Sport Bye bye f1

[Ch3tan]

BBC SPORT | Motorsport | Formula 1 | F1 teams to set up rival series

Mosley was insistent on introducing a voluntary $60m budget cap for teams to curtail a "financial arms race" in F1.
But Fota refused to agree to his conditions, prompting championship leader Brawn GP, Ferrari, McLaren, Renault, Toyota, BMW Sauber, Red Bull Racing and Toro Rosso to take their drastic decision.
Only Williams and Force India have agreed to take part in the current F1 championship next year.

 

[ECA]

Holy shit.

 

[Ch3tan]

Yeah did not think they would actually do it.

Got be shit for bbc, they get one season of quality f1, and some random new teams next season

 

[ECA]

I really didn't think it would come to this.

This happened in the US as well with various splits and left their single seater formulas kinda lacking ( non major fanbases ).

I really hope the teams have taken this into consideration because they will not be Formula 1.

If the new splitoff formula has no budget caps then there will be only the current FOTA teams and it will be boring as shit.


EDIT: also lots of track usage considerations... will monaco shutdown for TWO different weekends? Which formula will get it?

 

[Zenith.UK]

I wrote on 12/05/2009 on another forum about the suggestion of teams breaking away and making a new motor racing franchise. I expected SOMETHING to happen, but I didn't expect all the major teams to be behind it.

I personally think the personalities of Max Mosley and Bernie Ecclestone might have grated once too often for the teams and they've just gone "Fuck you, we've had enough".

I say... BRING IT ON!

 

[Ctuchik]

lol, this looks just like how my 6 year old niece react when she risks losing a board game. she rush off to get another one and make up her own rules so she can win again...


fucking patheting is what this is....

so they wanted to help bring in more small teams and the big ones start to cry??

 

[Kryten]

Actually it's far from it.
Let's put it in a situation involving your niece.

She's been living in restriction, being told off for things she didn't do wrong, being praised for things she has done wrong. She's getting slapped around, beaten up. She calls childline.

That, metaphorically, is closer to the F1 situation than your analogy

It's a very good thing. Rumours are abound they are taking Monaco. Oh, and Silverstone. They have the financial clout, the big brains - they have more say in it than Max and Bernie ever could. This could be very, very big. Effectively, they are taking F1 and doing with it what should've been done years ago. It'll be more of a re-brand than a split series.

As far as TV rights etc go, will be interesting to see. I think it's great, as a die hard F1 fan.

 

[Ctuchik]

all this really depends on who's gonna make the new rules tho. if the car manufacturers from the old F1 show will have any say in things, then i have small hopes for any smaller teams to be able to make it better there then they do (did?) in the F1 show.

gonna have to wait and see i guess.

 

[`mongoose]

I'm not much of an F1 fan tbh. It used to be awesome with overtaking and stuff. Recently it's turned into a tactical thing which whilst fascinating in a different way doesn't grip me the way it used to do.

I think it was time someone took on Ecclestone and mosely. These two fuckards are arseholes of the highest order and should be ran out of sport.

They'll probably be replaced by another arseholes but c'est la vie I guess.

I hope the new series does well. More than anything else this is fantastic news for silverstone who were being pushed out of F1. That more than anything else is what makes me happy.

M

 

[DaGaffer]

I'm not much of an F1 fan tbh. It used to be awesome with overtaking and stuff. Recently it's turned into a tactical thing which whilst fascinating in a different way doesn't grip me the way it used to do.

I think it was time someone took on Ecclestone and mosely. These two fuckards are arseholes of the highest order and should be ran out of sport.

They'll probably be replaced by another arseholes but c'est la vie I guess.

I hope the new series does well. More than anything else this is fantastic news for silverstone who were being pushed out of F1. That more than anything else is what makes me happy.

M

Agree with all of that except for the Silverstone bit; its a fucking terrible circuit and always has been. The move to Donington was a good idea.

I still don't think we'll end up with two separate series next year; there are too many vested interests and the loss of Ferrari in particular is a disaster for the FIA's TV deals, it would be like the CL losing Man U, Real, Barca and Liverpool all in one; 80% of the audience outside the UK don't give a fuck about anyone but Ferrari. To get to a compromise Mosley will have to go though.

 

[Lethul]

Why o why would Ferrari want Brawn in the new series?

 

[Zenith.UK]

So they can copy/steal technical innovation from them?

 

[Dark Orb Choir]

i do not think anyone will miss the cross dressing nazi

 

[Tom]

Slightly sad but unsurprising. Unfortunately there are a few people I know who have twitching arseholes right now wrt job security...

 

[Jaberwocky]

They've done this before a few years back, even installed a new chair man for the new motor body, the F1 big wigs made a few concessions and they all fell back in line.

This might or might not go ahead, but it's nothing new and really just reflects the business tactics and power games that are as much a part of F1 as the racing and technical innovations.

 

[Chilly]

poor beeb. I wonder if they can get some of their money back if the split does go ahead.

 

[Ch3tan]

Reading views on this today, it seems that many agree that it is just a final ultimatum to f1; Mosley goes and you listen to us, or this becomes a reality.

 

[ECA]

I think most people who think this is a good thing are smokin da crack.
Sponsors/etc are signed up to multi-year deals.
A lot of these teams are contractually obliged to enter F1 ( Ferrari until 2012 iirc? ).
They are going to get smashed by a lot of lawsuits.


mongoose/dagaff - you two are complaining about the very things the FIA are trying to fix, the new series is going to be exactly what you dont like.

A small number of teams spending a lot of money and it being processionville. ( think THAT american grand prix ).

 

[DaGaffer]

mongoose/dagaff - you two are complaining about the very things the FIA are trying to fix, the new series is going to be exactly what you dont like.

Bollocks. The spending cap has nothing to do with making F1 racer closer and everything to do with FOTA's attempts to prise a larger share of the gross revenues out of Bernie's backers CVC. The FIA have never "fixed" anything.

This is nothing new; I've been going to F1 for (gulp) 30 years now and this is just like the FISA/FOCA wars back in the 80s, when Bernie and Max were the ones doing the breakaway threats. Plus ça change...

 

[ECA]

Bollocks. The spending cap has nothing to do with making F1 racer closer and everything to do with FOTA's attempts to prise a larger share of the gross revenues out of Bernie's backers CVC. The FIA have never "fixed" anything.

This is nothing new; I've been going to F1 for (gulp) 30 years now and this is just like the FISA/FOCA wars back in the 80s, when Bernie and Max were the ones doing the breakaway threats. Plus ça change...

If what you say is the case then surely fota would be in favour of the cap rather than against it?

 

[DaGaffer]

If what you say is the case then surely fota would be in favour of the cap rather than against it?

No because the FIA's attitude is "if you spend less you don't need more from us". FOTA's attitude is "why does Bernie's mob get half a billion dollars a year and we get the leavings?" If the FIA were to give up a full 50% (or more) of their gross, that would work out at about $50M per team, well above the budget cap.

The manufacturer teams are already subsidising the smaller teams, and you only have to look at the likes of Red Bull and Brawn to see that the model is working (both outperforming their engine suppliers), and its telling to see the likes of Brawn going with FOTA despite their not having infinite budgets.

 

[Raven]

Its not been racing for years, just a great big expensive engineering competition so who cares?

 

[Tom]

Bikes are better tbh. More competitive, more dangerous, better racing, friendlier sport, no hideous charge to get into the paddocks, reasonable ticket prices.

I just spent two weeks doing the IoM TT, and those guys are heroes, albeit slightly mental heroes.

 

[ECA]

Bikes are better tbh. More competitive, more dangerous, better racing, friendlier sport, no hideous charge to get into the paddocks, reasonable ticket prices.

I just spent two weeks doing the IoM TT, and those guys are heroes, albeit slightly mental heroes.

I agree, MotoGP is much more entertaining to watch.
Overtaking by the bucketloads.

That said I still am drawn to watch F1 for some reason. I can't explain.

 

[cHodAX]

Bikes are better tbh. More competitive, more dangerous, better racing, friendlier sport, no hideous charge to get into the paddocks, reasonable ticket prices.

I just spent two weeks doing the IoM TT, and those guys are heroes, albeit slightly mental heroes.

Have to agree, MotoGP is fuckloads more exciting as well. Rossi was immense at the weekend and winning the race on the last corner was epic.

YouTube - Rossi vs Lorenzo last lap high quality

Very very sad if F1 splits though

 

[Kryten]

FIA are now saying they will sue all people involved in this. As far as contracts are concerned with teams/drivers/sponsors - they are pretty much dissolvable without any thought. If the FIA are sure FOTA are breaking the law doing this, they should look at their own actions - there are just as many laws, moral and civil they are breaking.

As for the Silverstone comments: how can you really say that? No drivers or teams want it to go. Very few fans actually want Donnington to host it - it's a good track but not fit for purpose.

Makes you think though - if Ferrari go along with the rest of FOTA, Monaco goes with it. There's some impressive tracks that will go over to the new series.
Monaco. Silverstone. Monza. Indy. Fuji. Hell of a lot more.

F1 without monaco AND ferrari? Won't happen.

 

[Ch3tan]

Mosley:
However, Mosley told the BBC that he was confident there would be one Formula 1 world championship next season.
"We had to take legal proceedings. That's all part of the process, but the moment they come to their senses that will all stop," he said.
"This is posturing and posing and it will stop before the start of 2010 and the first race of next season in Melbourne and settle down.
"They can't get the backing they need and will come back."

 

[Kryten]

I think he either underestimates FOTA hugely, or is well aware of what they are capable of and is severely playing it down. FOTA have the ability to take more away from F1 than Mosley and Ecclestone could possibly imagine/currently own/manage.

Who do I feel most sorry for? Codemasters and their F1 2010 game

 

[ECA]

List of stuff new formula requires:


Track Negotiations.
Technical Regulations ( founding a new governing body ).
Race governance
commercialisation ( TV rights, sponsorship ) - THIS IS HUGE F1 will have several multi-year contracts in place and they will have to convince 100+ countries TV organisations that they should get the money instead.


INTERNAL FINANCIAL DEBATE ( Will Ferrari demand more money from the new formula or will they take an even cut? ).


With reduced income can the teams survive 5 years without the level of income they currently get?

Driver contracts
Legal obligations for entry to F1 ( can you say INJUNCTION ).


Financial caps to get enough teams not to look as retarded as the last American Grand Prix?

If they dont have financial caps it will be 8 teams only 2-3 will go bust, the series will be deader than a belgian hooker post-swaffle if they only have 5 teams running.

If they DO have financial caps they have to be low enough to get other teams to enter....while suffering from lower revenue ( lower than they are getting now ). Which makes the whole thing redundant anyway.....

 

[Embattle]

It isn't over yet either way, this is just FOTA playing its final hand and it is fully understandable that you can't just introduce such a spending reduction in such a short period of time.