don't go around killing normal people.

The dangerous people are the drug addicts, people with mental health issues and even people who just easily lose their temper (especially if drunk). These people in general won't be able to get hold of a gun if they are illegal and so they won't be able to use it when they aren't in a stable frame of mind.

The only safe system is where guns are in general illegal and if you want to own one legally you have to prove that you are a sane responsible individual. If you have a law which entitles everybody in general to have a gun, it means you are allowing unstable people to easily access guns and they are the ones that will use them to kill
 

throdgrain

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I factored that in and the accident rate per capita is still way higher; 700 deaths from hunting accidents alone in 2004 v 50 gun-related deaths (all causes) in the UK (2005) = 14:1. Population ratio = 5:1. The total gun death rate is per capita is 26 times higher in the US than the UK.

On the other hand, despite all the hysteria, there's not much to indicate gun deaths are actually on the rise in England and Wales; at least not according to the Home Office's own figures:

1999/00 62
2000/01 73
2001/02 97
2002/03 81
2003/04 68
2004/05 78
2005/06 50
2006/07 59


I appreciate the effort you put into that post mate, but christ


WHAT A LOAD OF BOLLOCKS !


Sorry, but gawd ....
 

throdgrain

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These gun law arguments seem to always go the same way and in general completely miss the point.

Making hand guns illegal doesn't stop harden criminal gangs. There are very few of these and they don't go around killing normal people.

The dangerous people are the drug addicts, people with mental health issues and even people who just easily lose their temper (especially if drunk). These people in general won't be able to get hold of a gun if they are illegal and so they won't be able to use it when they aren't in a stable frame of mind.

The only safe system is where guns are in general illegal and if you want to own one legally you have to prove that you are a sane responsible individual. If you have a law which entitles everybody in general to have a gun, it means you are allowing unstable people to easily access guns and they are the ones that will use them to kill



Which is pretty much the system we used to have ...
 

Scouse

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Capitalism's been around for rather a long time ........so why here, and why now?

In its current form it's in its infancy, technically speaking. But economists, philosophers and social historians have been forecasting our current predicaments and more, far into the future.

So the question isn't even a why - "we" (the people) already know the answer to that question. The question should be what are we going to do about it?.

I'll answer that one too: FUCK ALL.

Gun crime, poverty, social inequality, an elderly population (which we'll all be one day) who live in squalor and aren't cared for, a wider population who don't even percieve that their day to day lives are actually a form of slavery, all wrapped up in "worse to come" paper garnished with a "probably deserve it" bow.

Like Tom said - the population will jump at "MORE LAWS!!!11" - without realising that the rule of law has serious limitations and is incapable of dealing with systemic failure - which is the cause of the majority of our current social ills.
 

DaGaffer

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I appreciate the effort you put into that post mate, but christ


WHAT A LOAD OF BOLLOCKS !


Sorry, but gawd ....

Because there's a single fact wrong, or because you don't agree with it? Because there's nowt wrong with the numbers...
 

Scouse

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Good ad actually, I think they should play the whole thing on TV (on BBC) with collaboration with C4 in the middle of the Euro finals.

NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's just the sort of thinking that had a UEFA Cup match in Hampden Park show a 10 minute film on fucking Madeline McCann at half time!

:twak:

Give the people a fucking break! Don't you think we get enough bad news through the multitude of media already? Why fucking ram it down people's throats when they're trying to have a good time watching football?

It's the same as the "don't drink too much" beer mats they've got in my pub. I WANT TO GO OUT WITHOUT RECIEVING GOVERNMENT MESSAGES EVERY FIVE MINUTES FFS!

/rant

/looks about for a gun
 

throdgrain

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Because there's a single fact wrong, or because you don't agree with it? Because there's nowt wrong with the numbers...

Well for a start there's 600 million people in the USA and about 60 million here. Then you have to question where you got the statistics from in the first place and then lots more people shoot there anyway, and well, its just a load of balls isnt it? You dont know anything about it really, just regurgitated information from various dodgy sources. And neither do I.

Yes there's accidents in the U.S, and so there is here too. The rest of it is bollocks.
 

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